4x4 Stolen

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:06:20 -0500, DragonRider
> wrote:


>>Also, when you get two sets of keys, third stays with the dealer -
>What fantasy land do you live in? The dealerships do not keep a 3rd
>set of keys unless you are shopping at buy-here/pay-here places!
>That's one of the more hilarious things I've read today. Thanks for
>waking me up.
>
You're partially correct. If the car is financed, they usually keep
the key code knockouts/tags. That allows any locksmith worth
his salt to generate a set on one of the code machines. If you
think you've got all the keys and codes, you're living in a fantasy
world. About the only really secure way to keep your car is to
buy the microchip security devices and then add a key, which
recodes the car's computer. They can still get in and disable it
by taking the maximum number of tries. Then you need to have
it towed to get the thing restarted.

Dick Burg

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:21:01 +0200, "Peter" >
wrote:

>
>I AFAIK
>this is not the case in US. I've had to add/replace key for two different
>cars, and in both cases getting the correct chip in and coded properly was
>major PITA. I don't think any dealership would keep third microchip-coded
>key as it's just too complicated.
>
Many do these days. Both my Jeep and my wifes VW came with that
theft prevention feature. The discussion related to reposessions. If
you have the correct code cut, one of several things can happen. It
was specifically mentioned not to try the correct cut key wihtout the
microchip. On the third try, the ingition dies and the car must be
towed to a dealer. That takes it out of your hands. It doesn't mean
that the bank or finance company can find it, but you've got to pay.

Other cars have a valet key that allows the engine to start and run
in a limp mode. They can start it and park it, but it won't exceed a
very low speed. Not fast enough to be driven on the highway.

Once you know how to code the keys, its pretty easy. You buy the
chipped key and have it cut. The key costs about $40, cutting another
$3 or so. Then the dealer needs all the keys for that car. The car
then decides on a new code it wants to use. You must start the car
within a minute or so using each key. That codes the keys to the
car (I'm not ruling out the possibility that other cars code the car.)
The limitiation on the number is how many you can do in the allotted
time span. I think my 2003 DC Jeep is limited to 3 only.

Dick Burg

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:21:01 +0200, "Peter" >
wrote:

>
>I AFAIK
>this is not the case in US. I've had to add/replace key for two different
>cars, and in both cases getting the correct chip in and coded properly was
>major PITA. I don't think any dealership would keep third microchip-coded
>key as it's just too complicated.
>
Many do these days. Both my Jeep and my wifes VW came with that
theft prevention feature. The discussion related to reposessions. If
you have the correct code cut, one of several things can happen. It
was specifically mentioned not to try the correct cut key wihtout the
microchip. On the third try, the ingition dies and the car must be
towed to a dealer. That takes it out of your hands. It doesn't mean
that the bank or finance company can find it, but you've got to pay.

Other cars have a valet key that allows the engine to start and run
in a limp mode. They can start it and park it, but it won't exceed a
very low speed. Not fast enough to be driven on the highway.

Once you know how to code the keys, its pretty easy. You buy the
chipped key and have it cut. The key costs about $40, cutting another
$3 or so. Then the dealer needs all the keys for that car. The car
then decides on a new code it wants to use. You must start the car
within a minute or so using each key. That codes the keys to the
car (I'm not ruling out the possibility that other cars code the car.)
The limitiation on the number is how many you can do in the allotted
time span. I think my 2003 DC Jeep is limited to 3 only.

Dick Burg

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:10:05 GMT, Dick Burg wrote:

>On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:06:20 -0500, DragonRider
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Also, when you get two sets of keys, third stays with the dealer -
>>What fantasy land do you live in? The dealerships do not keep a 3rd
>>set of keys unless you are shopping at buy-here/pay-here places!
>>That's one of the more hilarious things I've read today. Thanks for
>>waking me up.
>>
>You're partially correct. If the car is financed, they usually keep
>the key code knockouts/tags. That allows any locksmith worth
>his salt to generate a set on one of the code machines. If you
>think you've got all the keys and codes, you're living in a fantasy
>world. About the only really secure way to keep your car is to
>buy the microchip security devices and then add a key, which
>recodes the car's computer. They can still get in and disable it
>by taking the maximum number of tries. Then you need to have
>it towed to get the thing restarted.

Hmm.. I've been working in auto sales for the last few years and I
can't recall ONE time we ever had to send a third set of keys to any
finance company. Besides, once the car is financed we have no
interest in the vehicle at all (give or take a few 30 day
recision/recourse periods). Unless you are outside the US or have
some area where the majority are going to be repo's, or perhaps you
work for a buy-here/pay-here dealership the above just isn't going to
happen. Besides, finance companies don't go out and get your car.
They hire a repo company who just pulls up, drags it onto a flatbed,
calls and reports it to the Sheriff's Office (my former job, btw), and
then takes it to impound. ONLY the buy-here/pay-here places tend to
keep an extra key when they know they are likely to have to come get
it. Also a few title pawn places (which are being phased out fast) may
require it as part of the collateral on the loan.

A new car dealership? Not one reason to do that. Especially if they
want to keep their reputations intact.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:10:05 GMT, Dick Burg wrote:

>On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:06:20 -0500, DragonRider
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Also, when you get two sets of keys, third stays with the dealer -
>>What fantasy land do you live in? The dealerships do not keep a 3rd
>>set of keys unless you are shopping at buy-here/pay-here places!
>>That's one of the more hilarious things I've read today. Thanks for
>>waking me up.
>>
>You're partially correct. If the car is financed, they usually keep
>the key code knockouts/tags. That allows any locksmith worth
>his salt to generate a set on one of the code machines. If you
>think you've got all the keys and codes, you're living in a fantasy
>world. About the only really secure way to keep your car is to
>buy the microchip security devices and then add a key, which
>recodes the car's computer. They can still get in and disable it
>by taking the maximum number of tries. Then you need to have
>it towed to get the thing restarted.

Hmm.. I've been working in auto sales for the last few years and I
can't recall ONE time we ever had to send a third set of keys to any
finance company. Besides, once the car is financed we have no
interest in the vehicle at all (give or take a few 30 day
recision/recourse periods). Unless you are outside the US or have
some area where the majority are going to be repo's, or perhaps you
work for a buy-here/pay-here dealership the above just isn't going to
happen. Besides, finance companies don't go out and get your car.
They hire a repo company who just pulls up, drags it onto a flatbed,
calls and reports it to the Sheriff's Office (my former job, btw), and
then takes it to impound. ONLY the buy-here/pay-here places tend to
keep an extra key when they know they are likely to have to come get
it. Also a few title pawn places (which are being phased out fast) may
require it as part of the collateral on the loan.

A new car dealership? Not one reason to do that. Especially if they
want to keep their reputations intact.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:10:05 GMT, Dick Burg wrote:

>On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:06:20 -0500, DragonRider
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Also, when you get two sets of keys, third stays with the dealer -
>>What fantasy land do you live in? The dealerships do not keep a 3rd
>>set of keys unless you are shopping at buy-here/pay-here places!
>>That's one of the more hilarious things I've read today. Thanks for
>>waking me up.
>>
>You're partially correct. If the car is financed, they usually keep
>the key code knockouts/tags. That allows any locksmith worth
>his salt to generate a set on one of the code machines. If you
>think you've got all the keys and codes, you're living in a fantasy
>world. About the only really secure way to keep your car is to
>buy the microchip security devices and then add a key, which
>recodes the car's computer. They can still get in and disable it
>by taking the maximum number of tries. Then you need to have
>it towed to get the thing restarted.

Btw, if they DO have to have them started all the repo guy needs is
the vin#. Take that to a dealership along with an order of reposession
signed by the lienholder (bank) and the dealership can find the key
code, cut the key, and off ya go. They just can't program it
remotely.

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:10:05 GMT, Dick Burg wrote:

>On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:06:20 -0500, DragonRider
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Also, when you get two sets of keys, third stays with the dealer -
>>What fantasy land do you live in? The dealerships do not keep a 3rd
>>set of keys unless you are shopping at buy-here/pay-here places!
>>That's one of the more hilarious things I've read today. Thanks for
>>waking me up.
>>
>You're partially correct. If the car is financed, they usually keep
>the key code knockouts/tags. That allows any locksmith worth
>his salt to generate a set on one of the code machines. If you
>think you've got all the keys and codes, you're living in a fantasy
>world. About the only really secure way to keep your car is to
>buy the microchip security devices and then add a key, which
>recodes the car's computer. They can still get in and disable it
>by taking the maximum number of tries. Then you need to have
>it towed to get the thing restarted.

Btw, if they DO have to have them started all the repo guy needs is
the vin#. Take that to a dealership along with an order of reposession
signed by the lienholder (bank) and the dealership can find the key
code, cut the key, and off ya go. They just can't program it
remotely.