89 Civic "TDC Position" problem (car will not start)

Hi, I have an '89 Honda Civic 4-door. I went out to start the car the
other day, and nothing happens when I turn the ignition. No clicking,
strained attempts at turning over . . . only a _very_ quiet humming
sound (barely audible, even when you are paying close attention to it).


For one thing, I found out it is not the battery! :P I bought a new one
and that didn't change anything about the situation/symptoms (needed a
new one anyway, the old one was 6 years old and nearing the end of its
days).

So, I found out about the ECU and the codes thereof - my car is giving
an error code of 8, which, according to the billions of websites out
there that give this information (and not much in the way of describing
the problem with more details), error code 8 means "Top Dead Center
(TDC) Position" (one website did say "Check crank angle sensor and
replace if necessary" which means little to me, though if this will
remedy the situation, I would like to know what to do).

While I am not normally much of an auto mechanic, I have done my fair
share of repairs and maintenance on cars in the past and am not afraid
to get dirty. I am trying to figure out what needs to be done to get
this car working again, and I don't want to take it someplace and have
them charge me large sums of money to take care of something I can do
myself.

Would this TDC issue _really_ cause my car to not start, or is this a
red herring for something else, like a bad started solenoid or relay? I
am a computer software engineer by day, and I don't always trust what
software tells me, only because I have written enough software to know
that programmers make mistakes and not everything works 100% correct.


Any help is appreciated, thanks.

This the original distributor housing by any chance?

I've seen this "crank angle sensor" problem come up here
before. It's part of why the distributor of circa 1990
Hondas is its Achilles heel.

groups.Google for {"crank angle sensor" civic distributor},
and you'll see a lot of posts on this.

Looks like you're probably headed for a new distributor
housing. The housing is pretty much everything except the
cap, rotor, igniter, and coil. Transfer those to the new
housing. Look at the drawing at the parts site below, and it
will help you understand what needs to be replaced.

A good price on OEM distributor housings may be had at
www.slhonda.com . New and OEM is what I recommend, based on
my 91 Civic experiences and posts here. It will run you
around $275.

Alternatively, if you aren't going to keep this car long, I
know one guy who posted here that he got a whole (that is,
it included an igniter and coil) new NON-oem distributor for
under $200 at autozone.com

With just a bit of patience and tenacity, you can do it
yourself, based on what you say about your experience. (I'm
no pro but have learned a lot about distributor repairs
since most of the shops I've gone to have messed up
diagnoses and cost me time and money.) Use a manual and ask
questions here as needed. P.S. It's not a really dirty job,
unless you never clean under your hood.



> wrote
> Hi, I have an '89 Honda Civic 4-door. I went out to start
the car the
> other day, and nothing happens when I turn the ignition.
No clicking,
> strained attempts at turning over . . . only a _very_
quiet humming
> sound (barely audible, even when you are paying close
attention to it).
>
>
> For one thing, I found out it is not the battery! :P I
bought a new one
> and that didn't change anything about the
situation/symptoms (needed a
> new one anyway, the old one was 6 years old and nearing
the end of its
> days).
>
> So, I found out about the ECU and the codes thereof - my
car is giving
> an error code of 8, which, according to the billions of
websites out
> there that give this information (and not much in the way
of describing
> the problem with more details), error code 8 means "Top
Dead Center
> (TDC) Position" (one website did say "Check crank angle
sensor and
> replace if necessary" which means little to me, though if
this will
> remedy the situation, I would like to know what to do).
>
> While I am not normally much of an auto mechanic, I have
done my fair
> share of repairs and maintenance on cars in the past and
am not afraid
> to get dirty. I am trying to figure out what needs to be
done to get
> this car working again, and I don't want to take it
someplace and have
> them charge me large sums of money to take care of
something I can do
> myself.
>
> Would this TDC issue _really_ cause my car to not start,
or is this a
> red herring for something else, like a bad started
solenoid or relay? I
> am a computer software engineer by day, and I don't always
trust what
> software tells me, only because I have written enough
software to know
> that programmers make mistakes and not everything works
100% correct.
>
>
> Any help is appreciated, thanks.
>

Thanks for the help. The thing that I am hoping to get an answer to is
whether or not the car should be making more noise if it is truly
something wrong with the distributor. I just got off of the phone with
a former neighbor of mine that just so happens to work in the service
department of our local Honda dealer (lucky, huh?). I explained things
to him and he also thought that was weird. So, he said, based on the
symptoms, that it could also be the clutch switch that prevents the car
from starting if you don't have the clutch in, it could also be the
ignition switch (could be partially faulty), or the connections to the
starter from the battery.

So, I am going to try everything I can tonight. Although I don't want
it to come to this, I may just take it in to the dealer to have them
analyze it and figure it out. I just hate to spend money (especially
upwards of $200 - $300 just to find out I 'fixed' the wrong thing!

Thanks again, and if anyone else has any ideas, please let me know!

wrote in
oups.com:

>
> Hi, I have an '89 Honda Civic 4-door. I went out to start the car the
> other day, and nothing happens when I turn the ignition. No clicking,
> strained attempts at turning over . . . only a _very_ quiet humming
> sound (barely audible, even when you are paying close attention to it).




When you say "strained attempts at turning over", do you mean the starter
actually manages to rotate the engine a bit?

First things first: Make certain adequate power is getting to the starter.

Turn your headlights on, then watch them while a helper turns the key to
Start. What happens to the headlights? No change? Dim to nothing? Dim
slightly?

Make certain the battery AND engine ground cables connections are clean,
solidly attached, and are not frayed or broken. Then make sure the live
cable from battery to starter is the same.

At room temperature, with surface charge removed, a fully-charged battery
should measure 12.65V when tested with a VOM.

If all else checks out, then start looking at more expensive stuff.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

If anyone is interested, it turns out (no pun intended) that it was the
starter - it had seized-up. Handa dealer diagnosed the car for $25. To
have the dealer replace the starter was going to run me $275, I picked
up a starter from AutoZone for $77 and replaced it myself in 2 hours,
saving myself $200 and learning something in the process.

Thanks for all of the help, even if it didn't directly help me out.

wrote:
> Hi, I have an '89 Honda Civic 4-door. I went out to start the car the
> other day, and nothing happens when I turn the ignition. No clicking,
> strained attempts at turning over . . . only a _very_ quiet humming
> sound (barely audible, even when you are paying close attention to it).

Well I was about to post that it sounds like your starter is hooped, but
I see you already found the answer In case they weren't more
specific, this is what would happen if the solenoid was dead. In
addition to controlling what essentially is a high-current relay for
starter power, the solenoid pushes out the starter gear to mesh with the
flywheel teeth; if that's not working, the starter will just spin
quietly instead engaging to turn over the motor.

The ECU codes can't replace a good experienced mechanic's ear.


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On 12/19/05 5:38 PM, in article
,
" > wrote:

>
> If anyone is interested, it turns out (no pun intended) that it was the
> starter - it had seized-up. Handa dealer diagnosed the car for $25. To
> have the dealer replace the starter was going to run me $275, I picked
> up a starter from AutoZone for $77 and replaced it myself in 2 hours,
> saving myself $200 and learning something in the process.
>
> Thanks for all of the help, even if it didn't directly help me out.
>

Unfortunately, the next lesson you are probably going to learn is that the
aftermarket starter will probably have to be replaced every couple of months
until you get a good one. Always better to get the dealer part on these
things.

E Meyer wrote:
> On 12/19/05 5:38 PM, in article
> ,
> " > wrote:
>
>> If anyone is interested, it turns out (no pun intended) that it was the
>> starter - it had seized-up. Handa dealer diagnosed the car for $25. To
>> have the dealer replace the starter was going to run me $275, I picked
>> up a starter from AutoZone for $77 and replaced it myself in 2 hours,
>> saving myself $200 and learning something in the process.
>>
>> Thanks for all of the help, even if it didn't directly help me out.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, the next lesson you are probably going to learn is that the
> aftermarket starter will probably have to be replaced every couple of months
> until you get a good one. Always better to get the dealer part on these
> things.
>
or at least NAPA. or at the very least, i hope it had a lifetime warranty.