Air Bag Light - '93

<snip>
>>> >> >> > With front
>>> >> >> > end body work recently done, I'd check around the
>>> >> >> > right/center/left crash sensors and associated wiring and
>>> >> >> > harness connectors. The RH and LH sensors are located at
>>> >> >> > their respective sides of the upper radiator support,
>>> >> >> > behind the headlamps and the center sensor at the middle
>>> >> >> > upper radiator support...
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > --
>>> >> >> > Mike
>>> >> >> > 93 Cobra
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I will certainly do that. Thanks for the tip, Mike.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Joe
>>> >> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>>> >> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Joe, are you having battery charging issues of late??? The
>>> >> > diagnostic monitor may be flashing a code 12 for low battery.
>>> >> > This might also explain reving of the engine causing the lamp
>>> >> > to extinguish. Make sense??? Maybe a bad regulator or
>>> >> > alternator. Also, if you haven't done so yet, check fuse #7
>>> >> > (15amp).
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Mike
>>> >> > 93 Cobra
>>> >>
>>> >> Yes, in fact, I am having battery charging issues. The
>>> >> underdrives on the car are killing the battery - at idle it's
>>> >> constantly discharging. Forget about it if the a/c or lights
>>> >> are on.
>>> >>
>>> >> The alternator (stock replacement) is only about 18 months old
>>> >> give or take, and the battery is less than a year. Since I
>>> >> bought the car (I'm the original owner) I've never ever seen
the
>>> >> air bag light go on except for start up and key-on-engine-off.
>>> >> The bag has never popped, either.
>>> >>
>>> >> So does the air-bag light flash codes? I've never heard of
>>> >> that.
>>> >
>>> > Yeah, the Diagnostic Monitor will display a DTC representing a
>>> > two digit number when detecting a fault. No memory mind you
after
>>> > the key is turned off. You got to do it on the fly. So, for
>>> > instance DTC 12 (low battery voltage) would be:
>>> >
>>> > Flash (one second pause) - flash flash (three second pause) and
>>> > then it repeats.
>>> >
>>> > This particular code caught my attention after thinking about
>>> > your original post. More so now than the front crash sensors
with
>>> > recent body work, but don't count those out. Right now, it's
>>> > important to pull the code to narrow this down.
>>> > The D/M monitors (among other things) battery voltage via fuse #
>>> > 7. Don't forget to check this fuse. If it's blown, we need to
>>> > figure why. If you have a voltmeter, measure the battery
directly
>>> > while the engine idles vs reving and note any voltage swing.
>>> > Obviously, you've got a charging problem here. BTW, anything
>>> > lower than 9 volts will trigger the D/M to flash a DTC 12.
>>> >
>>> >>But the discharging is certainly an issue.
>>> >
>>> > It certainly is. Fix that first and maybe the air bag issue will
>>> > resolve itself.
>>> >
>>> >> Again, thanks for the tip. All good stuff to check out.
>>> >
>>> > Yep, good luck with it...
>>> >
>>> >> Joe
>>> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>>> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>>> >
>>> > Mike
>>> > 93 Cobra
>>>
>>> Mike, you know it never occurred to me that the air bag light was
>>> actually displaying a code by blinking. Now I'll have to go check
>>> it out and see what it's telling me. And I will check the fuses
as
>>> well. Again, thanks very much.
>>>
>>> BTW, is there a web site or something that contains all the codes
>>> and what they mean?
>>>
>>> Joe
>>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>>
>> I just found this:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/9doou
>>
>> If you're interested in a schematic:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/ex3mt
>>
>> FYI. The D/M monitors battery voltage at pin 13 via fuse #7
>>
>> Time for some coffee...HTH
>>
>> --
>> Mike
>> 93 Cobra

Mike, it's throwing code 51 which is 'Diagnostic monitor internal
thermal fuse open'. Fuse # 7 is good, btw.

Here's the excerpt from one of the links you posted:
"If the AIR BAG readiness lamp is flashing a Fault Code 51 and a short
to ground has not been serviced, this means that an intermittent short
to ground exists in the air bag system. The diagnostic monitor will
eventually have to be replaced but only after a visual inspection
leads to the repair of a short to ground in the wiring harness."

At this point, my question is: After I find and fix the short to
ground, do I have to replace the diagnostic monitor? If so, where is
it?

Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

In article >, Joe
> wrote:

> <snip>
> >>> >> >> > With front
> >>> >> >> > end body work recently done, I'd check around the
> >>> >> >> > right/center/left crash sensors and associated wiring and
> >>> >> >> > harness connectors. The RH and LH sensors are located at
> >>> >> >> > their respective sides of the upper radiator support,
> >>> >> >> > behind the headlamps and the center sensor at the middle
> >>> >> >> > upper radiator support...
> >>> >> >> >
> >>> >> >> > --
> >>> >> >> > Mike
> >>> >> >> > 93 Cobra
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> I will certainly do that. Thanks for the tip, Mike.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Joe
> >>> >> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >>> >> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Joe, are you having battery charging issues of late??? The
> >>> >> > diagnostic monitor may be flashing a code 12 for low battery.
> >>> >> > This might also explain reving of the engine causing the lamp
> >>> >> > to extinguish. Make sense??? Maybe a bad regulator or
> >>> >> > alternator. Also, if you haven't done so yet, check fuse #7
> >>> >> > (15amp).
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > --
> >>> >> > Mike
> >>> >> > 93 Cobra
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Yes, in fact, I am having battery charging issues. The
> >>> >> underdrives on the car are killing the battery - at idle it's
> >>> >> constantly discharging. Forget about it if the a/c or lights
> >>> >> are on.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The alternator (stock replacement) is only about 18 months old
> >>> >> give or take, and the battery is less than a year. Since I
> >>> >> bought the car (I'm the original owner) I've never ever seen
> the
> >>> >> air bag light go on except for start up and key-on-engine-off.
> >>> >> The bag has never popped, either.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> So does the air-bag light flash codes? I've never heard of
> >>> >> that.
> >>> >
> >>> > Yeah, the Diagnostic Monitor will display a DTC representing a
> >>> > two digit number when detecting a fault. No memory mind you
> after
> >>> > the key is turned off. You got to do it on the fly. So, for
> >>> > instance DTC 12 (low battery voltage) would be:
> >>> >
> >>> > Flash (one second pause) - flash flash (three second pause) and
> >>> > then it repeats.
> >>> >
> >>> > This particular code caught my attention after thinking about
> >>> > your original post. More so now than the front crash sensors
> with
> >>> > recent body work, but don't count those out. Right now, it's
> >>> > important to pull the code to narrow this down.
> >>> > The D/M monitors (among other things) battery voltage via fuse #
> >>> > 7. Don't forget to check this fuse. If it's blown, we need to
> >>> > figure why. If you have a voltmeter, measure the battery
> directly
> >>> > while the engine idles vs reving and note any voltage swing.
> >>> > Obviously, you've got a charging problem here. BTW, anything
> >>> > lower than 9 volts will trigger the D/M to flash a DTC 12.
> >>> >
> >>> >>But the discharging is certainly an issue.
> >>> >
> >>> > It certainly is. Fix that first and maybe the air bag issue will
> >>> > resolve itself.
> >>> >
> >>> >> Again, thanks for the tip. All good stuff to check out.
> >>> >
> >>> > Yep, good luck with it...
> >>> >
> >>> >> Joe
> >>> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >>> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >>> >
> >>> > Mike
> >>> > 93 Cobra
> >>>
> >>> Mike, you know it never occurred to me that the air bag light was
> >>> actually displaying a code by blinking. Now I'll have to go check
> >>> it out and see what it's telling me. And I will check the fuses
> as
> >>> well. Again, thanks very much.
> >>>
> >>> BTW, is there a web site or something that contains all the codes
> >>> and what they mean?
> >>>
> >>> Joe
> >>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >>
> >> I just found this:
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/9doou
> >>
> >> If you're interested in a schematic:
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/ex3mt
> >>
> >> FYI. The D/M monitors battery voltage at pin 13 via fuse #7
> >>
> >> Time for some coffee...HTH
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mike
> >> 93 Cobra
>
> Mike, it's throwing code 51 which is 'Diagnostic monitor internal
> thermal fuse open'. Fuse # 7 is good, btw.
>
> Here's the excerpt from one of the links you posted:
> "If the AIR BAG readiness lamp is flashing a Fault Code 51 and a short
> to ground has not been serviced, this means that an intermittent short
> to ground exists in the air bag system. The diagnostic monitor will
> eventually have to be replaced but only after a visual inspection
> leads to the repair of a short to ground in the wiring harness."
>
> At this point, my question is: After I find and fix the short to
> ground, do I have to replace the diagnostic monitor? If so, where is
> it?
>
> Joe
> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Yes, you have to find the short to ground before replacing the D/M,
otherwise you risk the chance of destroying the replacement. Code 51 is
actually indicating the internal fuse is blown and the short to ground is
not present. If the intermittent short returns, the D/M will flash a code
13. The sequence of events for code 51 is something like this:

Short to ground-->D/M flashes code 13 and sends signal blowing internal fuse
preventing unwanted air bag deployment-->D/M continues flashing code 13
while short is present-->short temporarily clears-->D/M now flashes code
51-->short to ground returns-->D/M flashes code 13 and so on....

Looks like you might want to continue inspecting the three crash sensors
and associated wiring in the engine compartment. Sounds like there may be
an intermittent pinched wire against body sheetmetal somewhere. Also keep
monitoring the indicator to see if code 13 surfaces. And lastly, the D/M
is located behind the lower center instrument panal...

--
Mike
93 Cobra

(Mike R) wrote in
:

> In article >, Joe
> > wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>> >>> >> >> > With front
>> >>> >> >> > end body work recently done, I'd check around the
>> >>> >> >> > right/center/left crash sensors and associated wiring
>> >>> >> >> > and harness connectors. The RH and LH sensors are
>> >>> >> >> > located at their respective sides of the upper radiator
>> >>> >> >> > support, behind the headlamps and the center sensor at
>> >>> >> >> > the middle upper radiator support...
>> >>> >> >> >
>> >>> >> >> > --
>> >>> >> >> > Mike
>> >>> >> >> > 93 Cobra
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> I will certainly do that. Thanks for the tip, Mike.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> Joe
>> >>> >> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> >>> >> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Joe, are you having battery charging issues of late??? The
>> >>> >> > diagnostic monitor may be flashing a code 12 for low
>> >>> >> > battery. This might also explain reving of the engine
>> >>> >> > causing the lamp to extinguish. Make sense??? Maybe a bad
>> >>> >> > regulator or alternator. Also, if you haven't done so yet,
>> >>> >> > check fuse #7 (15amp).
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > --
>> >>> >> > Mike
>> >>> >> > 93 Cobra
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Yes, in fact, I am having battery charging issues. The
>> >>> >> underdrives on the car are killing the battery - at idle
>> >>> >> it's constantly discharging. Forget about it if the a/c or
>> >>> >> lights are on.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> The alternator (stock replacement) is only about 18 months
>> >>> >> old give or take, and the battery is less than a year.
>> >>> >> Since I bought the car (I'm the original owner) I've never
>> >>> >> ever seen
>> the
>> >>> >> air bag light go on except for start up and
>> >>> >> key-on-engine-off. The bag has never popped, either.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> So does the air-bag light flash codes? I've never heard of
>> >>> >> that.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Yeah, the Diagnostic Monitor will display a DTC representing
>> >>> > a two digit number when detecting a fault. No memory mind you
>> after
>> >>> > the key is turned off. You got to do it on the fly. So, for
>> >>> > instance DTC 12 (low battery voltage) would be:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Flash (one second pause) - flash flash (three second pause)
>> >>> > and then it repeats.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > This particular code caught my attention after thinking about
>> >>> > your original post. More so now than the front crash sensors
>> with
>> >>> > recent body work, but don't count those out. Right now, it's
>> >>> > important to pull the code to narrow this down.
>> >>> > The D/M monitors (among other things) battery voltage via
>> >>> > fuse # 7. Don't forget to check this fuse. If it's blown, we
>> >>> > need to figure why. If you have a voltmeter, measure the
>> >>> > battery
>> directly
>> >>> > while the engine idles vs reving and note any voltage swing.
>> >>> > Obviously, you've got a charging problem here. BTW, anything
>> >>> > lower than 9 volts will trigger the D/M to flash a DTC 12.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >>But the discharging is certainly an issue.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > It certainly is. Fix that first and maybe the air bag issue
>> >>> > will resolve itself.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Again, thanks for the tip. All good stuff to check out.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Yep, good luck with it...
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Joe
>> >>> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> >>> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Mike
>> >>> > 93 Cobra
>> >>>
>> >>> Mike, you know it never occurred to me that the air bag light
>> >>> was actually displaying a code by blinking. Now I'll have to
>> >>> go check it out and see what it's telling me. And I will check
>> >>> the fuses
>> as
>> >>> well. Again, thanks very much.
>> >>>
>> >>> BTW, is there a web site or something that contains all the
>> >>> codes and what they mean?
>> >>>
>> >>> Joe
>> >>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> >>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >>
>> >> I just found this:
>> >>
>> >> http://tinyurl.com/9doou
>> >>
>> >> If you're interested in a schematic:
>> >>
>> >> http://tinyurl.com/ex3mt
>> >>
>> >> FYI. The D/M monitors battery voltage at pin 13 via fuse #7
>> >>
>> >> Time for some coffee...HTH
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Mike
>> >> 93 Cobra
>>
>> Mike, it's throwing code 51 which is 'Diagnostic monitor internal
>> thermal fuse open'. Fuse # 7 is good, btw.
>>
>> Here's the excerpt from one of the links you posted:
>> "If the AIR BAG readiness lamp is flashing a Fault Code 51 and a
>> short to ground has not been serviced, this means that an
>> intermittent short to ground exists in the air bag system. The
>> diagnostic monitor will eventually have to be replaced but only
>> after a visual inspection leads to the repair of a short to ground
>> in the wiring harness."
>>
>> At this point, my question is: After I find and fix the short to
>> ground, do I have to replace the diagnostic monitor? If so, where
>> is it?
>>
>> Joe
>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>
> Yes, you have to find the short to ground before replacing the D/M,
> otherwise you risk the chance of destroying the replacement. Code 51
> is actually indicating the internal fuse is blown and the short to
> ground is not present. If the intermittent short returns, the D/M
> will flash a code 13. The sequence of events for code 51 is
> something like this:
>
> Short to ground-->D/M flashes code 13 and sends signal blowing
> internal fuse preventing unwanted air bag deployment-->D/M continues
> flashing code 13 while short is present-->short temporarily
> clears-->D/M now flashes code 51-->short to ground returns-->D/M
> flashes code 13 and so on....
>
> Looks like you might want to continue inspecting the three crash
> sensors and associated wiring in the engine compartment. Sounds like
> there may be an intermittent pinched wire against body sheetmetal
> somewhere. Also keep monitoring the indicator to see if code 13
> surfaces. And lastly, the D/M is located behind the lower center
> instrument panal...
>
> --
> Mike
> 93 Cobra

Mike,

After reading the links and your post, I now see what's happening. I've
been keeping an eye on the air bag light, and it never reverts back to a
code 13 - it's always 51. I've gone in there and checked around all 3
crash sensors and everything seems fine. Haven't seen any exposed or
pinched wiring at all.

Because the intermittent short has never returned, I'm wondering if the
shop somehow shorted out the wiring during reassembly (IOW, the battery
was connected at some point during reassembly). Would that explain why
(a) the DM blew in the first place and (b) why it's not throwing code
13?

I've also heard that the DM could simply go bad without experiencing an
actual short. True? Theoretically, if the new replacement unit doesn't
see another intermittent short, it will be fine, correct?

Finally, is the DM down behind the radio near the console or up in where
the air ducts go? IOW, will I have to disassemble part of the dash to
get to it, or can I just remove the center console that houses the radio
and HVAC controls?

Thanks again for all your invaluable help!

Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

In article >, Joe
> wrote:

> (Mike R) wrote in
> :
>
> > In article >, Joe
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> <snip>
> >> >>> >> >> > With front
> >> >>> >> >> > end body work recently done, I'd check around the
> >> >>> >> >> > right/center/left crash sensors and associated wiring
> >> >>> >> >> > and harness connectors. The RH and LH sensors are
> >> >>> >> >> > located at their respective sides of the upper radiator
> >> >>> >> >> > support, behind the headlamps and the center sensor at
> >> >>> >> >> > the middle upper radiator support...
> >> >>> >> >> >
> >> >>> >> >> > --
> >> >>> >> >> > Mike
> >> >>> >> >> > 93 Cobra
> >> >>> >> >>
> >> >>> >> >> I will certainly do that. Thanks for the tip, Mike.
> >> >>> >> >>
> >> >>> >> >> Joe
> >> >>> >> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >> >>> >> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> > Joe, are you having battery charging issues of late??? The
> >> >>> >> > diagnostic monitor may be flashing a code 12 for low
> >> >>> >> > battery. This might also explain reving of the engine
> >> >>> >> > causing the lamp to extinguish. Make sense??? Maybe a bad
> >> >>> >> > regulator or alternator. Also, if you haven't done so yet,
> >> >>> >> > check fuse #7 (15amp).
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> > --
> >> >>> >> > Mike
> >> >>> >> > 93 Cobra
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> Yes, in fact, I am having battery charging issues. The
> >> >>> >> underdrives on the car are killing the battery - at idle
> >> >>> >> it's constantly discharging. Forget about it if the a/c or
> >> >>> >> lights are on.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> The alternator (stock replacement) is only about 18 months
> >> >>> >> old give or take, and the battery is less than a year.
> >> >>> >> Since I bought the car (I'm the original owner) I've never
> >> >>> >> ever seen
> >> the
> >> >>> >> air bag light go on except for start up and
> >> >>> >> key-on-engine-off. The bag has never popped, either.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> So does the air-bag light flash codes? I've never heard of
> >> >>> >> that.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Yeah, the Diagnostic Monitor will display a DTC representing
> >> >>> > a two digit number when detecting a fault. No memory mind you
> >> after
> >> >>> > the key is turned off. You got to do it on the fly. So, for
> >> >>> > instance DTC 12 (low battery voltage) would be:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Flash (one second pause) - flash flash (three second pause)
> >> >>> > and then it repeats.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > This particular code caught my attention after thinking about
> >> >>> > your original post. More so now than the front crash sensors
> >> with
> >> >>> > recent body work, but don't count those out. Right now, it's
> >> >>> > important to pull the code to narrow this down.
> >> >>> > The D/M monitors (among other things) battery voltage via
> >> >>> > fuse # 7. Don't forget to check this fuse. If it's blown, we
> >> >>> > need to figure why. If you have a voltmeter, measure the
> >> >>> > battery
> >> directly
> >> >>> > while the engine idles vs reving and note any voltage swing.
> >> >>> > Obviously, you've got a charging problem here. BTW, anything
> >> >>> > lower than 9 volts will trigger the D/M to flash a DTC 12.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >>But the discharging is certainly an issue.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > It certainly is. Fix that first and maybe the air bag issue
> >> >>> > will resolve itself.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >> Again, thanks for the tip. All good stuff to check out.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Yep, good luck with it...
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >> Joe
> >> >>> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >> >>> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Mike
> >> >>> > 93 Cobra
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Mike, you know it never occurred to me that the air bag light
> >> >>> was actually displaying a code by blinking. Now I'll have to
> >> >>> go check it out and see what it's telling me. And I will check
> >> >>> the fuses
> >> as
> >> >>> well. Again, thanks very much.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> BTW, is there a web site or something that contains all the
> >> >>> codes and what they mean?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Joe
> >> >>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >> >>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >> >>
> >> >> I just found this:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/9doou
> >> >>
> >> >> If you're interested in a schematic:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ex3mt
> >> >>
> >> >> FYI. The D/M monitors battery voltage at pin 13 via fuse #7
> >> >>
> >> >> Time for some coffee...HTH
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Mike
> >> >> 93 Cobra
> >>
> >> Mike, it's throwing code 51 which is 'Diagnostic monitor internal
> >> thermal fuse open'. Fuse # 7 is good, btw.
> >>
> >> Here's the excerpt from one of the links you posted:
> >> "If the AIR BAG readiness lamp is flashing a Fault Code 51 and a
> >> short to ground has not been serviced, this means that an
> >> intermittent short to ground exists in the air bag system. The
> >> diagnostic monitor will eventually have to be replaced but only
> >> after a visual inspection leads to the repair of a short to ground
> >> in the wiring harness."
> >>
> >> At this point, my question is: After I find and fix the short to
> >> ground, do I have to replace the diagnostic monitor? If so, where
> >> is it?
> >>
> >> Joe
> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >
> > Yes, you have to find the short to ground before replacing the D/M,
> > otherwise you risk the chance of destroying the replacement. Code 51
> > is actually indicating the internal fuse is blown and the short to
> > ground is not present. If the intermittent short returns, the D/M
> > will flash a code 13. The sequence of events for code 51 is
> > something like this:
> >
> > Short to ground-->D/M flashes code 13 and sends signal blowing
> > internal fuse preventing unwanted air bag deployment-->D/M continues
> > flashing code 13 while short is present-->short temporarily
> > clears-->D/M now flashes code 51-->short to ground returns-->D/M
> > flashes code 13 and so on....
> >
> > Looks like you might want to continue inspecting the three crash
> > sensors and associated wiring in the engine compartment. Sounds like
> > there may be an intermittent pinched wire against body sheetmetal
> > somewhere. Also keep monitoring the indicator to see if code 13
> > surfaces. And lastly, the D/M is located behind the lower center
> > instrument panal...
> >
> > --
> > Mike
> > 93 Cobra
>
> Mike,
>
> After reading the links and your post, I now see what's happening. I've
> been keeping an eye on the air bag light, and it never reverts back to a
> code 13 - it's always 51. I've gone in there and checked around all 3
> crash sensors and everything seems fine. Haven't seen any exposed or
> pinched wiring at all.
>
> Because the intermittent short has never returned, I'm wondering if the
> shop somehow shorted out the wiring during reassembly (IOW, the battery
> was connected at some point during reassembly). Would that explain why
> (a) the DM blew in the first place and (b) why it's not throwing code
> 13?

Yes, but the question is whether the short to ground has cleared completely
and whether you risk blowing another DM replacement. You might want to call
the dealer parts department and get a cost figure.


> I've also heard that the DM could simply go bad without experiencing an
> actual short. True? Theoretically, if the new replacement unit doesn't
> see another intermittent short, it will be fine, correct?

From what I've read, yes and yes.

> Finally, is the DM down behind the radio near the console or up in where
> the air ducts go? IOW, will I have to disassemble part of the dash to
> get to it, or can I just remove the center console that houses the radio
> and HVAC controls?

Behind the radio (possibly lower). I'd try removing the glove compartment
box and look inside to the left for a rectangular box with two harness
connectors attached. Just to be on the safe side, PLEASE USE CAUTION and
disconnect the battery first. The back up power supply should be disarmed
with the internal fuse blown, but why take the chance. Disconnecting the
battery and waiting a few minutes should also discharge the back up.
Play it safe Joe. I'm only going by Helms, not from personal experience..

> Thanks again for all your invaluable help!
>
> Joe
> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

--
Mike
93 Cobra

(Mike R) wrote in
:

> In article >, Joe
> > wrote:
>
>> (Mike R) wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > In article >, Joe
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> <snip>
>> >> >>> >> >> > With front
>> >> >>> >> >> > end body work recently done, I'd check around the
>> >> >>> >> >> > right/center/left crash sensors and associated
>> >> >>> >> >> > wiring and harness connectors. The RH and LH sensors
>> >> >>> >> >> > are located at their respective sides of the upper
>> >> >>> >> >> > radiator support, behind the headlamps and the
>> >> >>> >> >> > center sensor at the middle upper radiator
>> >> >>> >> >> > support...
>> >> >>> >> >> >
>> >> >>> >> >> > --
>> >> >>> >> >> > Mike
>> >> >>> >> >> > 93 Cobra
>> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >>> >> >> I will certainly do that. Thanks for the tip, Mike.
>> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >>> >> >> Joe
>> >> >>> >> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> >> >>> >> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >> >>> >> >
>> >> >>> >> > Joe, are you having battery charging issues of late???
>> >> >>> >> > The diagnostic monitor may be flashing a code 12 for
>> >> >>> >> > low battery. This might also explain reving of the
>> >> >>> >> > engine causing the lamp to extinguish. Make sense???
>> >> >>> >> > Maybe a bad regulator or alternator. Also, if you
>> >> >>> >> > haven't done so yet, check fuse #7 (15amp).
>> >> >>> >> >
>> >> >>> >> > --
>> >> >>> >> > Mike
>> >> >>> >> > 93 Cobra
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> Yes, in fact, I am having battery charging issues. The
>> >> >>> >> underdrives on the car are killing the battery - at idle
>> >> >>> >> it's constantly discharging. Forget about it if the a/c
>> >> >>> >> or lights are on.
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> The alternator (stock replacement) is only about 18
>> >> >>> >> months old give or take, and the battery is less than a
>> >> >>> >> year. Since I bought the car (I'm the original owner)
>> >> >>> >> I've never ever seen
>> >> the
>> >> >>> >> air bag light go on except for start up and
>> >> >>> >> key-on-engine-off. The bag has never popped, either.
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> So does the air-bag light flash codes? I've never heard
>> >> >>> >> of that.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Yeah, the Diagnostic Monitor will display a DTC
>> >> >>> > representing a two digit number when detecting a fault. No
>> >> >>> > memory mind you
>> >> after
>> >> >>> > the key is turned off. You got to do it on the fly. So,
>> >> >>> > for instance DTC 12 (low battery voltage) would be:
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Flash (one second pause) - flash flash (three second
>> >> >>> > pause) and then it repeats.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > This particular code caught my attention after thinking
>> >> >>> > about your original post. More so now than the front crash
>> >> >>> > sensors
>> >> with
>> >> >>> > recent body work, but don't count those out. Right now,
>> >> >>> > it's important to pull the code to narrow this down.
>> >> >>> > The D/M monitors (among other things) battery voltage via
>> >> >>> > fuse # 7. Don't forget to check this fuse. If it's blown,
>> >> >>> > we need to figure why. If you have a voltmeter, measure
>> >> >>> > the battery
>> >> directly
>> >> >>> > while the engine idles vs reving and note any voltage
>> >> >>> > swing. Obviously, you've got a charging problem here. BTW,
>> >> >>> > anything lower than 9 volts will trigger the D/M to flash
>> >> >>> > a DTC 12.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >>But the discharging is certainly an issue.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > It certainly is. Fix that first and maybe the air bag
>> >> >>> > issue will resolve itself.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >> Again, thanks for the tip. All good stuff to check out.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Yep, good luck with it...
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >> Joe
>> >> >>> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> >> >>> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Mike
>> >> >>> > 93 Cobra
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Mike, you know it never occurred to me that the air bag
>> >> >>> light was actually displaying a code by blinking. Now I'll
>> >> >>> have to go check it out and see what it's telling me. And I
>> >> >>> will check the fuses
>> >> as
>> >> >>> well. Again, thanks very much.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> BTW, is there a web site or something that contains all the
>> >> >>> codes and what they mean?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Joe
>> >> >>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> >> >>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I just found this:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/9doou
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you're interested in a schematic:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ex3mt
>> >> >>
>> >> >> FYI. The D/M monitors battery voltage at pin 13 via fuse #7
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Time for some coffee...HTH
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Mike
>> >> >> 93 Cobra
>> >>
>> >> Mike, it's throwing code 51 which is 'Diagnostic monitor
>> >> internal thermal fuse open'. Fuse # 7 is good, btw.
>> >>
>> >> Here's the excerpt from one of the links you posted:
>> >> "If the AIR BAG readiness lamp is flashing a Fault Code 51 and a
>> >> short to ground has not been serviced, this means that an
>> >> intermittent short to ground exists in the air bag system. The
>> >> diagnostic monitor will eventually have to be replaced but only
>> >> after a visual inspection leads to the repair of a short to
>> >> ground in the wiring harness."
>> >>
>> >> At this point, my question is: After I find and fix the short to
>> >> ground, do I have to replace the diagnostic monitor? If so,
>> >> where is it?
>> >>
>> >> Joe
>> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >
>> > Yes, you have to find the short to ground before replacing the
>> > D/M, otherwise you risk the chance of destroying the replacement.
>> > Code 51 is actually indicating the internal fuse is blown and the
>> > short to ground is not present. If the intermittent short
>> > returns, the D/M will flash a code 13. The sequence of events for
>> > code 51 is something like this:
>> >
>> > Short to ground-->D/M flashes code 13 and sends signal blowing
>> > internal fuse preventing unwanted air bag deployment-->D/M
>> > continues flashing code 13 while short is present-->short
>> > temporarily clears-->D/M now flashes code 51-->short to ground
>> > returns-->D/M flashes code 13 and so on....
>> >
>> > Looks like you might want to continue inspecting the three crash
>> > sensors and associated wiring in the engine compartment. Sounds
>> > like there may be an intermittent pinched wire against body
>> > sheetmetal somewhere. Also keep monitoring the indicator to see
>> > if code 13 surfaces. And lastly, the D/M is located behind the
>> > lower center instrument panal...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mike
>> > 93 Cobra
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> After reading the links and your post, I now see what's happening.
>> I've been keeping an eye on the air bag light, and it never reverts
>> back to a code 13 - it's always 51. I've gone in there and checked
>> around all 3 crash sensors and everything seems fine. Haven't seen
>> any exposed or pinched wiring at all.
>>
>> Because the intermittent short has never returned, I'm wondering if
>> the shop somehow shorted out the wiring during reassembly (IOW, the
>> battery was connected at some point during reassembly). Would that
>> explain why (a) the DM blew in the first place and (b) why it's not
>> throwing code 13?
>
> Yes, but the question is whether the short to ground has cleared
> completely and whether you risk blowing another DM replacement. You
> might want to call the dealer parts department and get a cost
> figure.

Already did that today - it's $217 from the dealer.

>> I've also heard that the DM could simply go bad without
>> experiencing an actual short. True? Theoretically, if the new
>> replacement unit doesn't see another intermittent short, it will be
>> fine, correct?
>
> From what I've read, yes and yes.

So if I never see a code 13 after examining the wiring for shorts or
crimps, I'll assume that I can put a new DM in without problems.

>> Finally, is the DM down behind the radio near the console or up in
>> where the air ducts go? IOW, will I have to disassemble part of
>> the dash to get to it, or can I just remove the center console that
>> houses the radio and HVAC controls?
>
> Behind the radio (possibly lower). I'd try removing the glove
> compartment box and look inside to the left for a rectangular box
> with two harness connectors attached. Just to be on the safe side,
> PLEASE USE CAUTION and disconnect the battery first. The back up
> power supply should be disarmed with the internal fuse blown, but
> why take the chance. Disconnecting the battery and waiting a few
> minutes should also discharge the back up. Play it safe Joe. I'm
> only going by Helms, not from personal experience..
> --
> Mike
> 93 Cobra

Without a doubt. Before I do anything the battery will have been
disconnected for a few hours.

Mike, does Helms say anything about the size of the screws securing
the DM? I'll bet they're torx bits too...

Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

In article >, Joe
> wrote:

> (Mike R) wrote in
> :
>
> > In article >, Joe
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> (Mike R) wrote in
> >> :
> >>
> >> > In article >, Joe
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >> >>> >> >> > With front
> >> >> >>> >> >> > end body work recently done, I'd check around the
> >> >> >>> >> >> > right/center/left crash sensors and associated
> >> >> >>> >> >> > wiring and harness connectors. The RH and LH sensors
> >> >> >>> >> >> > are located at their respective sides of the upper
> >> >> >>> >> >> > radiator support, behind the headlamps and the
> >> >> >>> >> >> > center sensor at the middle upper radiator
> >> >> >>> >> >> > support...
> >> >> >>> >> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> >> > --
> >> >> >>> >> >> > Mike
> >> >> >>> >> >> > 93 Cobra
> >> >> >>> >> >>
> >> >> >>> >> >> I will certainly do that. Thanks for the tip, Mike.
> >> >> >>> >> >>
> >> >> >>> >> >> Joe
> >> >> >>> >> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >> >> >>> >> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> > Joe, are you having battery charging issues of late???
> >> >> >>> >> > The diagnostic monitor may be flashing a code 12 for
> >> >> >>> >> > low battery. This might also explain reving of the
> >> >> >>> >> > engine causing the lamp to extinguish. Make sense???
> >> >> >>> >> > Maybe a bad regulator or alternator. Also, if you
> >> >> >>> >> > haven't done so yet, check fuse #7 (15amp).
> >> >> >>> >> >
> >> >> >>> >> > --
> >> >> >>> >> > Mike
> >> >> >>> >> > 93 Cobra
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >> Yes, in fact, I am having battery charging issues. The
> >> >> >>> >> underdrives on the car are killing the battery - at idle
> >> >> >>> >> it's constantly discharging. Forget about it if the a/c
> >> >> >>> >> or lights are on.
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >> The alternator (stock replacement) is only about 18
> >> >> >>> >> months old give or take, and the battery is less than a
> >> >> >>> >> year. Since I bought the car (I'm the original owner)
> >> >> >>> >> I've never ever seen
> >> >> the
> >> >> >>> >> air bag light go on except for start up and
> >> >> >>> >> key-on-engine-off. The bag has never popped, either.
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >> So does the air-bag light flash codes? I've never heard
> >> >> >>> >> of that.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Yeah, the Diagnostic Monitor will display a DTC
> >> >> >>> > representing a two digit number when detecting a fault. No
> >> >> >>> > memory mind you
> >> >> after
> >> >> >>> > the key is turned off. You got to do it on the fly. So,
> >> >> >>> > for instance DTC 12 (low battery voltage) would be:
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Flash (one second pause) - flash flash (three second
> >> >> >>> > pause) and then it repeats.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > This particular code caught my attention after thinking
> >> >> >>> > about your original post. More so now than the front crash
> >> >> >>> > sensors
> >> >> with
> >> >> >>> > recent body work, but don't count those out. Right now,
> >> >> >>> > it's important to pull the code to narrow this down.
> >> >> >>> > The D/M monitors (among other things) battery voltage via
> >> >> >>> > fuse # 7. Don't forget to check this fuse. If it's blown,
> >> >> >>> > we need to figure why. If you have a voltmeter, measure
> >> >> >>> > the battery
> >> >> directly
> >> >> >>> > while the engine idles vs reving and note any voltage
> >> >> >>> > swing. Obviously, you've got a charging problem here. BTW,
> >> >> >>> > anything lower than 9 volts will trigger the D/M to flash
> >> >> >>> > a DTC 12.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >>But the discharging is certainly an issue.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > It certainly is. Fix that first and maybe the air bag
> >> >> >>> > issue will resolve itself.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >> Again, thanks for the tip. All good stuff to check out.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Yep, good luck with it...
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >> Joe
> >> >> >>> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >> >> >>> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Mike
> >> >> >>> > 93 Cobra
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Mike, you know it never occurred to me that the air bag
> >> >> >>> light was actually displaying a code by blinking. Now I'll
> >> >> >>> have to go check it out and see what it's telling me. And I
> >> >> >>> will check the fuses
> >> >> as
> >> >> >>> well. Again, thanks very much.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> BTW, is there a web site or something that contains all the
> >> >> >>> codes and what they mean?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Joe
> >> >> >>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >> >> >>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I just found this:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/9doou
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If you're interested in a schematic:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ex3mt
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> FYI. The D/M monitors battery voltage at pin 13 via fuse #7
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Time for some coffee...HTH
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Mike
> >> >> >> 93 Cobra
> >> >>
> >> >> Mike, it's throwing code 51 which is 'Diagnostic monitor
> >> >> internal thermal fuse open'. Fuse # 7 is good, btw.
> >> >>
> >> >> Here's the excerpt from one of the links you posted:
> >> >> "If the AIR BAG readiness lamp is flashing a Fault Code 51 and a
> >> >> short to ground has not been serviced, this means that an
> >> >> intermittent short to ground exists in the air bag system. The
> >> >> diagnostic monitor will eventually have to be replaced but only
> >> >> after a visual inspection leads to the repair of a short to
> >> >> ground in the wiring harness."
> >> >>
> >> >> At this point, my question is: After I find and fix the short to
> >> >> ground, do I have to replace the diagnostic monitor? If so,
> >> >> where is it?
> >> >>
> >> >> Joe
> >> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> >> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
> >> >
> >> > Yes, you have to find the short to ground before replacing the
> >> > D/M, otherwise you risk the chance of destroying the replacement.
> >> > Code 51 is actually indicating the internal fuse is blown and the
> >> > short to ground is not present. If the intermittent short
> >> > returns, the D/M will flash a code 13. The sequence of events for
> >> > code 51 is something like this:
> >> >
> >> > Short to ground-->D/M flashes code 13 and sends signal blowing
> >> > internal fuse preventing unwanted air bag deployment-->D/M
> >> > continues flashing code 13 while short is present-->short
> >> > temporarily clears-->D/M now flashes code 51-->short to ground
> >> > returns-->D/M flashes code 13 and so on....
> >> >
> >> > Looks like you might want to continue inspecting the three crash
> >> > sensors and associated wiring in the engine compartment. Sounds
> >> > like there may be an intermittent pinched wire against body
> >> > sheetmetal somewhere. Also keep monitoring the indicator to see
> >> > if code 13 surfaces. And lastly, the D/M is located behind the
> >> > lower center instrument panal...
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Mike
> >> > 93 Cobra
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> After reading the links and your post, I now see what's happening.
> >> I've been keeping an eye on the air bag light, and it never reverts
> >> back to a code 13 - it's always 51. I've gone in there and checked
> >> around all 3 crash sensors and everything seems fine. Haven't seen
> >> any exposed or pinched wiring at all.
> >>
> >> Because the intermittent short has never returned, I'm wondering if
> >> the shop somehow shorted out the wiring during reassembly (IOW, the
> >> battery was connected at some point during reassembly). Would that
> >> explain why (a) the DM blew in the first place and (b) why it's not
> >> throwing code 13?
> >
> > Yes, but the question is whether the short to ground has cleared
> > completely and whether you risk blowing another DM replacement. You
> > might want to call the dealer parts department and get a cost
> > figure.
>
> Already did that today - it's $217 from the dealer.

Wonder if a salvage yard would sell you one.

> >> I've also heard that the DM could simply go bad without
> >> experiencing an actual short. True? Theoretically, if the new
> >> replacement unit doesn't see another intermittent short, it will be
> >> fine, correct?
> >
> > From what I've read, yes and yes.
>
> So if I never see a code 13 after examining the wiring for shorts or
> crimps, I'll assume that I can put a new DM in without problems.

If there's a $217.00 guarantee to never...

> >> Finally, is the DM down behind the radio near the console or up in
> >> where the air ducts go? IOW, will I have to disassemble part of
> >> the dash to get to it, or can I just remove the center console that
> >> houses the radio and HVAC controls?
> >
> > Behind the radio (possibly lower). I'd try removing the glove
> > compartment box and look inside to the left for a rectangular box
> > with two harness connectors attached. Just to be on the safe side,
> > PLEASE USE CAUTION and disconnect the battery first. The back up
> > power supply should be disarmed with the internal fuse blown, but
> > why take the chance. Disconnecting the battery and waiting a few
> > minutes should also discharge the back up. Play it safe Joe. I'm
> > only going by Helms, not from personal experience..
> > --
> > Mike
> > 93 Cobra
>
> Without a doubt. Before I do anything the battery will have been
> disconnected for a few hours.
>
> Mike, does Helms say anything about the size of the screws securing
> the DM? I'll bet they're torx bits too...

Here's a better description on location and removal:

Diagnostic Monitor Removal

1) Disconnect positive battery cable.
2) Remove radio. Diagnostic module is the blue box w/two connectors
mounted below the climate control head.
3) Disconnect diagnostic monitor connectors.
4) Remove screws retaining diagnostic monitor and braket assy to
instrument panal brace and remove assy.

The screws look like hex heads. Possibly phillips hex. They say four
required, but I only see two locations in the drawing. Looks straight
forward as long as Murphy's not looking over your shoulder :-0

> Joe
> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

--
Mike
93 Cobra

(Mike R) wrote in news:svt-cobra-
:

> In article >, Joe
> > wrote:
>
>> (Mike R) wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > In article >, Joe
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> (Mike R) wrote in
>> >> :
>> >>
>> >> > In article >, Joe
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> <snip>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > With front
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > end body work recently done, I'd check around the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > right/center/left crash sensors and associated
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > wiring and harness connectors. The RH and LH
sensors
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > are located at their respective sides of the
upper
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > radiator support, behind the headlamps and the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > center sensor at the middle upper radiator
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > support...
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > Mike
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > 93 Cobra
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> I will certainly do that. Thanks for the tip,
Mike.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> Joe
>> >> >> >>> >> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few
goodies
>> >> >> >>> >> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >> >> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >> > Joe, are you having battery charging issues of
late???
>> >> >> >>> >> > The diagnostic monitor may be flashing a code 12 for
>> >> >> >>> >> > low battery. This might also explain reving of the
>> >> >> >>> >> > engine causing the lamp to extinguish. Make sense???
>> >> >> >>> >> > Maybe a bad regulator or alternator. Also, if you
>> >> >> >>> >> > haven't done so yet, check fuse #7 (15amp).
>> >> >> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >> > --
>> >> >> >>> >> > Mike
>> >> >> >>> >> > 93 Cobra
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> Yes, in fact, I am having battery charging issues.
The
>> >> >> >>> >> underdrives on the car are killing the battery - at
idle
>> >> >> >>> >> it's constantly discharging. Forget about it if the
a/c
>> >> >> >>> >> or lights are on.
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> The alternator (stock replacement) is only about 18
>> >> >> >>> >> months old give or take, and the battery is less than
a
>> >> >> >>> >> year. Since I bought the car (I'm the original owner)
>> >> >> >>> >> I've never ever seen
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> air bag light go on except for start up and
>> >> >> >>> >> key-on-engine-off. The bag has never popped, either.
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> So does the air-bag light flash codes? I've never
heard
>> >> >> >>> >> of that.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Yeah, the Diagnostic Monitor will display a DTC
>> >> >> >>> > representing a two digit number when detecting a fault.
No
>> >> >> >>> > memory mind you
>> >> >> after
>> >> >> >>> > the key is turned off. You got to do it on the fly. So,
>> >> >> >>> > for instance DTC 12 (low battery voltage) would be:
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Flash (one second pause) - flash flash (three second
>> >> >> >>> > pause) and then it repeats.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > This particular code caught my attention after thinking
>> >> >> >>> > about your original post. More so now than the front
crash
>> >> >> >>> > sensors
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> >>> > recent body work, but don't count those out. Right now,
>> >> >> >>> > it's important to pull the code to narrow this down.
>> >> >> >>> > The D/M monitors (among other things) battery voltage
via
>> >> >> >>> > fuse # 7. Don't forget to check this fuse. If it's
blown,
>> >> >> >>> > we need to figure why. If you have a voltmeter, measure
>> >> >> >>> > the battery
>> >> >> directly
>> >> >> >>> > while the engine idles vs reving and note any voltage
>> >> >> >>> > swing. Obviously, you've got a charging problem here.
BTW,
>> >> >> >>> > anything lower than 9 volts will trigger the D/M to
flash
>> >> >> >>> > a DTC 12.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >>But the discharging is certainly an issue.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > It certainly is. Fix that first and maybe the air bag
>> >> >> >>> > issue will resolve itself.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >> Again, thanks for the tip. All good stuff to check
out.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Yep, good luck with it...
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >> Joe
>> >> >> >>> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> >> >> >>> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Mike
>> >> >> >>> > 93 Cobra
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Mike, you know it never occurred to me that the air bag
>> >> >> >>> light was actually displaying a code by blinking. Now
I'll
>> >> >> >>> have to go check it out and see what it's telling me.
And I
>> >> >> >>> will check the fuses
>> >> >> as
>> >> >> >>> well. Again, thanks very much.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> BTW, is there a web site or something that contains all
the
>> >> >> >>> codes and what they mean?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Joe
>> >> >> >>> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> >> >> >>> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I just found this:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/9doou
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> If you're interested in a schematic:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ex3mt
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> FYI. The D/M monitors battery voltage at pin 13 via fuse #
7
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Time for some coffee...HTH
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Mike
>> >> >> >> 93 Cobra
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mike, it's throwing code 51 which is 'Diagnostic monitor
>> >> >> internal thermal fuse open'. Fuse # 7 is good, btw.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Here's the excerpt from one of the links you posted:
>> >> >> "If the AIR BAG readiness lamp is flashing a Fault Code 51
and a
>> >> >> short to ground has not been serviced, this means that an
>> >> >> intermittent short to ground exists in the air bag system.
The
>> >> >> diagnostic monitor will eventually have to be replaced but
only
>> >> >> after a visual inspection leads to the repair of a short to
>> >> >> ground in the wiring harness."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At this point, my question is: After I find and fix the short
to
>> >> >> ground, do I have to replace the diagnostic monitor? If so,
>> >> >> where is it?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Joe
>> >> >> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
>> >> >> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, you have to find the short to ground before replacing the
>> >> > D/M, otherwise you risk the chance of destroying the
replacement.
>> >> > Code 51 is actually indicating the internal fuse is blown and
the
>> >> > short to ground is not present. If the intermittent short
>> >> > returns, the D/M will flash a code 13. The sequence of events
for
>> >> > code 51 is something like this:
>> >> >
>> >> > Short to ground-->D/M flashes code 13 and sends signal blowing
>> >> > internal fuse preventing unwanted air bag deployment-->D/M
>> >> > continues flashing code 13 while short is present-->short
>> >> > temporarily clears-->D/M now flashes code 51-->short to ground
>> >> > returns-->D/M flashes code 13 and so on....
>> >> >
>> >> > Looks like you might want to continue inspecting the three
crash
>> >> > sensors and associated wiring in the engine compartment.
Sounds
>> >> > like there may be an intermittent pinched wire against body
>> >> > sheetmetal somewhere. Also keep monitoring the indicator to
see
>> >> > if code 13 surfaces. And lastly, the D/M is located behind the
>> >> > lower center instrument panal...
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Mike
>> >> > 93 Cobra
>> >>
>> >> Mike,
>> >>
>> >> After reading the links and your post, I now see what's
happening.
>> >> I've been keeping an eye on the air bag light, and it never
reverts
>> >> back to a code 13 - it's always 51. I've gone in there and
checked
>> >> around all 3 crash sensors and everything seems fine. Haven't
seen
>> >> any exposed or pinched wiring at all.
>> >>
>> >> Because the intermittent short has never returned, I'm wondering
if
>> >> the shop somehow shorted out the wiring during reassembly (IOW,
the
>> >> battery was connected at some point during reassembly). Would
that
>> >> explain why (a) the DM blew in the first place and (b) why it's
not
>> >> throwing code 13?
>> >
>> > Yes, but the question is whether the short to ground has cleared
>> > completely and whether you risk blowing another DM replacement.
You
>> > might want to call the dealer parts department and get a cost
>> > figure.
>>
>> Already did that today - it's $217 from the dealer.
>
> Wonder if a salvage yard would sell you one.

I've already e-mailed Tim (Musttanguy).

>> >> I've also heard that the DM could simply go bad without
>> >> experiencing an actual short. True? Theoretically, if the new
>> >> replacement unit doesn't see another intermittent short, it will
be
>> >> fine, correct?
>> >
>> > From what I've read, yes and yes.
>>
>> So if I never see a code 13 after examining the wiring for shorts
or
>> crimps, I'll assume that I can put a new DM in without problems.
>
> If there's a $217.00 guarantee to never...

LOL! Well, if I don't see the code 13 again, I'm going for it.

>> >> Finally, is the DM down behind the radio near the console or up
in
>> >> where the air ducts go? IOW, will I have to disassemble part of
>> >> the dash to get to it, or can I just remove the center console
that
>> >> houses the radio and HVAC controls?
>> >
>> > Behind the radio (possibly lower). I'd try removing the glove
>> > compartment box and look inside to the left for a rectangular box
>> > with two harness connectors attached. Just to be on the safe
side,
>> > PLEASE USE CAUTION and disconnect the battery first. The back up
>> > power supply should be disarmed with the internal fuse blown, but
>> > why take the chance. Disconnecting the battery and waiting a few
>> > minutes should also discharge the back up. Play it safe Joe. I'm
>> > only going by Helms, not from personal experience..
>> > --
>> > Mike
>> > 93 Cobra
>>
>> Without a doubt. Before I do anything the battery will have been
>> disconnected for a few hours.
>>
>> Mike, does Helms say anything about the size of the screws securing
>> the DM? I'll bet they're torx bits too...
>
> Here's a better description on location and removal:
>
> Diagnostic Monitor Removal
>
> 1) Disconnect positive battery cable.
> 2) Remove radio. Diagnostic module is the blue box w/two connectors
> mounted below the climate control head.
> 3) Disconnect diagnostic monitor connectors.
> 4) Remove screws retaining diagnostic monitor and braket assy to
> instrument panal brace and remove assy.
>
> The screws look like hex heads. Possibly phillips hex. They say four
> required, but I only see two locations in the drawing. Looks
straight
> forward as long as Murphy's not looking over your shoulder :-0
>
> --
> Mike
> 93 Cobra

Cool. Thanks for the removal instructions. I'll let you know about
Murphy when I tackle the job.

Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC