Chrysler 300M

I've decided to get a low mileage 300M, preferably years 2004 or 2003.
With the current gas price fears their selling value has crashed.
With such low depreciation I can afford the expensive gas and enjoy that
lovely car.

I've seen a very good condition low mileage (40k miles) 2000 and an
unbelievably low price, but I'm passing on it because of age.

If anyone has any good/bad experiences with the 300M I'm interested,
particularly what years were best.

TIA

Josh S wrote:
> I've decided to get a low mileage 300M, preferably years 2004 or 2003.
> With the current gas price fears their selling value has crashed.
> With such low depreciation I can afford the expensive gas and enjoy that
> lovely car.

Yep - there are two sides to every coin. I always laugh at people who
buy something because the market value is low (it's what they can
afford), and then complain when they can't get anything for it when they
go to sell it. They obviously haven't thought it through, eh?

> I've seen a very good condition low mileage (40k miles) 2000 and an
> unbelievably low price, but I'm passing on it because of age.
>
> If anyone has any good/bad experiences with the 300M I'm interested,
> particularly what years were best.
>
> TIA

I don't know - there's something to be said for low mileage, especially
if properly maintained.

On the 300M Enthusiast Club (forums:
http://300mclub.org/forums/index.php?) it is generally agreed that the
'01 and '02 MY's were the sweet spot - some parts prone to failure in
earlier years were improved (re-designed and/or improved manufacturing
processes), features added, then post '02, significant decontenting
started. Then it's a toss-up between '01 and '02 - '01 had things '02
didn't have, and vice-versa.

As that club and it's forums are 300M specific, come on over and search
there - this kind of thing has been asked and addressed a lot, and start
a thread or two there with remaining questions or for clarification, and
plain introduce yourself.

One thing to be aware of: The engine is interference, so it is
absolutely necessary to replace the timing belt at 100k-110k miles to
avoid damage. What I'm getting at is to factor that in if you are
looking at one that is due (to weigh in the price/use for bargaining),
or to be a plus if, say, it has just been done (and can be proven).
Around $300 in parts for the smart DIY'er, $600-900 parts and labor at a
shop.

Oh - BTW - here's an '02, inferno red, 62k miles, that you just missed
(owned by a guy that truly took care of it) because he just ordered a
new Challenger: http://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17689

Just to whet your appetite.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

In article >,
Bill Putney > wrote:

> Josh S wrote:
> > I've decided to get a low mileage 300M, preferably years 2004 or 2003.
> > With the current gas price fears their selling value has crashed.
> > With such low depreciation I can afford the expensive gas and enjoy that
> > lovely car.

>
> Yep - there are two sides to every coin. I always laugh at people who
> buy something because the market value is low (it's what they can
> afford), and then complain when they can't get anything for it when they
> go to sell it. They obviously haven't thought it through, eh?
My current '95 car tells you something about how long I keep a car. I'd
expect to keep it 10+ years and wouldn't expect any significant residual
value at that time.
I favor a high mileage 2004 over say a lower mileage 2001/2, because it
would probably be easier highway mileage.

> On the 300M Enthusiast Club (forums:
Interesting club.

> One thing to be aware of: The engine is interference, so it is
> absolutely necessary to replace the timing belt at 100k-110k miles to
> avoid damage. What I'm getting at is to factor that in if you are
> looking at one that is due (to weigh in the price/use for bargaining),
> or to be a plus if, say, it has just been done (and can be proven).
> Around $300 in parts for the smart DIY'er, $600-900 parts and labor at a
> shop.
Yes I was aware of the interference design and certainly something to be
concerned about. I'd need to see a repair invoice to confirm the belt
was changed.
The cars I'm seeing advertised mostly are up to 120Kkms (about 75K
miles) so I doubt the timing belt has been changed.

> Oh - BTW - here's an '02, inferno red, 62k miles, that you just missed
> (owned by a guy that truly took care of it) because he just ordered a
> new Challenger: http://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17689
Yes lovely car, but being in western Canada it's not an easy purchase
for me so I'll pass on USA and distant cars.
There's also another nice 2002 in their classifieds; the special model
I'm not interested in.

There are quite a few coming on the market locally, mostly the 2004
model. Also the prices are being reduced very rapidly; as I look.
I expect Chryslers unfortunate situation is part of the reason Chrysler
products prices, used and new, are dropping here.

Thanks Bill for the very informative reply.

On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 02:25:00 GMT, Josh S > wrote:

>I've decided to get a low mileage 300M, preferably years 2004 or 2003.
>With the current gas price fears their selling value has crashed.
>With such low depreciation I can afford the expensive gas and enjoy that
>lovely car.
>
>I've seen a very good condition low mileage (40k miles) 2000 and an
>unbelievably low price, but I'm passing on it because of age.
>
>If anyone has any good/bad experiences with the 300M I'm interested,
> particularly what years were best.
>
>TIA

Hi Josh,

I have a 2002 300M Special (black on black). In the six years and
77,000 km I've owned this car I've had no real complaints, but road
noise is greater than I would expect in a car of its class and it
appears to be largely tyre related; I'm not sure what, if anything,
can be done to resolve it. There have been other minor issues*, but
overall it's been a good car and a pleasure to drive.

Cheers,
Paul

* Brake dust, window trim went hazy, failed seat heater switch, a/c
problems

Josh S wrote:

> Thanks Bill for the very informative reply.

You'll find something. You're going in with eyes open. Take advantage
of the market.

Myself - I've got two 2nd gen. Concordes - my daily driver has the 2.7L
engine - famous for sludging up and self destructing at between 60k and
80k miles - except mine has over 200k miles on it and is running like a
top (insurance co. totalled it out last year for fender, headlight, and
door damage and I bought it back). It's my daily driver - 80 miles/day.
I'm in the process of deciding whether to replace the timing chain and
water pump at the tune of *several* hundred dollars in parts, plus labor
(either mine or a shops for probably an additional $400 or so) - timing
chain would otherwise not be a concern - but the water pump is driven by
it, and if the water pump bearings decide to go bye-bye, it's also
good-bye timing chain and probably the engine (also interference) - *OR*
just keep driving it and see how far it will go before . . . whatever .
.. . happens - kind of like being in the proverbial blender. If and when
"it" happens, it will owe me nothing.

But the paradox is what can I buy that isn't a risk that's not going to
cost several times what the timing chain/water pump job costs. Ah-Oh -
there I go sounding like those people I was criticizing. Not really -
I'm just trying to figure out what the next logical step is.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:

> Hi Josh,
>
> I have a 2002 300M Special (black on black). In the six years and
> 77,000 km I've owned this car I've had no real complaints, but road
> noise is greater than I would expect in a car of its class and it
> appears to be largely tyre related; I'm not sure what, if anything,
> can be done to resolve it...

Yes - it is tires, Paul. Goodyears? Anyway - you might consider a good
touring tire - something like the Cooper CS-4. I have the Cooper
predecessor to that (the Lifeliner Touring SLE) on all three of my cars.
They are *super* quiet and very long wearing and aren't that expensive
($111 ea. for 16" - more of course for 17 or 18"). They quieted my
Concordes right down. If my SLE's ever wear out, the CS-4's are going
on in their place.

There have been other minor issues*, but
> overall it's been a good car and a pleasure to drive.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul
>
> * Brake dust, window trim went hazy, failed seat heater switch, a/c
> problems

A.C. problems - evaporator started leaking? Did you get it fixed?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 21:34:54 -0400, Bill Putney >
wrote:

>Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
>
>> Hi Josh,
>>
>> I have a 2002 300M Special (black on black). In the six years and
>> 77,000 km I've owned this car I've had no real complaints, but road
>> noise is greater than I would expect in a car of its class and it
>> appears to be largely tyre related; I'm not sure what, if anything,
>> can be done to resolve it...
>
>Yes - it is tires, Paul. Goodyears? Anyway - you might consider a good
>touring tire - something like the Cooper CS-4. I have the Cooper
>predecessor to that (the Lifeliner Touring SLE) on all three of my cars.
> They are *super* quiet and very long wearing and aren't that expensive
>($111 ea. for 16" - more of course for 17 or 18"). They quieted my
>Concordes right down. If my SLE's ever wear out, the CS-4's are going
>on in their place.

Hi Bill,

The originals were Michelin Pilots as I recall. They were quiet for
perhaps the first 500 km, then became progressively louder, to the
point that I had to replace them even though they had considerable
tread life remaining (frequent rotating didn't help at all). Based on
the recommendations of the service technician, I went with BF Goodrich
which are notably better in this respect, but still not great. Thanks
for recommending the Cooper CS-4; when it comes time to replace these,
I'll know which ones to get.

> There have been other minor issues*, but
>> overall it's been a good car and a pleasure to drive.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
>>
>> * Brake dust, window trim went hazy, failed seat heater switch, a/c
>> problems
>
>A.C. problems - evaporator started leaking? Did you get it fixed?

Yes and no. In this climate, I seldom need a/c but when I do, I opt
for the Dodge Magnum R/T parked behind door #2. I do miss my heated
seat when it's -30C.

BTW, the evaporator failed on both my '94 and '97 LHS, so I've come to
the conclusion this problem is common to all Chryslers.

>Bill Putney
>(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>address with the letter 'x')

"Josh S" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Bill Putney > wrote:
>
> > Josh S wrote:
> > > I've decided to get a low mileage 300M, preferably years 2004 or 2003.
> > > With the current gas price fears their selling value has crashed.
> > > With such low depreciation I can afford the expensive gas and enjoy
that
> > > lovely car.
>
> >
> > Yep - there are two sides to every coin. I always laugh at people who
> > buy something because the market value is low (it's what they can
> > afford), and then complain when they can't get anything for it when they
> > go to sell it. They obviously haven't thought it through, eh?
> My current '95 car tells you something about how long I keep a car. I'd
> expect to keep it 10+ years and wouldn't expect any significant residual
> value at that time.
> I favor a high mileage 2004 over say a lower mileage 2001/2, because it
> would probably be easier highway mileage.
>
> > On the 300M Enthusiast Club (forums:
> Interesting club.
>
> > One thing to be aware of: The engine is interference, so it is
> > absolutely necessary to replace the timing belt at 100k-110k miles to
> > avoid damage. What I'm getting at is to factor that in if you are
> > looking at one that is due (to weigh in the price/use for bargaining),
> > or to be a plus if, say, it has just been done (and can be proven).
> > Around $300 in parts for the smart DIY'er, $600-900 parts and labor at a
> > shop.
> Yes I was aware of the interference design and certainly something to be
> concerned about. I'd need to see a repair invoice to confirm the belt
> was changed.
> The cars I'm seeing advertised mostly are up to 120Kkms (about 75K
> miles) so I doubt the timing belt has been changed.
>
> > Oh - BTW - here's an '02, inferno red, 62k miles, that you just missed
> > (owned by a guy that truly took care of it) because he just ordered a
> > new Challenger: http://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17689
> Yes lovely car, but being in western Canada it's not an easy purchase
> for me so I'll pass on USA and distant cars.
> There's also another nice 2002 in their classifieds; the special model
> I'm not interested in.
>
> There are quite a few coming on the market locally, mostly the 2004
> model. Also the prices are being reduced very rapidly; as I look.
> I expect Chryslers unfortunate situation is part of the reason Chrysler
> products prices, used and new, are dropping here.
>

No, the problem is that anyone driving a high amount of mileage every
year, say for example 25-30K miles a year, is being eaten alive by the
fuel costs. They know perfectly well that their existing car has a lot more
miles in it, but they just can't afford to fuel it anymore.

If your not driving a lot of miles every year then you can afford to drive
a gas-guzzler and you will have a huge selection of used vehicles to choose
from

We saw this sort of thing happen in the last 70's early 80's. I remember
when I was 15 and my grandparents sold their '72 Olds Ninety
Eight. I called and begged them not to do it, I pleaded that they just keep
the car a few more years, just garaged, until I was old enough to go down
there and drive it back. They said they didn't want to saddle me with
such a big heavy car. It was one of the few times that I really was ****ed
at my grandfather and even today looking back I realize what a poor
decision of his that that was. At the time I was probably not driving more
than 3K miles a year, and I wasn't driving more than that for many, many
years following.

Ted

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:09:02 UTC, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
> wrote:

80's. I remember
> when I was 15 and my grandparents sold their '72 Olds Ninety
> Eight. I called and begged them not to do it, I pleaded that they just keep
> the car a few more years, just garaged, until I was old enough to go down
> there and drive it back. They said they didn't want to saddle me with
> such a big heavy car. It was one of the few times that I really was ****ed
> at my grandfather and even today looking back I realize what a poor
> decision of his that that was. At the time I was probably not driving more
> than 3K miles a year, and I wasn't driving more than that for many, many
> years following.
>
> Ted
I can sympathize with you: My grandpa got rid of a great 1951 Dodge
with Fluid Drive, then got rid of a 55 Dodge Royal tri-tone paint and
Red Ram V-8. He just considered them "old worn out cars" and bought a
brand new 64 Dodge Dart which he had when he passed away.

Josh S wrote:

> I've decided to get a low mileage 300M, preferably years 2004 or
> 2003.

I purchased (new from dealer) a year-2000 model 300m (took delivery of
it Nov 1 / 1999) and I currently have 81k miles on it. That works out
to an average of 25 miles per day, every day for the past 3200 days (8
years, 9 months).

Here are the problems it's had so far:

- both rear door lock solenoids have failed (at different times) and
have been replaced (both were out of warranty).
- One of the transmission speed sensors failed (during the warranty
period).
- driver's side exhaust flex or ball-coupling (between cat and first
resonator) failed recently - replaced it (and the first resonator) with
aftermarket stainless steel replacement (magnaflow).
- I replaced the front sway bar end-links and bushings a couple of years
ago, and they need to be done again.
- about 6-8 months ago one of the coil packs failed, and I bought a new
one and replaced it myself.

I think that's pretty much it.

Here's what's been done as part of normal servicing:

- replaced the front rotors and brake pads (once or twice- I forget)
- oil changes (every 3 to 5k miles)
- at the first air filter change I swapped in a K&N re-useable filter
and have been cleaning and re-oiling it once or twice a year for the
past 7 years.
- I changed the spark plugs for the first time about 6-8 months ago.
- The serpentine belt was changed about a year ago, along with one (or
2?) idler pulleys (just for the hell of it).
- Have had manditory emissions testing on it (first one at 3 years of
age, then every 2 years after that). Has always passed with flying
colors.
- when original tires (horrible Goodyear Eagle's) wore out, I replaced
them with Dunlop 2000 summer tires (and started to use dedicated snow
tires in winter). When the Dunlop's wore out, I replaced them with
Yokahama Advan S4 (this is the second summer on them I think) and
they're a great tire and I'll get them again. Very quiet ride. The
full-size spare is a Dunlop. Tire size is 225-55-17 (original tire size
on bright-chrome original "Razor-star" rims).
- front differential fluid has been changed (once) and I think is due
again for change.
- same for power steering fluid.


Here's what hasn't failed or what is still original:

- battery is still factory original
- engine coolant is still factory original
- transmission oil and filter is still factory original (but is over-due
for service I guess)
- no body rust to speak of (I live in Southwest Ontario where the
climate is similar to Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo). I garage the
car every night, and the temp in the garage rarely goes below 50f in the
winter. Some surface rusting or scaling is visible on the bottom inside
door seams.
- I've had to replace one burned-out tail light, but I don't believe
I've yet to change any other lamp on the car - even the headlights.

Here's what will need to be serviced at 100k miles (which at this rate
will be in exactly 2 years):

- timing belt, and along with it (because there would be no extra labor
charge) the water pump.
- in theory, the service guide says that the coolant is good for 100k
miles, so I probably won't be changing the coolant until the timing belt
and water pump are done, and the coolant would be done anyways during
that type of service.
- Chrysler dealer service garage tells me the cost (part and labor) for
changing the timing belt and water pump will be close to $1000. Can I
get a reality check on that?

> With the current gas price fears their selling value has crashed.

I'm thinking more that as they age, their value is going down. NOT that
the 300m is a gas-guzzler. If the over-head console MPG reading is
correct, then I routinely get 29 +/- 3 MPG on the highway at steady 70
mph cruise.

> With such low depreciation I can afford the expensive gas and enjoy
> that lovely car.

If by expensive gas you mean anything more than 87 octane, well, that's
simply not necessary. My car has seen only the cheap 87 octane all it's
life, and AFAIC that's all it needs.

> I've seen a very good condition low mileage (40k miles) 2000 and
> an unbelievably low price, but I'm passing on it because of age.

Well, if mine is any example, there's nothing wrong with a '00 300m
today, especially at only 40k miles.

I'm not sure if the '01 or '02 has anything extra on the '00 other than
bright chrome window trim. I'm not sure if the '01 or '02 came with 17"
wheels, or especially the bright-chromed 17" wheels, but if they didn't
then I'd say that's a downer.

I'd say that for a 300m at this point, beyond simply miles on the car,
pay attention to the condition of the exhaust, and note that the timing
belt will need servicing at 100k miles. Ask if the battery is original,
and check the condition of the tires. I would definately buy this car
again new.

I wouldn't get the 300m "special" version because (I believe) their
suspension is tuned even more stiffer than the 300m regular (that was
supposed to be the primary difference with the 'special, along with a
few more HP) and I wouldn't want a more "jarring" or harsher ride than
what I've got right now. I think the '03 or '04 special had 18" wheels
(which are getting a little on the absurd side, and you've got some
tire-slap noise and in general more expensive tires to deal with in that
case).