A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto makers » Chrysler
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Its the catalytic converter, stupid



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old October 18th 04, 08:11 AM
Ted Mittelstaedt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ted Azito" > wrote in message
om...
> "maxpower" > wrote in message

>...
> > Thats great!!! Im sure your kids will appreciate that in the yrs to
> > come..Dont forget , we didnt inherit this earth from our ansestors. we

are
> > borrowing it from our kids

>
> Auto emissions are only long term in terms of carbon dioxide. Carbon
> monoxide, and hydrocarbons are reduced to CO2 in a few hours in the
> atmosphere.


Of course, you forgot that when hydrocarbons are reduced to CO2 in
the atmosphere, this happens by combination with NoX, which produces
ozone, which is a serious pollutant in the lower atmosphere.

> Oxides of nitrogen may be a little more durable but not
> much.


Not true. In fact NoX emissions are the worst of all. At lower levels
they combine with hydrocarbons to produce ozone. In fact, if enough
sunlight is available the chemical reaction continually breaks apart
and puts back together the NoX molecules, this process continues
indefinitely, consuming hydrocarbons and spewing out ozone. As plants
produce a large number of hydrocarbons, introducing NoX into the
mix will create large amounts of ozone.

At higher levels in the atmosphere where there is higher solar energy
available,
and fewer to no hydrocarbons, the reaction is quite different, instead what
is consumed is ozone itself.

NoX is mostly removed from the atmosphere by rain, creating acid
rain.

> Cat converters are a cancer on the ass of America and produce
> only short term improvements, relevant only in cities like LA and
> Denver. Where I live emmissions control does nothing for average air
> quality except in a really bad traffic jam.
>


Not perhaps at ground level, however it does destroy the ozone layer in
the stratosphere. Why do you think incidence of skin cancer is so high
now?

> And I'm not worried about the federales whatsoever. The State guys
> could cause trouble but they have to prove I was the one who did it.
> Even so all they can do is make me fix it.


No, what they do is if your a shop and they think your doing this they
run a staged vehicle through your shop, and if it comes out with a punched
cat, then they give you a choice of either paying a fine or fixing it for
all
the customers they think you punched cats on.

If they keep getting reports that your still punching cats then the next
time
they run a staged vehicle through and it comes back punched, then they
don't bother giving you the option to fix the cats anymore, they just
fine you. And what your missing is that the very reason that this is an
administrative violation, is because the state doesen't have to meet the
burden of "beyond a reasonable doubt" if you try fighting it.

This is why speeding tickets aren't misdemeanors, didn't you know that?
The very reason that the states keep them administrative violations,
rather than actual criminal actions, is because as long as the ticket isn't
a crime, the accuser (the state) isn't legally required to prove anything.

You should talk to a few people someday that have been fined for
exceeding their fishing or hunting tags and see just how much the
state had to prove.

Also with the newer vehicles that have post-cat emissions sensors,
your never going to be able to get the check engine light to turn off,
which kind of limits your ability to resell the car.

Ted


Ads
  #12  
Old October 18th 04, 08:11 AM
Ted Mittelstaedt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ted Azito" > wrote in message
om...
> "maxpower" > wrote in message

>...
> > Thats great!!! Im sure your kids will appreciate that in the yrs to
> > come..Dont forget , we didnt inherit this earth from our ansestors. we

are
> > borrowing it from our kids

>
> Auto emissions are only long term in terms of carbon dioxide. Carbon
> monoxide, and hydrocarbons are reduced to CO2 in a few hours in the
> atmosphere.


Of course, you forgot that when hydrocarbons are reduced to CO2 in
the atmosphere, this happens by combination with NoX, which produces
ozone, which is a serious pollutant in the lower atmosphere.

> Oxides of nitrogen may be a little more durable but not
> much.


Not true. In fact NoX emissions are the worst of all. At lower levels
they combine with hydrocarbons to produce ozone. In fact, if enough
sunlight is available the chemical reaction continually breaks apart
and puts back together the NoX molecules, this process continues
indefinitely, consuming hydrocarbons and spewing out ozone. As plants
produce a large number of hydrocarbons, introducing NoX into the
mix will create large amounts of ozone.

At higher levels in the atmosphere where there is higher solar energy
available,
and fewer to no hydrocarbons, the reaction is quite different, instead what
is consumed is ozone itself.

NoX is mostly removed from the atmosphere by rain, creating acid
rain.

> Cat converters are a cancer on the ass of America and produce
> only short term improvements, relevant only in cities like LA and
> Denver. Where I live emmissions control does nothing for average air
> quality except in a really bad traffic jam.
>


Not perhaps at ground level, however it does destroy the ozone layer in
the stratosphere. Why do you think incidence of skin cancer is so high
now?

> And I'm not worried about the federales whatsoever. The State guys
> could cause trouble but they have to prove I was the one who did it.
> Even so all they can do is make me fix it.


No, what they do is if your a shop and they think your doing this they
run a staged vehicle through your shop, and if it comes out with a punched
cat, then they give you a choice of either paying a fine or fixing it for
all
the customers they think you punched cats on.

If they keep getting reports that your still punching cats then the next
time
they run a staged vehicle through and it comes back punched, then they
don't bother giving you the option to fix the cats anymore, they just
fine you. And what your missing is that the very reason that this is an
administrative violation, is because the state doesen't have to meet the
burden of "beyond a reasonable doubt" if you try fighting it.

This is why speeding tickets aren't misdemeanors, didn't you know that?
The very reason that the states keep them administrative violations,
rather than actual criminal actions, is because as long as the ticket isn't
a crime, the accuser (the state) isn't legally required to prove anything.

You should talk to a few people someday that have been fined for
exceeding their fishing or hunting tags and see just how much the
state had to prove.

Also with the newer vehicles that have post-cat emissions sensors,
your never going to be able to get the check engine light to turn off,
which kind of limits your ability to resell the car.

Ted


  #13  
Old October 18th 04, 08:31 PM
Ted Azito
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yes but I'm not a shop. And on later vehicles I'd get new firmware or
go to an aftermarket programmable ECU... or you build an analog sim to
put the postcat sensor input in acceptable parms. It's a voltage or
resistance, use a pot or build a little adjustable power supply (also,
basically, a pot.) I stay away from electronic vehicles for the most
part.
  #14  
Old October 18th 04, 08:31 PM
Ted Azito
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yes but I'm not a shop. And on later vehicles I'd get new firmware or
go to an aftermarket programmable ECU... or you build an analog sim to
put the postcat sensor input in acceptable parms. It's a voltage or
resistance, use a pot or build a little adjustable power supply (also,
basically, a pot.) I stay away from electronic vehicles for the most
part.
  #15  
Old October 18th 04, 08:41 PM
maxpower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

so we should have these removable and only install them in traffic jams??
"Ted Azito" > wrote in message
om...
> "maxpower" > wrote in message

>...
> > Thats great!!! Im sure your kids will appreciate that in the yrs to
> > come..Dont forget , we didnt inherit this earth from our ansestors. we

are
> > borrowing it from our kids

>
> Auto emissions are only long term in terms of carbon dioxide. Carbon
> monoxide, and hydrocarbons are reduced to CO2 in a few hours in the
> atmosphere. Oxides of nitrogen may be a little more durable but not
> much. Cat converters are a cancer on the ass of America and produce
> only short term improvements, relevant only in cities like LA and
> Denver. Where I live emmissions control does nothing for average air
> quality except in a really bad traffic jam.
>
> And I'm not worried about the federales whatsoever. The State guys
> could cause trouble but they have to prove I was the one who did it.
> Even so all they can do is make me fix it.



  #16  
Old October 18th 04, 08:41 PM
maxpower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

so we should have these removable and only install them in traffic jams??
"Ted Azito" > wrote in message
om...
> "maxpower" > wrote in message

>...
> > Thats great!!! Im sure your kids will appreciate that in the yrs to
> > come..Dont forget , we didnt inherit this earth from our ansestors. we

are
> > borrowing it from our kids

>
> Auto emissions are only long term in terms of carbon dioxide. Carbon
> monoxide, and hydrocarbons are reduced to CO2 in a few hours in the
> atmosphere. Oxides of nitrogen may be a little more durable but not
> much. Cat converters are a cancer on the ass of America and produce
> only short term improvements, relevant only in cities like LA and
> Denver. Where I live emmissions control does nothing for average air
> quality except in a really bad traffic jam.
>
> And I'm not worried about the federales whatsoever. The State guys
> could cause trouble but they have to prove I was the one who did it.
> Even so all they can do is make me fix it.



  #17  
Old October 18th 04, 08:44 PM
maxpower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That was a realistic conversation??
"Greg G" > wrote in message
.. .
> Nothing like a liberal treehugger to spoil a realistic Technical
> Conversation.
>
> maxpower wrote:
> > Thats great!!! Im sure your kids will appreciate that in the yrs to
> > come..Dont forget , we didnt inherit this earth from our ansestors. we

are
> > borrowing it from our kids
> > Glenn Beasley
> > Chrysler Tech

>



  #18  
Old October 18th 04, 08:44 PM
maxpower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That was a realistic conversation??
"Greg G" > wrote in message
.. .
> Nothing like a liberal treehugger to spoil a realistic Technical
> Conversation.
>
> maxpower wrote:
> > Thats great!!! Im sure your kids will appreciate that in the yrs to
> > come..Dont forget , we didnt inherit this earth from our ansestors. we

are
> > borrowing it from our kids
> > Glenn Beasley
> > Chrysler Tech

>



  #19  
Old October 18th 04, 08:47 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 17 Oct 2004, Ted Azito wrote:

> Cat converters are a cancer on the ass of America


How so? What do they do/cause/prevent that you object to?

> and produce only short term improvements, relevant only in cities like
> LA and Denver.


If that's the case, how come they've been adopted as the heart of emission
control systems worldwide?

  #20  
Old October 18th 04, 08:47 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 17 Oct 2004, Ted Azito wrote:

> Cat converters are a cancer on the ass of America


How so? What do they do/cause/prevent that you object to?

> and produce only short term improvements, relevant only in cities like
> LA and Denver.


If that's the case, how come they've been adopted as the heart of emission
control systems worldwide?

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! _____________---_ gadkypy David W. Poole, Jr. Antique cars 3 January 4th 05 07:47 PM
Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! _____________---_ gadkypy Paul Antique cars 3 November 9th 04 07:54 PM
Removing catalytic converter on my 145 boxer14 Alfa Romeo 0 August 3rd 04 09:36 AM
Catalytic Convertor Lambda Probe Ian Gaskell Audi 0 May 21st 04 05:14 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.