red light cameras: products to avoid them??

Don Stauffer wrote:
>
> Mike wrote:
> > Har har, you guys are real funny. Maybe when you guys get a $75 ticket
> > for quote/unquote 'running' a red light by .2 seconds in the rain, I'll
> > help you figure out how to prevent it. Or maybe you have tons of money
> > to burn, and don't have to worry about incidents such as this.
> >
> > Whatever, thanks for your help.
> >
>
> Well, I've been driving for 49 years without a red light ticket. So I'd
> say the odds of anyone getting one because of an unintentional slip up
> are low. If the odds are one or two per lifetime, then 75 or 150
> bucks, compared to other costs of a lifetime of driving are minor, and I
> can sure live with it.
>
> If you get LOTS of these tickets, I'd guess that there is a message there.

I bet you'd get some tickets if the yellow timing was set so short
that you would only have 2/3 of a second to decide to apply
the brakes and make a maximum force stop in order to avoid
running a red light.

JazzMan

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On 24 Jun 2005 14:27:24 -0700, "Mike" > wrote:

>Har har, you guys are real funny. Maybe when you guys get a $75 ticket
>for quote/unquote 'running' a red light by .2 seconds in the rain,

Um, it'd probably be a bit wiser to SLOW DOWN in the rain, so running
a red light would be impossible (or nearly so, )

> I'll
>help you figure out how to prevent it. Or maybe you have tons of money
>to burn, and don't have to worry about incidents such as this.
>
>Whatever, thanks for your help.

Naw, I jjust don't drive so fast in the rain that I can't stop.

-LMB

I can take anyone right now to an intersection where the speed limit is 25,
the light is dead on 3.0 seconds and the intersection is 100 feet from the
stop line to the other side crossing an opposing three lanes of high-speed
traffic
..
Doing the math it gives a person 0.22 seconds when yellow starts (if your
right at the line when it changes) to decide whether to stop or not.
Making it worse, is an obstructed view of oncoming 'one way' traffic from
the right side.
So even if you keep going, before you can get all the way across, anyone
blowing through a green light the instant it changes (its instant) will hit
the person who decided not to stop for a sudden yellow. Dont ask me how I
know....


"Louis M. Brown" > wrote in message
...
> On 24 Jun 2005 14:27:24 -0700, "Mike" > wrote:
>
> >Har har, you guys are real funny. Maybe when you guys get a $75 ticket
> >for quote/unquote 'running' a red light by .2 seconds in the rain,
>
> Um, it'd probably be a bit wiser to SLOW DOWN in the rain, so running
> a red light would be impossible (or nearly so, )
>
> > I'll
> >help you figure out how to prevent it. Or maybe you have tons of money
> >to burn, and don't have to worry about incidents such as this.
> >
> >Whatever, thanks for your help.
>
> Naw, I jjust don't drive so fast in the rain that I can't stop.
>
> -LMB
>

JazzMan wrote:
> Don Stauffer wrote:
>
>>Mike wrote:
>>
>>>Har har, you guys are real funny. Maybe when you guys get a $75 ticket
>>>for quote/unquote 'running' a red light by .2 seconds in the rain, I'll
>>>help you figure out how to prevent it. Or maybe you have tons of money
>>>to burn, and don't have to worry about incidents such as this.
>>>
>>>Whatever, thanks for your help.
>>>
>>
>>Well, I've been driving for 49 years without a red light ticket. So I'd
>>say the odds of anyone getting one because of an unintentional slip up
>>are low. If the odds are one or two per lifetime, then 75 or 150
>>bucks, compared to other costs of a lifetime of driving are minor, and I
>>can sure live with it.
>>
>>If you get LOTS of these tickets, I'd guess that there is a message there.
>
>
> I bet you'd get some tickets if the yellow timing was set so short
> that you would only have 2/3 of a second to decide to apply
> the brakes and make a maximum force stop in order to avoid
> running a red light.
>
> JazzMan
>
Well, then there must not be many lights set like that in midwestern US.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005, Don Stauffer wrote:

> >>Well, I've been driving for 49 years without a red light ticket.

> > I bet you'd get some tickets if the yellow timing was set so short
> > that you would only have 2/3 of a second to decide to apply
> > the brakes and make a maximum force stop in order to avoid
> > running a red light.

> Well, then there must not be many lights set like that in midwestern US.

Not yet, there aren't. Wait til red light cameras spread in earnest in
your location and you'll get a quick firsthand lesson in the primacy of
yellow-light duration in determining red-light crashes.

Never heard of the concept of a "stale green" light have you? FYI that
is a light that is green when you first see it. If you talk to a driving
instructor one of the things they will tell you is to watch for a stale
green light AND BE PREPARED TO STOP. Another item that is also covered
is the fact that IF your vehicle is already in an intersection and the
light turns Yellow or Red YOU have control of that intersection.
So if your at your stated intersection, you entered it BEFORE the yellow
light and the light turns red while you are going through that
intersection, IF someone hits you THEY are at fault, not you, also if
you were given a ticket and go to court over it any lawyer could get it
dropped. As for getting hit because someone else jumped the green, It
does happen, they are still at fault though if the vehicle they hit was
in the intersection prior to them receiving the green light.

NYS V&T Law.
A driver approaching an intersection must yield the right-of-way to
traffic already lawfully using the intersection.

Example: You are nearing an intersection. The traffic light is green,
and you want to drive straight through. Another vehicle is already in
the intersection, turning left. You must let that vehicle complete its
turn before you enter the intersection.



--
Steve Williams


"ed" > wrote in message
news:Wimve.1245$xL1.1190@trnddc08...
> I can take anyone right now to an intersection where the speed limit
is 25,
> the light is dead on 3.0 seconds and the intersection is 100 feet from
the
> stop line to the other side crossing an opposing three lanes of
high-speed
> traffic
> .
> Doing the math it gives a person 0.22 seconds when yellow starts (if
your
> right at the line when it changes) to decide whether to stop or not.
> Making it worse, is an obstructed view of oncoming 'one way' traffic
from
> the right side.
> So even if you keep going, before you can get all the way across,
anyone
> blowing through a green light the instant it changes (its instant)
will hit
> the person who decided not to stop for a sudden yellow. Dont ask me
how I
> know....
>
>
> "Louis M. Brown" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 24 Jun 2005 14:27:24 -0700, "Mike" > wrote:
> >
> > >Har har, you guys are real funny. Maybe when you guys get a $75
ticket
> > >for quote/unquote 'running' a red light by .2 seconds in the rain,
> >
> > Um, it'd probably be a bit wiser to SLOW DOWN in the rain, so
running
> > a red light would be impossible (or nearly so, )
> >
> > > I'll
> > >help you figure out how to prevent it. Or maybe you have tons of
money
> > >to burn, and don't have to worry about incidents such as this.
> > >
> > >Whatever, thanks for your help.
> >
> > Naw, I jjust don't drive so fast in the rain that I can't stop.
> >
> > -LMB
> >
>
>
>



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"Steve W." > wrote in message
...
>
>
> NYS V&T Law.
> A driver approaching an intersection must yield the right-of-way to
> traffic already lawfully using the intersection.
>
> Example: You are nearing an intersection. The traffic light is green,
> and you want to drive straight through. Another vehicle is already in
> the intersection, turning left. You must let that vehicle complete its
> turn before you enter the intersection.
>

In Oregon they go by the stop line, if your front tires are over the
stop line before the light changes red, your OK.

I've only got 1 photo red light ticket, I was approaching an intersection
and the light changed to yellow, I started slowing down then at
the last minute decided I had enough time to make it though and
didn't stop. Bad choice. I would have been OK if I had hit the
gas instead of slowing.

But there is a very simple way to defeat a red light ticket, at least in
this state. You have to be married, though. What you do is for
the car that you usually drive, you change the title to read only your
wife's name, and for the car that she normally drives, you change the
title to read only your name. This of course is meaningless from a
legal property standpoint in most states, but it does work for
photo tickets.

When they capture the image, they will of course address the ticket
to the wrong person - which is obvious as the sex of the person
will be wrong, then you can just claim that you wern't
the driver and the ticket is dismissed. In Oregon, they do ask you
to rat on the person that was driving, my wife did on me when
she got ticketed for me going through the red light, but they
don't do anything to the actual lawbreaker as a result.

This trick probably won't work that well for the gay couples, though. ;-)

Oregon actually does the photo cameras the right way, in my opinion.
What they do is they post warning signs that the intersection is photo
ticketed, and the cameras are prominently visible. But, many of the
intersections that are posted this way are, in fact, dummies, there's no
actual camera there. As a result, you never know when your approaching
one of these whether they have swapped the dummy head that week
with a camera head (which happens every once in a while) so the
deterrence effect is just as useful, and the county doesen't have to spend
much money on a lot of cameras.

The best advice is to just stop on a yellow on those photo ticketed
intersections.

Ted

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> What they do is they post warning signs that the intersection is photo
> ticketed, and the cameras are prominently visible. But, many of the
> intersections that are posted this way are, in fact, dummies, there's no
> actual camera there. As a result, you never know when your approaching
> one of these whether they have swapped the dummy head that week
> with a camera head (which happens every once in a while) so the
> deterrence effect is just as useful, and the county doesen't have to spend
> much money on a lot of cameras.

Oh, I don't know. Given typical government waste on 'clever' ideas
like this, I bet the savings aren't that great. Just guessing here,
but:

Typical intersection installation cost, working system -- $275,000

Typical intersection installation cost, dummy system -- $269,999

Toyota MDT in MO

In article <jp2ve.1975$Uc2.1677@trnddc03>, says...
>
>
>Theres a spray which makes your license plate super reflective whereas the
>camera will blind itself from its own flash thus making your plate appear
>washed out or overexposed.

What about during the day when there is no flash? Has anyone actually tested
this miracle spray or are they just repeating the manufacturers advertising
hype?

>Another product is a lens which covers your plate so it is visible straight
>on but at angles parts of the numbers blacked out. I got a $50 ticket for
>having this on my car fro obscuring my plate!.

I know that in NY state any cover, even plain old clear plastic with no
pretension of defeating red light cameras, is illegal.

>In my city they have the yellow times set .1 second below federal guidelines
>and a lot of us got off. The guidelines are 3.0-6.0 seconds of yellow time.

How did you figuer that out? .1 second is an awfully short period of time
to try to time by hand.

>You wont get off the ticket even if you move out of the way of an ambulance.
>Seen it.

Here in NYC moving for an emergency vehicle is a valid excuse. You still have
to waste a day of your time going to the 'court' to take care of this.

>You also should get used to the idea of making yellow your color of choice
>for stopping in addition to red.

This is often impractical.

>Sure you'll get ass-ended one of these
>times, but you'll not be at fault for stopping.

I rather be wrong and not in accident than being right and getting rear ended.

>There are other products like a system that flashes back. The red light
>camera guys have made flashless cameras to defeat all that.

Again, I don't see this working during daytime hours.

>You could program your GPS to remind you your approaching an intersection
>with one of those cameras or learn to get good with a paintball gun.

Interesting idea.

----------------
Alex

In article >, says...

> To maximise their profits, the equipment
>maker has the city sign a legally binding contract that orders
>the city traffic engineers to turn the yellow light timing
>down to the minimum allowed by law/code/ordinance.

Do you have any proof of this? I can see this contract being used against
the red light camera owners by someone who get rear ended at a red light.
They can't be so stupid as to put something like that into a contract.
-------------------
Alex