Speeding bus driver loses control and kills two innocent people

"laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE" > wrote in message
...
>
> Now watch criminal-coddler america let the driver off with a fine.
>
> http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/11602302.htm
>
> By ELAINE ADAMS
>
> The Kansas City Star
>
>
> Two persons died this morning in a wreck with a school bus at Missouri
> 291 and Missouri 152 in Liberty. The crash left two children in
> critical condition and a third headed to intensive care.
>
> The wreck occurred around 8:30 a.m. when the bus, traveling south on
> Missouri 291, collided with two vehicles on eastbound Missouri 152,
> said Lt. Mark Misenhelter, spokesman for Liberty Police Department.
>
> The two persons who were killed were not in the bus. Their names and
> ages were not immediately released.
>
> (snip)
>
> Woolery said the bus was traveling at a high speed when it uprooted a
> pole, jumped a median and slammed into two vehicles that were side by
> side at the stop light. The bus then plunged into a grassy ditch and
> landed on an embankment above.
>

OK, couldn't read the referenced article, as it is subscription required.
But could you please quote the part of the article which states that the bus
driver was speeding? "High speed" isn't necessarily unlawful, nor even over
the speed limit. This was reported elsewhere as being at the intersection
of two highways. Therefore, the bus could have been going 55 or 65MPH
lawfully (depending on the speed limit). Some reporters might call 55 or
65MPH "high speed".

In any case, even if the bus driver was speeding, what needs to be answered
is . . . what was the primary cause of this traffic collision? To me, it
sounds like the driver lost control (heart attack?, stroke?). The bus could
have been going twice the legal posted limit. But if so, that still doesn't
explain what caused the bus to veer off the highway and hit two vehicles on
a different highway. If we assume for a minute that the bus was indeed
speeding, then the most likely result would be that the bus crossed the
intersection faster than the bus was legally allowed to. THAT didn't
happen, so why didn't it happen? -Dave

Ted B. wrote:
> "laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Now watch criminal-coddler america let the driver off with a fine.
>>
>>http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/11602302.htm
>>
>>By ELAINE ADAMS
>>
>>The Kansas City Star
>>
>>
>>Two persons died this morning in a wreck with a school bus at Missouri
>>291 and Missouri 152 in Liberty. The crash left two children in
>>critical condition and a third headed to intensive care.
>>
>>The wreck occurred around 8:30 a.m. when the bus, traveling south on
>>Missouri 291, collided with two vehicles on eastbound Missouri 152,
>>said Lt. Mark Misenhelter, spokesman for Liberty Police Department.
>>
>>The two persons who were killed were not in the bus. Their names and
>>ages were not immediately released.
>>
>>(snip)
>>
>>Woolery said the bus was traveling at a high speed when it uprooted a
>>pole, jumped a median and slammed into two vehicles that were side by
>>side at the stop light. The bus then plunged into a grassy ditch and
>>landed on an embankment above.
>>
>
>
> OK, couldn't read the referenced article, as it is subscription required.
> But could you please quote the part of the article which states that the bus
> driver was speeding? "High speed" isn't necessarily unlawful, nor even over
> the speed limit. This was reported elsewhere as being at the intersection
> of two highways. Therefore, the bus could have been going 55 or 65MPH
> lawfully (depending on the speed limit). Some reporters might call 55 or
> 65MPH "high speed".
>
> In any case, even if the bus driver was speeding, what needs to be answered
> is . . . what was the primary cause of this traffic collision? To me, it
> sounds like the driver lost control (heart attack?, stroke?). The bus could
> have been going twice the legal posted limit. But if so, that still doesn't
> explain what caused the bus to veer off the highway and hit two vehicles on
> a different highway. If we assume for a minute that the bus was indeed
> speeding, then the most likely result would be that the bus crossed the
> intersection faster than the bus was legally allowed to. THAT didn't
> happen, so why didn't it happen? -Dave
>
>

Preliminary thoughts are that the bus was attempting to make a right
turn at the intersection and blew the turn, striking the two vehicles
which were waiting at the light. This link should give you up-to-date
iinformation without a subscription. It's the local ABC affiliate.
http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/...81/detail.html
A lot of information is still forthcoming. The school district just held
a press conference and didn't have a lot of new stuff to tell. Feds are
on their way and due int his afternoon to investigate, conditions of the
injured will be released by the treating hospitals (three hospitals
received patients from the wreck: North Kansas City, Liberty, and
Children's Mercy)


Karen E.

On Mon, 9 May 2005 15:15:42 -0400, "Ted B." >
wrote:

>
>"laura bush - VEHICULAR HOMICIDE" > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>> Now watch criminal-coddler america let the driver off with a fine.
>>
>> http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/11602302.htm
>>
>> By ELAINE ADAMS
>>
>> The Kansas City Star
>>
>>
>> Two persons died this morning in a wreck with a school bus at Missouri
>> 291 and Missouri 152 in Liberty. The crash left two children in
>> critical condition and a third headed to intensive care.
>>
>> The wreck occurred around 8:30 a.m. when the bus, traveling south on
>> Missouri 291, collided with two vehicles on eastbound Missouri 152,
>> said Lt. Mark Misenhelter, spokesman for Liberty Police Department.
>>
>> The two persons who were killed were not in the bus. Their names and
>> ages were not immediately released.
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>> Woolery said the bus was traveling at a high speed when it uprooted a
>> pole, jumped a median and slammed into two vehicles that were side by
>> side at the stop light. The bus then plunged into a grassy ditch and
>> landed on an embankment above.
>>
>
>OK, couldn't read the referenced article, as it is subscription required.

Nah, it only requires a password:

bugmenot.com is your friend:

luser_id:
password: happy3


>But could you please quote the part of the article which states that the bus
>driver was speeding?

It says no such thing.

>"High speed" isn't necessarily unlawful, nor even over
>the speed limit. This was reported elsewhere as being at the intersection
>of two highways. Therefore, the bus could have been going 55 or 65MPH
>lawfully (depending on the speed limit). Some reporters might call 55 or
>65MPH "high speed".

Only other relevant detail of the actual accident not already quoted
(unless I missed something):

|The bus came to rest on the southwest corner of the intersection of
|the two highways, directly in front of the Platte Valley Bank. The
|intersection, which has a four-way traffic light, is one of the
|busiest in Liberty.

>
>In any case, even if the bus driver was speeding, what needs to be answered
>is . . . what was the primary cause of this traffic collision? To me, it
>sounds like the driver lost control (heart attack?, stroke?). The bus could
>have been going twice the legal posted limit. But if so, that still doesn't
>explain what caused the bus to veer off the highway and hit two vehicles on
>a different highway. If we assume for a minute that the bus was indeed
>speeding, then the most likely result would be that the bus crossed the
>intersection faster than the bus was legally allowed to. THAT didn't
>happen, so why didn't it happen?

I can't tell from that article.

Damn, was this a bad day for school buses or what?

I put "school bus" into Google News and here's a sample:

School Bus Crash In Mo. Leaves Two Dead (that's this one).
Two Die In Miami School Bus Crash
Three injured in car-school bus crash in Brockton (Massachusetts)
Infant killed, five on school bus treated after crash (Lexington, KY)

Maybe that's just a normal day though - I don't usually search the
news for references of school busses.

> -Dave
>

L Sternn wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2005 15:15:42 -0400, "Ted B." >
> wrote:

>>In any case, even if the bus driver was speeding, what needs to be answered
>>is . . . what was the primary cause of this traffic collision? To me, it
>>sounds like the driver lost control (heart attack?, stroke?). The bus could
>>have been going twice the legal posted limit. But if so, that still doesn't
>>explain what caused the bus to veer off the highway and hit two vehicles on
>>a different highway. If we assume for a minute that the bus was indeed
>>speeding, then the most likely result would be that the bus crossed the
>>intersection faster than the bus was legally allowed to. THAT didn't
>>happen, so why didn't it happen?
>
>
> I can't tell from that article.

The current guess is that the driver was trying to make a turn at the
intersection. The standard route for that bus does not turn at that
location, but there's a curving turning lane there and it appears that
that's where the driver was heading but was unable to negotiate it. The
driver is still in the hospital but it sounds as though she's probably
able to talk to investigators.


Karen E>

Ted B. wrote:
>
> In any case, even if the bus driver was speeding, what needs to be
answered
> is . . . what was the primary cause of this traffic collision? To
me, it
> sounds like the driver lost control (heart attack?, stroke?). The
bus could
> have been going twice the legal posted limit. But if so, that still
doesn't
> explain what caused the bus to veer off the highway and hit two
vehicles on
> a different highway. If we assume for a minute that the bus was
indeed
> speeding, then the most likely result would be that the bus crossed
the
> intersection faster than the bus was legally allowed to. THAT didn't

> happen, so why didn't it happen? -Dave

You're a classic criminal coddler. Maybe this driver fell asleep or
maybe he was drunk. Who knows and who cares? This guy lost control of
his vehicle and that makes the deaths his fault, period. If you can't
control your vehicle, don't drive.

>
> Preliminary thoughts are that the bus was attempting to make a right turn
> at the intersection and blew the turn, striking the two vehicles which
> were waiting at the light. This link should give you up-to-date
> iinformation without a subscription. It's the local ABC affiliate.
> http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/...81/detail.html

That article is conflicting. It says the driver of the bus might have been
trying to make a right turn. But then it also says that the route the bus
normally followed would have had the bus continuing STRAIGHT through the
intersection instead of turning right. So we're back where we started. I
don't think the bus driver was trying to turn right. Regardless of whether
the bus driver was speeding or not, it is clear that the bus was going too
fast to make the corner, if that had been the driver's intention.
Therefore, I think the driver was probably not intending to turn right.

My money is still on something happening to the driver shortly before the
incident. (heart attack?, stroke?, diabetic incident?) I think the fact
that this happened at an intersection was coincidence only. A few seconds
earlier or later and the bus might have just rolled over in a ditch. My
theory anyway. -Dave

>> a different highway. If we assume for a minute that the bus was
> indeed
>> speeding, then the most likely result would be that the bus crossed
> the
>> intersection faster than the bus was legally allowed to. THAT didn't
>
>> happen, so why didn't it happen? -Dave
>
> You're a classic criminal coddler. Maybe this driver fell asleep or
> maybe he was drunk. Who knows and who cares? This guy lost control of
> his vehicle and that makes the deaths his fault, period. If you can't
> control your vehicle, don't drive.
>

Other than the "criminal coddler" comment, all else you wrote is a
possibility, given the very little that we know about this incident at the
moment. But then again, we don't know that the bus itself was in perfect
operating condition all the way up to the point where it slammed into two
cars waiting at the intersection. Other possibilities are mechanical
failure of some kind. This incident could have many causes. Speeding could
be one of them, but we can't make any logical conclusions at the
oment. -Dave

Ted B. wrote:
>>Preliminary thoughts are that the bus was attempting to make a right turn
>>at the intersection and blew the turn, striking the two vehicles which
>>were waiting at the light. This link should give you up-to-date
>>iinformation without a subscription. It's the local ABC affiliate.
>>http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/...81/detail.html
>
>
> That article is conflicting. It says the driver of the bus might have been
> trying to make a right turn. But then it also says that the route the bus
> normally followed would have had the bus continuing STRAIGHT through the
> intersection instead of turning right.

That's being discussed as well. They're trying to determine whether
there was some reason for the driver to have attempted the turn (such as
a mechanical problem resulting in the high speed followed by an attempt
to get out of traffic). NTSB is here now so we may hear something fairly
soon. The driver has been with the district for seven years and has what
is termed an "impeccable record".

> My money is still on something happening to the driver shortly before the
> incident. (heart attack?, stroke?, diabetic incident?) I think the fact
> that this happened at an intersection was coincidence only. A few seconds
> earlier or later and the bus might have just rolled over in a ditch. My
> theory anyway.

My guess would be the same. We have no idea about the driver's
condition. The hospital spokesman wouldn't provide any information about
the driver since the media can find out her name on their own (the bus
number is known) and that would be a HIPAA violation. The kids on the
bus don't seem to be able to provide much information.


Karen E.

Ted B. wrote:
> >
> > You're a classic criminal coddler. Maybe this driver fell asleep
or
> > maybe he was drunk. Who knows and who cares? This guy lost
control of
> > his vehicle and that makes the deaths his fault, period. If you
can't
> > control your vehicle, don't drive.
> >
>
> Other than the "criminal coddler" comment, all else you wrote is a
> possibility, given the very little that we know about this incident
at the
> moment. But then again, we don't know that the bus itself was in
perfect
> operating condition all the way up to the point where it slammed into
two
> cars waiting at the intersection. Other possibilities are mechanical

> failure of some kind. This incident could have many causes.
Speeding could
> be one of them, but we can't make any logical conclusions at the
> oment. -Dave

Oh jeezuz krist. You keep making excuses for this monster. Now it's the
bus's fault!!! URACRIMINALCODDLER

Around 5/10/2005 8:05 AM, Aunt Judy (Pride of Diarrhea)
<http://tinyurl.com/65nqz> wrote:

> Ted B. wrote:
>
>>But then again, we don't know that the bus itself was in perfect
>>operating condition all the way up to the point where it slammed into two
>>cars waiting at the intersection. Other possibilities are mechanical
>>failure of some kind. This incident could have many causes. Speeding could
>>be one of them, but we can't make any logical conclusions at the
>>oment. -Dave
>
>
> Now it's the bus's fault!!!

It could be. That's certainly how the article makes it sound:

"when the bus (...) collided with two vehicles"
"The bus was traveling at a high speed when it uprooted a pole, jumped a
median and slammed into two vehicles"

All by itself, huh?

The article gives the driver one very short sentence in passing, and
other than that, it makes it sound as if he were just along for the ride
and the bus was doing all the crashing on it's own. It certainly doesn't
provide enough information for us to determine a cause, let alone lay
the entirety of the burden of guilt at the driver's feet.


--
~/Garth
"I am patient with stupidity
but not with those who are proud of it." - Edith Sitwell
(Mail for secure contact information)