Finally, Saturn acknowledges a problem with tail lights on L-Series

After all the talk in this forum about defective tail lights on the
L-Series, Saturn will finally start a recall program... in September

=================
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/b...rn-recall.html
By Ken Thomas
ASSOCIATED PRESS

10:23 a.m. June 3, 2005

WASHINGTON - General Motors Corp. said Friday it would recall nearly 300,000
Saturn L Series sedans and wagons because of problems with brake and tail
lights.
The problem could make it difficult for the driver of another vehicle to
realize the Saturn's brakes were being applied and lead to a rear-end crash,
the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said.

GM, the world's largest automaker, said in some vehicles the plastic coating
in the rear tail lamp assembly could become distorted if the brake light
remains on for an extended period of time. It could make the brake or tail
light inoperable or cause it to short circuit, leading to the failure of
both brake lamps and the center, high-mounted stop lamp.

The defect was found in certain 2000-2002 model years of the L-Series sedan
and 2000-2004 model year L-Series wagon, potentially affecting 291,652
vehicles.

The L-Series went out of production in January.

GM said there has been at least 50 complaints and two crashes - but no
injuries - associated with the problem. The recall is expected to begin in
September.

In April, 22,000 of the L-Series wagons from the 2002-2004 model year were
recalled because they were built with center and passenger side rear seat
belt anchors that did not comply with U.S. and Canadian safety standards.

The automaker has been battling sluggish sales, rising health care costs,
higher gasoline prices and a loss of market share. GM said earlier this week
it would cut third-quarter production by more than 100,000 vehicles, or 9
percent.

GM shares fell 45 cents to $30.79 in afternoon trading on the New York Stock
Exchange.

I was just talking to a friend that was a long time GM owner but finally
gave up after a Malibu disaster. One of the problems he mentioned in that
car was the tail lights. I wonder if this recall will start stretch to
other GM brands.


"Oppie" > wrote in message
news:1118065295.c15b6ee333c8dc94cb18bf7cda325f1f@t eranews...
> After all the talk in this forum about defective tail lights on the
> L-Series, Saturn will finally start a recall program... in September
>
> =================
> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/b...rn-recall.html
> By Ken Thomas
> ASSOCIATED PRESS
>
> 10:23 a.m. June 3, 2005
>
> WASHINGTON - General Motors Corp. said Friday it would recall nearly
> 300,000 Saturn L Series sedans and wagons because of problems with brake
> and tail lights.
> The problem could make it difficult for the driver of another vehicle to
> realize the Saturn's brakes were being applied and lead to a rear-end
> crash, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said.
>
> GM, the world's largest automaker, said in some vehicles the plastic
> coating in the rear tail lamp assembly could become distorted if the brake
> light remains on for an extended period of time. It could make the brake
> or tail light inoperable or cause it to short circuit, leading to the
> failure of both brake lamps and the center, high-mounted stop lamp.
>
> The defect was found in certain 2000-2002 model years of the L-Series
> sedan and 2000-2004 model year L-Series wagon, potentially affecting
> 291,652 vehicles.
>
> The L-Series went out of production in January.
>
> GM said there has been at least 50 complaints and two crashes - but no
> injuries - associated with the problem. The recall is expected to begin in
> September.
>
> In April, 22,000 of the L-Series wagons from the 2002-2004 model year were
> recalled because they were built with center and passenger side rear seat
> belt anchors that did not comply with U.S. and Canadian safety standards.
>
> The automaker has been battling sluggish sales, rising health care costs,
> higher gasoline prices and a loss of market share. GM said earlier this
> week it would cut third-quarter production by more than 100,000 vehicles,
> or 9 percent.
>
> GM shares fell 45 cents to $30.79 in afternoon trading on the New York
> Stock Exchange.
>
>

The article indicates that the recall might focus on the lens when a major
tail lamp issue exists with the circuit boards?
I doubt that the lens will heat up very much if the lamps aren't burning?

--
"Art" > wrote in message
.net...
>I was just talking to a friend that was a long time GM owner but finally
>gave up after a Malibu disaster. One of the problems he mentioned in that
>car was the tail lights. I wonder if this recall will start stretch to
>other GM brands.
>
>
> "Oppie" > wrote in message
> news:1118065295.c15b6ee333c8dc94cb18bf7cda325f1f@t eranews...
>> After all the talk in this forum about defective tail lights on the
>> L-Series, Saturn will finally start a recall program... in September
>>
>> =================
>> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/b...rn-recall.html
>> By Ken Thomas
>> ASSOCIATED PRESS
>>
>> 10:23 a.m. June 3, 2005
>>
>> WASHINGTON - General Motors Corp. said Friday it would recall nearly
>> 300,000 Saturn L Series sedans and wagons because of problems with brake
>> and tail lights.
>> The problem could make it difficult for the driver of another vehicle to
>> realize the Saturn's brakes were being applied and lead to a rear-end
>> crash, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said.
>>
>> GM, the world's largest automaker, said in some vehicles the plastic
>> coating in the rear tail lamp assembly could become distorted if the
>> brake light remains on for an extended period of time. It could make the
>> brake or tail light inoperable or cause it to short circuit, leading to
>> the failure of both brake lamps and the center, high-mounted stop lamp.
>>
>> The defect was found in certain 2000-2002 model years of the L-Series
>> sedan and 2000-2004 model year L-Series wagon, potentially affecting
>> 291,652 vehicles.
>>
>> The L-Series went out of production in January.
>>
>> GM said there has been at least 50 complaints and two crashes - but no
>> injuries - associated with the problem. The recall is expected to begin
>> in September.
>>
>> In April, 22,000 of the L-Series wagons from the 2002-2004 model year
>> were recalled because they were built with center and passenger side rear
>> seat belt anchors that did not comply with U.S. and Canadian safety
>> standards.
>>
>> The automaker has been battling sluggish sales, rising health care costs,
>> higher gasoline prices and a loss of market share. GM said earlier this
>> week it would cut third-quarter production by more than 100,000 vehicles,
>> or 9 percent.
>>
>> GM shares fell 45 cents to $30.79 in afternoon trading on the New York
>> Stock Exchange.
>>
>>
>
>

My experience with it is that the electrical conductors are steel stampings
that are heat sealed onto plastic pins molded into the plastic (abs)
housing. There is not enough contact between the bulb carrier and the steel
stampings. Contacts get hot when a sustained current flows and eventually
causes the steel strips to soften the plastic anchor points. This makes the
contact force even worse and eventually the connection fails.
The design attempted to create a 'high current printed circuit board' but
was flawed due to insufficient contact pressure and high contact resistance.
Makes me wonder what the 'fix' will be. I doubt that Saturn will replace the
tail lamp assemblies. More likely they will use some conductive grease on
the contacts. Not great but do-able. The grease would exclude air,
preventing contact oxidation, improve thermal transfer and lower contact
resistance.

Bob Oppenheimer
Electrical Engineer and professional failure analyst


"snapperhead" > wrote in message
news:UYfpe.12376$MX2.6705@trndny03...
> The article indicates that the recall might focus on the lens when a major
> tail lamp issue exists with the circuit boards?
> I doubt that the lens will heat up very much if the lamps aren't burning?
>

Man, I got alot of L customers that will be ****ed. No doubt dealerships we
will be doing some extra PR to make up for this "fopah". Thank goodness for
warranties.

marx404

marx404 wrote:
> Man, I got alot of L customers that will be ****ed.

Customers are happy, not ****ed, when manufacturers admit a problem and
offer to fix it for free. The dealers can score extra brownie points
with some sort of freebie when the car comes in for the repair.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> marx404 wrote:
>> Man, I got alot of L customers that will be ****ed.
>
> Customers are happy, not ****ed, when manufacturers admit a problem and
> offer to fix it for free. The dealers can score extra brownie points
> with some sort of freebie when the car comes in for the repair.
>

....except that manufacturers usually come up with a cost-effective solution
which is not always the 'right' solution. Then dealer shops are given a
pittance of an allowance in time and money to perform each recall.
Consequently, the dealers want to take their non-warranty (fully chargeable)
customers first and leave warranty repairs for last. Getting something
defective fixed under warranty or recall is nice but having to leave the car
all day for a 10 minute job ****es me off. Least that's what happened with
another car manufacturer. Could be that Saturn is (still?) a different kind
of car company...
Oppie

In article <1118342312.c796ab1dd579ce6f735145f5de175624@teran ews>, Oppie wrote:
> wrote in message
> oups.com...

> ...except that manufacturers usually come up with a cost-effective solution
> which is not always the 'right' solution. Then dealer shops are given a
> pittance of an allowance in time and money to perform each recall.
> Consequently, the dealers want to take their non-warranty (fully chargeable)
> customers first and leave warranty repairs for last. Getting something
> defective fixed under warranty or recall is nice but having to leave the car
> all day for a 10 minute job ****es me off. Least that's what happened with
> another car manufacturer. Could be that Saturn is (still?) a different kind
> of car company...

The last recall work that I had done on my Saturn should have taken
them 30 minutes to perform. They took 30 minutes to perform it. This
was on a Saturday afternoon too. Not bad...

- Dan