Why MS Windows Should NOT be in BMWs

http://www.infosecnews.com/news/inde...&newsType=News

"ted" > wrote in message
news:ruYJd.1801$1X.507@lakeread07...
> http://www.infosecnews.com/news/inde...&newsType=News

I don't get it. What does that article have to do with MS Windows?

"Remove Underscores" > haute in die Tasten:

> I don't get it. What does that article have to do with MS Windows?
>

Nothing. I'd rather say that Kaspersky Labs tries to persuade buyers of
mobile devices of any kind to buy some anti-virus software for them,
too. Actually I do not get the point why there should be any virus
threat to navi software. Usually the application data are either stored
read-oly on a CD, or they are backed up by a desktop PC (if you use a
PDA for navigation) or they are delivered online from a remote server,
if you use dynamic navigation via Cellphone.

I have head several alarms on attacking mobile devices via Bluetooth,
but I never found an actual damage report.

BTW: In the 90's BMW installed huge displays in the Silicone Valley,
showing the brand new BMW E36 convertible with top down and saying:
"Our hardware runs better without windows!" IIRC the onboard software
for the I-Drive system in the E60 is based on WinCE, but this may also
be an urban legend - when I played around with this system, I did not
find any hint for a Microsoft origin.

Frank

--
please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact

Citroen - Made in Trance

BMW's iDrive system is based on Microsoft Windows. And in the future
automotive computerization is only going to be more ubiquitous ... can you
say drive-by-wire. Computers will control steering, acceleration, braking
and ALL other automotive systems.



Now along comes some teenage hacker who reverse engineers these computer
systems and creates the BMW virus. He uploads it to your car as you pass him
on the freeway using the WiFi setup that’s now standard on all new cars. All
of a sudden the computer controlled actuators that manage your car's
steering, acceleration and braking get taken for a ride by this virus.



Microsoft Windows has too poor a track record on security to be used in
motor vehicles.



BMW needs to use an OS that has a more reliable history, such as QNX. QNX is
a great operating system made for embedded, real time applications. You'll
find QNX in routers, you'll find it in medical devices, and you'll find it
in nuclear power plants. QNX is used to guide a laser over someone's eye for
Lasik and other such procedures a thousand times a year without a glitch.



Sorry for the rant.


"ted" > wrote in message
news:ruYJd.1801$1X.507@lakeread07...
> http://www.infosecnews.com/news/inde...&newsType=News
>

"ted" > wrote
> BMW's iDrive system is based on Microsoft Windows. And in the future
> automotive computerization is only going to be more ubiquitous ... can you
> say drive-by-wire. Computers will control steering, acceleration, braking
> and ALL other automotive systems.
>
> BMW needs to use an OS that has a more reliable history, such as QNX. QNX
> is a great operating system made for embedded, real time applications.
> You'll find QNX in routers, you'll find it in medical devices, and you'll
> find it in nuclear power plants. QNX is used to guide a laser over
> someone's eye for Lasik and other such procedures a thousand times a year
> without a glitch.

You are confusing the OS with the application. QNX is *not* used to
guide the laser. An application running under QNX is guiding it, using
drivers embedded in the system.

The nav and other functions run on the Embedded Windows OS.

In addition, the Embedded Win OS has so little code in common
with Win95/etc that you cannot compare the two. By the same token,
you can't compare the original Mac OS (which is, IME, about as
buggy and crash-prone as WinX) to the current OSX.

BTW, there was a big rant thread about this topic last year, why
don't you go there and review it before you repeat arguments that
most of us don't really care about.

Floyd

"ted" > wrote in message
newsrdKd.2438$1X.1545@lakeread07...
> BMW's iDrive system is based on Microsoft Windows.

That's correct in a very generous way. What is actually being used is CE for
Automotive. Based on, but different than, Windows CE. It is an abbreviated,
drill down, limited functionalities from CE. And it isn't the system that
operates the car. It only operates the i-Drive GUI.

> And in the future automotive computerization is only going to be more
> ubiquitous ... can you say drive-by-wire. Computers will control steering,
> acceleration, braking and ALL other automotive systems.

It's ubiquitous now. In some cars already controling all which you menton
above, and then some.

> Now along comes some teenage hacker who reverse engineers these computer
> systems and creates the BMW virus. He uploads it to your car as you pass
> him on the freeway using the WiFi setup that’s now standard on all new
> cars. All of a sudden the computer controlled actuators that manage your
> car's steering, acceleration and braking get taken for a ride by this
> virus.

An inaccurate scenario. There is so much software in so many cars now that
hackers have been trying for years to source vulnerabilities. The simple
truth is they don't exist in the scenario you suggest.

By the way, I have a 2004 BMW and it doesn't have a "WiFi setup", standard
or otherwise. I imagine this car would fall within your "on all new cars"
comment.

"ted" > haute in die Tasten:

> BMW's iDrive system is based on Microsoft Windows.

Do you have a source for that? When I playerd around for two hours with
the BMW Online package in the E65, no Micorsoft logo came into my view.

Frank

--
please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact

Citroen - Made in Trance

"Bradburn Fentress" > haute in die Tasten:

> By the way, I have a 2004 BMW and it doesn't have a "WiFi setup",
> standard or otherwise. I imagine this car would fall within your
> "on all new cars" comment.
>

When I tested the BMW Online system in a BMW 745i back in 2002 in
Germany, the car had a basic GSM dialup modem connection with poor 9,6
kbit/s bandwith. I asked the BMW guys why they did not make the system
GPRS compatible (approx. 50 kbit/s, permanent connection, traffic based
payment), and they told me that the development of wireless solutions
for cars require far more time than in the rest for the world due to
extensive testing for electro-magnetic conformity.

I doubt that it is easy to hack into a GSM dialup connection simply by
driving by such a vehicle.

Do they offer GPRS data connection by now?

Frank
--
please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact

Citroen - Made in Trance

"Frank Kemper" > wrote
> "ted" > haute in die Tasten:

>> BMW's iDrive system is based on Microsoft Windows.
>
> Do you have a source for that? When I playerd around for two hours with
> the BMW Online package in the E65, no Micorsoft logo came into my view.

google "microsoft idrive":
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...03-04BMWpr.asp

Floyd

"Frank Kemper" > wrote in message
...
> "ted" > haute in die Tasten:
>
>> BMW's iDrive system is based on Microsoft Windows.
>
> Do you have a source for that?

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...03-04BMWpr.asp