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A Spark is a Spark is a Spark



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 12th 05, 02:00 AM
aarcuda69062
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
RV > wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:52:48 -0400, "RoB"
> > wrote:
>
> >I am looking at replacing my spark plugs in a 3.8l GM engine (high mileage)
> >and was looking at those NGK G-Power Plugs but a friend of mine says just
> >put the cheapy AC Delco, because the platinum won't make any difference
> >except possible quicker starts, but not worth the money... Is there any
> >performance difference between copper plugs and platinum?
> >Any suggestions would be appreciated..
> >

>
> You either have a combustion chamber configuration or compression
> ratio suitable for platinum plugs, or you don't.
> If you dont then dont run plat plugs.
> If the car manufactuers says run plat plugs, then you do have the CC
> for it and should run them.


Absolute rubbish. Neither compression ratio or combustion
chamber design dictate whether platinum spark plugs should be
used.
Platinum plugs are strictly a maintenance sell.

> If you need to run plat plugs it is for longer life requirments of the
> engine ignition maker, if you dont run them copper plugs will wear too
> quickly sending the ignition out of normal KV working range.


Actually, miss-firing occurs much before KV limits are reached,
miss-fires being a big no-no as far as emissions are concerned.

> If you dont have the CC for plat plugs and run them, they will more
> likely partially fail, possibly poor idle, unless, you are running a
> higher compression ratio as in racing, then plat plugs are suitable,
> if not desirable.


Racing would be about the worst place to run a platinum spark
plug.

> So its CC config (valve postion) or CR fuel that determines if you use
> plat plugs.


Malarky.

> If you have the CC that is configured the clean the plug tips, then
> use them., if you have heaps of CR then the heat will keep them clean
> enough such as with racing.


Double malarky.

> If you dont have the CR for them, or dont have the CC for them to keep
> the plat plugs clean, they will most likely fouled or as we say for
> plat plugs, contaminated.


We?

> If you have the CC config for plat plugs they are good to go at all
> engine temps as in standard cars that use them, if you have big CR as
> in racing, then you may need to use coppers to warm the engine, then
> swap to plats, or you may have trouble starting and dirty a new set of
> plats starting it.


Who invents this crap?

> Hope that helps.


I don't think it did...
Ads
  #12  
Old June 12th 05, 09:17 AM
RV
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 01:00:18 GMT, aarcuda69062
> wrote:

>In article >,
> RV > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:52:48 -0400, "RoB"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >I am looking at replacing my spark plugs in a 3.8l GM engine (high mileage)
>> >and was looking at those NGK G-Power Plugs but a friend of mine says just
>> >put the cheapy AC Delco, because the platinum won't make any difference
>> >except possible quicker starts, but not worth the money... Is there any
>> >performance difference between copper plugs and platinum?
>> >Any suggestions would be appreciated..
>> >

>>
>> You either have a combustion chamber configuration or compression
>> ratio suitable for platinum plugs, or you don't.
>> If you dont then dont run plat plugs.
>> If the car manufactuers says run plat plugs, then you do have the CC
>> for it and should run them.

>
>Absolute rubbish. Neither compression ratio or combustion
>chamber design dictate whether platinum spark plugs should be
>used.
>Platinum plugs are strictly a maintenance sell.


So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic

>
>> If you need to run plat plugs it is for longer life requirments of the
>> engine ignition maker, if you dont run them copper plugs will wear too
>> quickly sending the ignition out of normal KV working range.

>
>Actually, miss-firing occurs much before KV limits are reached,
>miss-fires being a big no-no as far as emissions are concerned.


So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic

>
>> If you dont have the CC for plat plugs and run them, they will more
>> likely partially fail, possibly poor idle, unless, you are running a
>> higher compression ratio as in racing, then plat plugs are suitable,
>> if not desirable.

>
>Racing would be about the worst place to run a platinum spark
>plug.


So youre not a qualified motor mechanic and never raced anything but
your mouth.

>
>> So its CC config (valve postion) or CR fuel that determines if you use
>> plat plugs.

>
>Malarky.


So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic

>
>> If you have the CC that is configured the clean the plug tips, then
>> use them., if you have heaps of CR then the heat will keep them clean
>> enough such as with racing.

>
>Double malarky.


So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic

>
>> If you dont have the CR for them, or dont have the CC for them to keep
>> the plat plugs clean, they will most likely fouled or as we say for
>> plat plugs, contaminated.

>


Yes we motor mechanics like me who are qualified with 24 yrs working
experience in the trade.

>
>> If you have the CC config for plat plugs they are good to go at all
>> engine temps as in standard cars that use them, if you have big CR as
>> in racing, then you may need to use coppers to warm the engine, then
>> swap to plats, or you may have trouble starting and dirty a new set of
>> plats starting it.

>
>Who invents this crap?


Engineers.

>
>> Hope that helps.

>
>I don't think it did...


No surprise its no help to you.


  #13  
Old June 12th 05, 09:27 AM
RV
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 00:31:56 GMT, y_p_w > wrote:

>
>
>RV wrote:
>
>> If you need to run plat plugs it is for longer life requirments of the
>> engine ignition maker, if you dont run them copper plugs will wear too
>> quickly sending the ignition out of normal KV working range.

>
>Sure. GM wanted a 100K mile "tune up". A standard plug should work
>fine but won't last as long. I hate the term "copper plug" since
>copper cores are the same in standard, platinum, or iridium plugs.
>The electrodes are some sort of nickel alloy.


Copper plugs isnt used as an explicit term, more slang for standard
plugs.
Names used generally refer to the plating not the core.
So long as you know what is refered to is all that matters to the
topic..
If you go to the parts store and ask for plat plugs or copper plugs
they wont ask you what core you want and will know what you are
refering to.

>
>There are some applications where a platinum or iridium plug is
>absolutely necessary. My 1995 Acura Integra spec'ed a 1.3 mm gap
>and my guess is that a standard plug wouldn't last the 30K miles
>that they normal give for regular plugs. The platinum plug was
>spec'ed for 60K miles.


Longer life is the upside, but the downside is easier to contaminate
long before they are "worn"
The GM and the Honda obviously both keep them clean enough to last the
longer period, not all engines will.


  #14  
Old June 12th 05, 11:27 AM
Nate Nagel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

RV wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 01:00:18 GMT, aarcuda69062
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
>>RV > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:52:48 -0400, "RoB"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am looking at replacing my spark plugs in a 3.8l GM engine (high mileage)
>>>>and was looking at those NGK G-Power Plugs but a friend of mine says just
>>>>put the cheapy AC Delco, because the platinum won't make any difference
>>>>except possible quicker starts, but not worth the money... Is there any
>>>>performance difference between copper plugs and platinum?
>>>>Any suggestions would be appreciated..
>>>>
>>>
>>>You either have a combustion chamber configuration or compression
>>>ratio suitable for platinum plugs, or you don't.
>>>If you dont then dont run plat plugs.
>>>If the car manufactuers says run plat plugs, then you do have the CC
>>>for it and should run them.

>>
>>Absolute rubbish. Neither compression ratio or combustion
>>chamber design dictate whether platinum spark plugs should be
>>used.
>>Platinum plugs are strictly a maintenance sell.

>
>
> So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic


He's right, you're wrong, get over yourself already.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #15  
Old June 12th 05, 12:54 PM
aarcuda69062
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
RV > wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 01:00:18 GMT, aarcuda69062
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > RV > wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:52:48 -0400, "RoB"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >I am looking at replacing my spark plugs in a 3.8l GM engine (high
> >> >mileage)
> >> >and was looking at those NGK G-Power Plugs but a friend of mine says just
> >> >put the cheapy AC Delco, because the platinum won't make any difference
> >> >except possible quicker starts, but not worth the money... Is there any
> >> >performance difference between copper plugs and platinum?
> >> >Any suggestions would be appreciated..
> >> >
> >>
> >> You either have a combustion chamber configuration or compression
> >> ratio suitable for platinum plugs, or you don't.
> >> If you dont then dont run plat plugs.
> >> If the car manufactuers says run plat plugs, then you do have the CC
> >> for it and should run them.

> >
> >Absolute rubbish. Neither compression ratio or combustion
> >chamber design dictate whether platinum spark plugs should be
> >used.
> >Platinum plugs are strictly a maintenance sell.

>
> So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic


Why not... ...apparently you're willing to make some very big
assumptions WRT platinum spark plugs and their purpose of use.

> >
> >> If you need to run plat plugs it is for longer life requirments of the
> >> engine ignition maker, if you dont run them copper plugs will wear too
> >> quickly sending the ignition out of normal KV working range.

> >
> >Actually, miss-firing occurs much before KV limits are reached,
> >miss-fires being a big no-no as far as emissions are concerned.

>
> So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic


You can assume , but you'd be wrong.

> >
> >> If you dont have the CC for plat plugs and run them, they will more
> >> likely partially fail, possibly poor idle, unless, you are running a
> >> higher compression ratio as in racing, then plat plugs are suitable,
> >> if not desirable.

> >
> >Racing would be about the worst place to run a platinum spark
> >plug.

>
> So youre not a qualified motor mechanic and never raced anything but
> your mouth.


Wrong again.
Then again, no one in their right mind would use "racing" as the
basis for explaining something that relates to modern day
emissions durability requirements.

Tell ya what, I have every major spark plug manufacturers catalog
on the shelf, go ahead and cite the maker and catalog page number
where *they* recommend using a platinum spark plug in a racing or
any other heavy duty application.

> >
> >> So its CC config (valve postion) or CR fuel that determines if you use
> >> plat plugs.

> >
> >Malarky.

>
> So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic


Got anything else?

> >
> >> If you have the CC that is configured the clean the plug tips, then
> >> use them., if you have heaps of CR then the heat will keep them clean
> >> enough such as with racing.

> >
> >Double malarky.

>
> So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic


Yawn.

> >
> >> If you dont have the CR for them, or dont have the CC for them to keep
> >> the plat plugs clean, they will most likely fouled or as we say for
> >> plat plugs, contaminated.

> >

>
> Yes we motor mechanics like me who are qualified with 24 yrs working
> experience in the trade.


Oh. Guess my 35 trumps your 24.
ASE Certified Master w/L1, Chevrolet Certified Master,
GM Certified Master, Snap-On/Sun Electric Training Manager,
Senior referee for the State of Wisconsin IM-240 program.

> >
> >> If you have the CC config for plat plugs they are good to go at all
> >> engine temps as in standard cars that use them, if you have big CR as
> >> in racing, then you may need to use coppers to warm the engine, then
> >> swap to plats, or you may have trouble starting and dirty a new set of
> >> plats starting it.

> >
> >Who invents this crap?

>
> Engineers.


Hardly.

> >
> >> Hope that helps.

> >
> >I don't think it did...

>
> No surprise its no help to you.


I'll pass on your help. So should others.

If you care to explain the physics of your concocted beliefs,
have at it. Bear in mind, there are quite a few vehicle
applications that have and have had both platinum and
non-platinum spark plugs specified by the factory, only
difference is model year; same compression ratio, same combustion
chamber design, same valve placement.
So stop with the pseudo-technical bull**** already.
  #16  
Old June 12th 05, 01:03 PM
aarcuda69062
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
RV > wrote:

> >Sure. GM wanted a 100K mile "tune up". A standard plug should work
> >fine but won't last as long. I hate the term "copper plug" since
> >copper cores are the same in standard, platinum, or iridium plugs.
> >The electrodes are some sort of nickel alloy.

>
> Copper plugs isnt used as an explicit term, more slang for standard
> plugs.


Okay, why don't you explain for us the reason that copper is used
in a spark plug?

> Names used generally refer to the plating not the core.


Do you seriously believe that "copper spark plugs" actually have
a copper plating somewhere, and for gods sake, don't tell us it's
on one of the electrodes.

> So long as you know what is refered to is all that matters to the
> topic..


You're side stepping.

> If you go to the parts store and ask for plat plugs or copper plugs
> they wont ask you what core you want and will know what you are
> refering to.


Hardly germane to the technical claims that you've made.

>
> >
> >There are some applications where a platinum or iridium plug is
> >absolutely necessary. My 1995 Acura Integra spec'ed a 1.3 mm gap
> >and my guess is that a standard plug wouldn't last the 30K miles
> >that they normal give for regular plugs. The platinum plug was
> >spec'ed for 60K miles.

>
> Longer life is the upside, but the downside is easier to contaminate
> long before they are "worn"


What happened to compression ratio, combustion chamber design and
valve placement?

> The GM and the Honda obviously both keep them clean enough to last the
> longer period, not all engines will.


Oh, do tell, how do GMs and Hondas magically keep spark plugs
"clean enough?"
  #18  
Old June 12th 05, 04:14 PM
larry moe 'n curly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



aarcuda69062 wrote:

> Platinum plugs are strictly a maintenance sell.


> Racing would be about the worst place to run a platinum spark
> plug.


I'm a novice and have two questions:

1. Why are platinums bad for racing? I thought that they should be
able to fire better than regular plugs because platinum was better at
standing high temperatures.

2. Why are some cars really fussy about the type of plugs? I've heard
of Hondas starting to run funny after a few hundred miles if anything
but NGKs are installed in them, and one person had a VW Golf that ran
funny with anything but a certain Bosch silver core plug. I realize
that modern ignition systems can monitor spark performance and make
adjustments, but shouldn't that make them less fussy about plugs, not
more?

  #19  
Old June 12th 05, 05:14 PM
RV
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 06:27:47 -0400, Nate Nagel >
wrote:

>RV wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 01:00:18 GMT, aarcuda69062
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
>>>RV > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:52:48 -0400, "RoB"
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I am looking at replacing my spark plugs in a 3.8l GM engine (high mileage)
>>>>>and was looking at those NGK G-Power Plugs but a friend of mine says just
>>>>>put the cheapy AC Delco, because the platinum won't make any difference
>>>>>except possible quicker starts, but not worth the money... Is there any
>>>>>performance difference between copper plugs and platinum?
>>>>>Any suggestions would be appreciated..
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You either have a combustion chamber configuration or compression
>>>>ratio suitable for platinum plugs, or you don't.
>>>>If you dont then dont run plat plugs.
>>>>If the car manufactuers says run plat plugs, then you do have the CC
>>>>for it and should run them.
>>>
>>>Absolute rubbish. Neither compression ratio or combustion
>>>chamber design dictate whether platinum spark plugs should be
>>>used.
>>>Platinum plugs are strictly a maintenance sell.

>>
>>
>> So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic

>
>He's right, you're wrong, get over yourself already.


You wouldnt know the diff
  #20  
Old June 12th 05, 05:20 PM
RV
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:54:16 GMT, aarcuda69062
> wrote:

>In article >,
> RV > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 01:00:18 GMT, aarcuda69062
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >In article >,
>> > RV > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:52:48 -0400, "RoB"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I am looking at replacing my spark plugs in a 3.8l GM engine (high
>> >> >mileage)
>> >> >and was looking at those NGK G-Power Plugs but a friend of mine says just
>> >> >put the cheapy AC Delco, because the platinum won't make any difference
>> >> >except possible quicker starts, but not worth the money... Is there any
>> >> >performance difference between copper plugs and platinum?
>> >> >Any suggestions would be appreciated..
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> You either have a combustion chamber configuration or compression
>> >> ratio suitable for platinum plugs, or you don't.
>> >> If you dont then dont run plat plugs.
>> >> If the car manufactuers says run plat plugs, then you do have the CC
>> >> for it and should run them.
>> >
>> >Absolute rubbish. Neither compression ratio or combustion
>> >chamber design dictate whether platinum spark plugs should be
>> >used.
>> >Platinum plugs are strictly a maintenance sell.

>>
>> So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic

>
>Why not... ...apparently you're willing to make some very big
>assumptions WRT platinum spark plugs and their purpose of use.
>
>> >
>> >> If you need to run plat plugs it is for longer life requirments of the
>> >> engine ignition maker, if you dont run them copper plugs will wear too
>> >> quickly sending the ignition out of normal KV working range.
>> >
>> >Actually, miss-firing occurs much before KV limits are reached,
>> >miss-fires being a big no-no as far as emissions are concerned.

>>
>> So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic

>
>You can assume , but you'd be wrong.
>
>> >
>> >> If you dont have the CC for plat plugs and run them, they will more
>> >> likely partially fail, possibly poor idle, unless, you are running a
>> >> higher compression ratio as in racing, then plat plugs are suitable,
>> >> if not desirable.
>> >
>> >Racing would be about the worst place to run a platinum spark
>> >plug.

>>
>> So youre not a qualified motor mechanic and never raced anything but
>> your mouth.

>
>Wrong again.
>Then again, no one in their right mind would use "racing" as the
>basis for explaining something that relates to modern day
>emissions durability requirements.


Horse****, youve never raced and havent a clue about it.

>
>Tell ya what, I have every major spark plug manufacturers catalog
>on the shelf, go ahead and cite the maker and catalog page number
>where *they* recommend using a platinum spark plug in a racing or
>any other heavy duty application.
>


Open your eyes for a change.
Any vehicle that specifies a plug in the book that is a plat plug.

>> >
>> >> So its CC config (valve postion) or CR fuel that determines if you use
>> >> plat plugs.
>> >
>> >Malarky.

>>
>> So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic

>
>Got anything else?
>


More than you so far.

>> >
>> >> If you have the CC that is configured the clean the plug tips, then
>> >> use them., if you have heaps of CR then the heat will keep them clean
>> >> enough such as with racing.
>> >
>> >Double malarky.

>>
>> So we can assume you are not a qualified motor mechanic

>
>Yawn.
>
>> >
>> >> If you dont have the CR for them, or dont have the CC for them to keep
>> >> the plat plugs clean, they will most likely fouled or as we say for
>> >> plat plugs, contaminated.
>> >

>>
>> Yes we motor mechanics like me who are qualified with 24 yrs working
>> experience in the trade.

>
>Oh. Guess my 35 trumps your 24.
>ASE Certified Master w/L1, Chevrolet Certified Master,
>GM Certified Master, Snap-On/Sun Electric Training Manager,
>Senior referee for the State of Wisconsin IM-240 program.


But raced nothin.

>
>> >
>> >> If you have the CC config for plat plugs they are good to go at all
>> >> engine temps as in standard cars that use them, if you have big CR as
>> >> in racing, then you may need to use coppers to warm the engine, then
>> >> swap to plats, or you may have trouble starting and dirty a new set of
>> >> plats starting it.
>> >
>> >Who invents this crap?

>>
>> Engineers.

>
>Hardly.
>
>> >
>> >> Hope that helps.
>> >
>> >I don't think it did...

>>
>> No surprise its no help to you.

>
>I'll pass on your help. So should others.
>


Ill pass on your trolling and lack of any technical points to refute
any of what I wrote.
Just some idiotic crap about plug catalogues you dont have the sense
to read properly.

>If you care to explain the physics of your concocted beliefs,
>have at it.


Make your point or admit your dont have any argument to dispute
anythuing I worte, not one line of it.

> Bear in mind, there are quite a few vehicle
>applications that have and have had both platinum and
>non-platinum spark plugs specified by the factory, only
>difference is model year; same compression ratio, same combustion
>chamber design, same valve placement.
>So stop with the pseudo-technical bull**** already.


And you dont have the sense god gave the common dog to figure out what
that means obviously.

35 yrs on tools, bull****, youre a child.


 




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