1999 SL2

I have a four door 1999 Saturn SL2 Automatic that just recently started
having electrical issues. About two months ago was driving in extreme heat,
shut off to fill with gas, and would not restart. After sitting in shade for
about an hour (jump did no good battery fine) it restarted and made it home
and then died again. Helpful mechanic diagnosed it with testing meter to be
Relay switch--and we replaced the main one and the one that controlls the AC
to be safe (and even bought two spare just in case). Ran great for about a
month. Then another scorcher....died....remote keys/alarm would not
work/radio would not work/car would not start/ headlights work/interior
light works/dash lights come on when try to start.....no fix when change out
relay switches.....Let car sit for 2-3 hours....started and ran fine for 1-2
weeks (but radio/clock all reset)

Happened again today...very hot and humid...all above symptoms...towed
home....called mechanic and described...he wants me to research too as he's
stumped. Luckily home and so is car...and can borrow if can...research
seeming to say to start with Crank Position Sensor? Does this sound posible?
I'm sure it will be tough to test as by the time he can look at it, it will
probably start again...and I do not have much knowledge or meters...I just
need advice to help point him and not empty my bank. Any/all help will be
GREATLY appreciated!!!
Thanks

Please describe the "no start" symptom and the "car died" symptom too. We
have no idea based on what you wrote if the starter turns over the engine or
not and at what speed and engine RPM it died. Did it stall out while at
idle or completely cut out at 55MPH? It also would be useful to provide the
vehicle mileage, battery age, maintenance history and any recent maintenance
performed, etc.

The bottom line is that the better and more detailed your description, the
better the advice and discussion you will generate on this newsgroup.

Bob

"John" > wrote in message
sburylight...
>I have a four door 1999 Saturn SL2 Automatic that just recently started
>having electrical issues. About two months ago was driving in extreme heat,
>shut off to fill with gas, and would not restart. After sitting in shade
>for about an hour (jump did no good battery fine) it restarted and made it
>home and then died again. Helpful mechanic diagnosed it with testing meter
>to be Relay switch--and we replaced the main one and the one that controlls
>the AC to be safe (and even bought two spare just in case). Ran great for
>about a month. Then another scorcher....died....remote keys/alarm would not
>work/radio would not work/car would not start/ headlights work/interior
>light works/dash lights come on when try to start.....no fix when change
>out relay switches.....Let car sit for 2-3 hours....started and ran fine
>for 1-2 weeks (but radio/clock all reset)
>
> Happened again today...very hot and humid...all above symptoms...towed
> home....called mechanic and described...he wants me to research too as
> he's stumped. Luckily home and so is car...and can borrow if
> can...research seeming to say to start with Crank Position Sensor? Does
> this sound posible? I'm sure it will be tough to test as by the time he
> can look at it, it will probably start again...and I do not have much
> knowledge or meters...I just need advice to help point him and not empty
> my bank. Any/all help will be GREATLY appreciated!!!
> Thanks

When I mean no start I mean completely dead. Started doesn't even click. It
doesn't start only after the car has been hut off and it is very hot and
humid out. If it is running it runs fine. This only happen when the car is
turned off. I had a mechanic test the fuses and relays under the hood and on
the passenger side consol. On the Passengers console he gound the ignition
relay was dead. Replaced it and started right up. Worked great for a month
and the next hot (over 90) and humid day it did it again, only to start a
few hours later. Two weeks after that (yesterday) Hot and very humid it
again did it. Replaced the relay with a new one but nothing. Wouldn't
restart last night after sitting 10 hours.
The car has 67,000 miles, a/c power locks factor "alarm"(horn beeper) and
key fob remote. When it is in this state, the headlights and daytime running
lights work. The remote does not. Will not unlock anything or sound off
horn. Radio is dead and when you restart the car the radio is reset to
factory. No work has been done on this car recently as we have not had any
problems ever with it.
"Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
...
> Please describe the "no start" symptom and the "car died" symptom too. We
> have no idea based on what you wrote if the starter turns over the engine
> or not and at what speed and engine RPM it died. Did it stall out while
> at idle or completely cut out at 55MPH? It also would be useful to
> provide the vehicle mileage, battery age, maintenance history and any
> recent maintenance performed, etc.
>
> The bottom line is that the better and more detailed your description, the
> better the advice and discussion you will generate on this newsgroup.
>
> Bob
>
> "John" > wrote in message
> sburylight...
>>I have a four door 1999 Saturn SL2 Automatic that just recently started
>>having electrical issues. About two months ago was driving in extreme
>>heat, shut off to fill with gas, and would not restart. After sitting in
>>shade for about an hour (jump did no good battery fine) it restarted and
>>made it home and then died again. Helpful mechanic diagnosed it with
>>testing meter to be Relay switch--and we replaced the main one and the one
>>that controlls the AC to be safe (and even bought two spare just in case).
>>Ran great for about a month. Then another scorcher....died....remote
>>keys/alarm would not work/radio would not work/car would not start/
>>headlights work/interior light works/dash lights come on when try to
>>start.....no fix when change out relay switches.....Let car sit for 2-3
>>hours....started and ran fine for 1-2 weeks (but radio/clock all reset)
>>
>> Happened again today...very hot and humid...all above symptoms...towed
>> home....called mechanic and described...he wants me to research too as
>> he's stumped. Luckily home and so is car...and can borrow if
>> can...research seeming to say to start with Crank Position Sensor? Does
>> this sound posible? I'm sure it will be tough to test as by the time he
>> can look at it, it will probably start again...and I do not have much
>> knowledge or meters...I just need advice to help point him and not empty
>> my bank. Any/all help will be GREATLY appreciated!!!
>> Thanks
>
>

I had something very mildly like this, but in a different car that turn out
to be a short in a "going bad" starter... When the starter was hot (or just
hot / humid outside), when you turned the key to try start it, it would
short out and pop fuses on me. (But for me, it also ground out the battery
and I ended up having to eventually replace that too as battery's tend not
to like that happening to them too many times before they crap out...) I
replaced the starter (and the battery soon after that) and was fine...Not
sure this is your issue, but you might try there if no one else has any
thoughts for you...

Good Luck

IYM

"John" > wrote in message
sburylight...
> When I mean no start I mean completely dead. Started doesn't even click.
> It doesn't start only after the car has been hut off and it is very hot
> and humid out. If it is running it runs fine. This only happen when the
> car is turned off. I had a mechanic test the fuses and relays under the
> hood and on the passenger side consol. On the Passengers console he gound
> the ignition relay was dead. Replaced it and started right up. Worked
> great for a month and the next hot (over 90) and humid day it did it
> again, only to start a few hours later. Two weeks after that (yesterday)
> Hot and very humid it again did it. Replaced the relay with a new one but
> nothing. Wouldn't restart last night after sitting 10 hours.
> The car has 67,000 miles, a/c power locks factor "alarm"(horn beeper) and
> key fob remote. When it is in this state, the headlights and daytime
> running lights work. The remote does not. Will not unlock anything or
> sound off horn. Radio is dead and when you restart the car the radio is
> reset to factory. No work has been done on this car recently as we have
> not had any problems ever with it.
> "Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Please describe the "no start" symptom and the "car died" symptom too.
>> We have no idea based on what you wrote if the starter turns over the
>> engine or not and at what speed and engine RPM it died. Did it stall out
>> while at idle or completely cut out at 55MPH? It also would be useful to
>> provide the vehicle mileage, battery age, maintenance history and any
>> recent maintenance performed, etc.
>>
>> The bottom line is that the better and more detailed your description,
>> the better the advice and discussion you will generate on this newsgroup.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> "John" > wrote in message
>> sburylight...
>>>I have a four door 1999 Saturn SL2 Automatic that just recently started
>>>having electrical issues. About two months ago was driving in extreme
>>>heat, shut off to fill with gas, and would not restart. After sitting in
>>>shade for about an hour (jump did no good battery fine) it restarted and
>>>made it home and then died again. Helpful mechanic diagnosed it with
>>>testing meter to be Relay switch--and we replaced the main one and the
>>>one that controlls the AC to be safe (and even bought two spare just in
>>>case). Ran great for about a month. Then another
>>>scorcher....died....remote keys/alarm would not work/radio would not
>>>work/car would not start/ headlights work/interior light works/dash
>>>lights come on when try to start.....no fix when change out relay
>>>switches.....Let car sit for 2-3 hours....started and ran fine for 1-2
>>>weeks (but radio/clock all reset)
>>>
>>> Happened again today...very hot and humid...all above symptoms...towed
>>> home....called mechanic and described...he wants me to research too as
>>> he's stumped. Luckily home and so is car...and can borrow if
>>> can...research seeming to say to start with Crank Position Sensor? Does
>>> this sound posible? I'm sure it will be tough to test as by the time he
>>> can look at it, it will probably start again...and I do not have much
>>> knowledge or meters...I just need advice to help point him and not empty
>>> my bank. Any/all help will be GREATLY appreciated!!!
>>> Thanks
>>
>>
>
>

In article ylight>, "John" > wrote:

>Radio is dead and when you restart the car the radio is reset to
>factory.

Almost 100% certain indication that somehow the battery has become
disconnected. You probably have a loose or corroded connection at one of the
battery terminals, or at the opposite end of the negative battery cable.

In article >, (Doug Miller) wrote:
>In article ylight>, "John"
> > wrote:
>
>>Radio is dead and when you restart the car the radio is reset to
>>factory.
>
>Almost 100% certain indication that somehow the battery has become
>disconnected. You probably have a loose or corroded connection at one of the
>battery terminals, or at the opposite end of the negative battery cable.

Forgot to mention -- this could also be caused by a defective battery (loose
internal connection, between the post and plate, for example). Do you have
another car you could switch batteries with for a week or two?

Also check your battery cables while you're at it. Not likely to be the cause,
but a visual inspection for damage takes only a minute.

Doug,

These were my initial thoughts as well since they are very common issues,
but neither would account for the car dying when it was already started and
running. (John has yet to provide any details on that failure mode...)

Bob

"Doug Miller" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>In article ylight>,
>>"John"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Radio is dead and when you restart the car the radio is reset to
>>>factory.
>>
>>Almost 100% certain indication that somehow the battery has become
>>disconnected. You probably have a loose or corroded connection at one of
>>the
>>battery terminals, or at the opposite end of the negative battery cable.
>
> Forgot to mention -- this could also be caused by a defective battery
> (loose
> internal connection, between the post and plate, for example). Do you have
> another car you could switch batteries with for a week or two?
>
> Also check your battery cables while you're at it. Not likely to be the
> cause,
> but a visual inspection for damage takes only a minute.

In article >, "Bob Shuman" > wrote:
>Doug,
>
>These were my initial thoughts as well since they are very common issues,
>but neither would account for the car dying when it was already started and
>running. (John has yet to provide any details on that failure mode...)

Negative battery cable becoming disconnected certainly does cause the car to
die while running. Some cars, anyway -- it's happened to me twice. Not on
either of my Saturns, though...
>
> Bob
>
>"Doug Miller" > wrote in message
. ..
>> In article >,
>> (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>>In article ylight>,
>>>"John"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Radio is dead and when you restart the car the radio is reset to
>>>>factory.
>>>
>>>Almost 100% certain indication that somehow the battery has become
>>>disconnected. You probably have a loose or corroded connection at one of
>>>the
>>>battery terminals, or at the opposite end of the negative battery cable.
>>
>> Forgot to mention -- this could also be caused by a defective battery
>> (loose
>> internal connection, between the post and plate, for example). Do you have
>> another car you could switch batteries with for a week or two?
>>
>> Also check your battery cables while you're at it. Not likely to be the
>> cause,
>> but a visual inspection for damage takes only a minute.
>
>

It has never died when running. It runs fine once it has started. After you
have turned it off it does this. I thought I had said that once it runs it
runs and doesn't die

"Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
...
> Doug,
>
> These were my initial thoughts as well since they are very common issues,
> but neither would account for the car dying when it was already started
> and running. (John has yet to provide any details on that failure
> mode...)
>
> Bob
>
> "Doug Miller" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>>In article ylight>,
>>>"John"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Radio is dead and when you restart the car the radio is reset to
>>>>factory.
>>>
>>>Almost 100% certain indication that somehow the battery has become
>>>disconnected. You probably have a loose or corroded connection at one of
>>>the
>>>battery terminals, or at the opposite end of the negative battery cable.
>>
>> Forgot to mention -- this could also be caused by a defective battery
>> (loose
>> internal connection, between the post and plate, for example). Do you
>> have
>> another car you could switch batteries with for a week or two?
>>
>> Also check your battery cables while you're at it. Not likely to be the
>> cause,
>> but a visual inspection for damage takes only a minute.
>
>

Thoroughly clean the battery posts and cable connectors and then re-tighten
them. Also check to make sure the cables themselves are good and that the
connection at he starter is also good. As good measure, you can also remove
and clean all connections to the chassis and engine grounds too. If it then
acts up again, you will know it is either the battery (Car should start off
jump fine then) or a problem in the starting system (the starter, starter
solenoid, starter relay, or ignition key switch).

Good luck. Intermittent problems are a PITA to diagnose ...

Bob


"John" > wrote in message
sburylight...
> It has never died when running. It runs fine once it has started. After
> you have turned it off it does this. I thought I had said that once it
> runs it runs and doesn't die
>
> "Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Doug,
>>
>> These were my initial thoughts as well since they are very common issues,
>> but neither would account for the car dying when it was already started
>> and running. (John has yet to provide any details on that failure
>> mode...)
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> "Doug Miller" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article >,
>>> (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>>>In article ylight>,
>>>>"John"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Radio is dead and when you restart the car the radio is reset to
>>>>>factory.
>>>>
>>>>Almost 100% certain indication that somehow the battery has become
>>>>disconnected. You probably have a loose or corroded connection at one of
>>>>the
>>>>battery terminals, or at the opposite end of the negative battery cable.
>>>
>>> Forgot to mention -- this could also be caused by a defective battery
>>> (loose
>>> internal connection, between the post and plate, for example). Do you
>>> have
>>> another car you could switch batteries with for a week or two?
>>>
>>> Also check your battery cables while you're at it. Not likely to be the
>>> cause,
>>> but a visual inspection for damage takes only a minute.
>>
>>
>
>