Want new vehicle is true (real) 4 wheel drive (4WD)?

I'm in the market for an SUV/Pickup truck. I'm curious on what new
vehicles are really 4WD? When I mean real 4WD, I mean a vehicle that
can send power equally to all 4 wheels, but also pass power to the
non-spinning wheel. Here's why I ask...

I use to own a 2000 Jeep Wrangler (4 cyl. base model). I thought it
was the ultimate 4WD system. Right after I bought it, I used the 4WD
High, and I noticed the dash indicator stating only 'Part-Time 4WD'. I
was ticked off. Here I've always wanted a Jeep to find out it sells
part-time 4wd drivetrains. I got stuck in a ditch once. Opposite
corners were spinning and the remaining 2 wheels just sat there.

I only ask this because I read a lot "specs" on 4wd vehicles and they
sort of hide if they really can split the power. I assuming the Jeep
Rubicon can do what I want as well as Hummer and some Land Rovers.

What is the feature called that I'm looking for? Locking
differentials? What vehicles have 4wd drivetrain like a "rock
crawler"?

P.S. I had a 2door Geo Tracker back in high school. That thing never
got stuck.

Your in experiance in 4x4 is really showing part time means you cannot leave
it in 4x4 for normal dry pavement operation.

If you had slightly applied the break you would have come right out of the
ditch.

The only way to get true 4x4 in any vehicle is to install front and rear
lockers.

HarryS

"Kdogg" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm in the market for an SUV/Pickup truck. I'm curious on what new
> vehicles are really 4WD? When I mean real 4WD, I mean a vehicle that
> can send power equally to all 4 wheels, but also pass power to the
> non-spinning wheel. Here's why I ask...
>
> I use to own a 2000 Jeep Wrangler (4 cyl. base model). I thought it
> was the ultimate 4WD system. Right after I bought it, I used the 4WD
> High, and I noticed the dash indicator stating only 'Part-Time 4WD'. I
> was ticked off. Here I've always wanted a Jeep to find out it sells
> part-time 4wd drivetrains. I got stuck in a ditch once. Opposite
> corners were spinning and the remaining 2 wheels just sat there.
>
> I only ask this because I read a lot "specs" on 4wd vehicles and they
> sort of hide if they really can split the power. I assuming the Jeep
> Rubicon can do what I want as well as Hummer and some Land Rovers.
>
> What is the feature called that I'm looking for? Locking
> differentials? What vehicles have 4wd drivetrain like a "rock
> crawler"?
>
> P.S. I had a 2door Geo Tracker back in high school. That thing never
> got stuck.
>

Harry is right on the money, Rovers have a lock that will give you a
front and rear trac, but only on the side of least resistance. However,
the comparison of the Rovers to H2s or Rubicons is ludicrous. They
arent even in the same catagory. My recommendation would be to at look
at the Rovers, if you think a Rubicon or a H2 can do what the
Discoveries and the Range Rovers can, you are mistaken. Im not going to
argue it with anyone, but take one for a drive, into deep snow or mud,
or if its a dealer take one on the test track and you will see why Land
Rover can ask for 50k for discos and 70 for range rovers.

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:18:40 UTC "Kdogg" > wrote:

Part TIme = not for use on surfaces with good traction. 4WD = both
axles driven. Since the part time 4WD has no provision for slippage
(like a differential), they are not for use where at least one wheel
cannot slip to relieve off balance stresses in the two axles. Once
you get to the axle, the behavior is determined by the differential -
same as the drive axle problem with 2WD. Trust me, for snow and
"normal" circumstances you don't really want what you appear to think
4WD means (power goes to any one wheel with traction). I had that to
some degree years ago in an old Scout with limit slip diferentials on
both axles. One good snow storm convinced me that it was inherently
dangerous and the front ls came out real quick. Locking/limited slip
differentials on both axles has it's place and is useful in specific
situations but on ice/snow - or even Texas clay mud - fully locked is
a tricky proposition. It also tends to be hard on the running gear -
any one axle shaft has to be able to handle the full torque of the
engine.

There are tricks to help the situation you describe - applying the
parking brake, tapping the brake pedal, etc. Some are covered in the
owner's manual.

> I'm in the market for an SUV/Pickup truck. I'm curious on what new
> vehicles are really 4WD? When I mean real 4WD, I mean a vehicle that
> can send power equally to all 4 wheels, but also pass power to the
> non-spinning wheel. Here's why I ask...
>
> I use to own a 2000 Jeep Wrangler (4 cyl. base model). I thought it
> was the ultimate 4WD system. Right after I bought it, I used the 4WD
> High, and I noticed the dash indicator stating only 'Part-Time 4WD'. I
> was ticked off. Here I've always wanted a Jeep to find out it sells
> part-time 4wd drivetrains. I got stuck in a ditch once. Opposite
> corners were spinning and the remaining 2 wheels just sat there.
>
> I only ask this because I read a lot "specs" on 4wd vehicles and they
> sort of hide if they really can split the power. I assuming the Jeep
> Rubicon can do what I want as well as Hummer and some Land Rovers.
>
> What is the feature called that I'm looking for? Locking
> differentials? What vehicles have 4wd drivetrain like a "rock
> crawler"?
>
> P.S. I had a 2door Geo Tracker back in high school. That thing never
> got stuck.
>


--
Will Honea

You probably have open differentials on both axles.
Get an LS rear and a manual locker for the front.

You need differential lockers to do what you want easily with their
handling downsides or you need to learn how to drive a 4x4 to do the
same manually.

'Part time' is the best 4x4 system because the front and rear axles are
locked so you at least have 2 wheels turning.

Power goes to all 4 wheels perfectly equally in the Jeep system.

If you use your e-brake like your owners manual says or the brake pedal
to load up the free spinning wheels, you can get the other sides
spinning.

I have a Jeep CJ7 with open differentials like your Wrangler had and I
can get all 4 wheels spinning on ice or snow.

If I am in the ditch with 2 wheels in the air, I am high centered and
nothing short of a winch is going to help there.....

The Rubicon has a sweet system with manual lockers.

Lockers are 'not' a real good thing to have if you drive on pavement in
the snow, they call them 'low side finders'.....

If I ever go for a locker it will have to be a part time manual system
because 6 month of my year is on snowy roads.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Kdogg wrote:
>
> I'm in the market for an SUV/Pickup truck. I'm curious on what new
> vehicles are really 4WD? When I mean real 4WD, I mean a vehicle that
> can send power equally to all 4 wheels, but also pass power to the
> non-spinning wheel. Here's why I ask...
>
> I use to own a 2000 Jeep Wrangler (4 cyl. base model). I thought it
> was the ultimate 4WD system. Right after I bought it, I used the 4WD
> High, and I noticed the dash indicator stating only 'Part-Time 4WD'. I
> was ticked off. Here I've always wanted a Jeep to find out it sells
> part-time 4wd drivetrains. I got stuck in a ditch once. Opposite
> corners were spinning and the remaining 2 wheels just sat there.
>
> I only ask this because I read a lot "specs" on 4wd vehicles and they
> sort of hide if they really can split the power. I assuming the Jeep
> Rubicon can do what I want as well as Hummer and some Land Rovers.
>
> What is the feature called that I'm looking for? Locking
> differentials? What vehicles have 4wd drivetrain like a "rock
> crawler"?
>
> P.S. I had a 2door Geo Tracker back in high school. That thing never
> got stuck.

"Kdogg" > wrote in message ups.com...
> ...and I noticed the dash indicator stating only 'Part-Time 4WD'. I
> was ticked off. Here I've always wanted a Jeep to find out it sells
> part-time 4wd drivetrains. I got stuck in a ditch once. Opposite
> corners were spinning and the remaining 2 wheels just sat there.
>
....
>
> What is the feature called that I'm looking for? Locking
> differentials? What vehicles have 4wd drivetrain like a "rock
> crawler"?

Everyone I know who goes rock crawling (and it isn't a lot of people) uses
part-time 4WD vehicles. Nothing wrong with part-time 4WD. However,
if you have open diff at both ends, like you apparently do, you gotta use
brakes when you're stuck with a front and a rear wheel in the air. The
open diff applies the same toque to both wheels. So if one offers no
resistance, they both get essentially zero torque which will not get you
moving. Add a little braking and things should work differently.

I think it may have more to do with gadgets and leather than true offroad
capability

"Corey Shuman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Harry is right on the money, Rovers have a lock that will give you a
> front and rear trac, but only on the side of least resistance. However,
> the comparison of the Rovers to H2s or Rubicons is ludicrous. They
> arent even in the same catagory. My recommendation would be to at look
> at the Rovers, if you think a Rubicon or a H2 can do what the
> Discoveries and the Range Rovers can, you are mistaken. Im not going to
> argue it with anyone, but take one for a drive, into deep snow or mud,
> or if its a dealer take one on the test track and you will see why Land
> Rover can ask for 50k for discos and 70 for range rovers.
>

Concur about the leather and doodads, heated seats and the latest option on
the H2 and rover are the heated tail gates. It keeps Jeep owners hands warm
in the winter assisting them from getting un-stuck.
HarryS

"Marc Sebens" > wrote in message
...
>I think it may have more to do with gadgets and leather than true offroad
>capability
>
> "Corey Shuman" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Harry is right on the money, Rovers have a lock that will give you a
>> front and rear trac, but only on the side of least resistance. However,
>> the comparison of the Rovers to H2s or Rubicons is ludicrous. They
>> arent even in the same catagory. My recommendation would be to at look
>> at the Rovers, if you think a Rubicon or a H2 can do what the
>> Discoveries and the Range Rovers can, you are mistaken. Im not going to
>> argue it with anyone, but take one for a drive, into deep snow or mud,
>> or if its a dealer take one on the test track and you will see why Land
>> Rover can ask for 50k for discos and 70 for range rovers.
>>
>
>

The only stock vehicle is the Jeep Rubicon. It can lock front and rear
diff giving you what you want.

Toyota puts lockers in the rear diff as an extra .

Mercedes G wagons can lock all 3 diffs.

Other than that there is nothing I know about. Most trucks can be
retrofitted with lockers giving you what you want.

Part time 4WD has nothing to do with your problem its the open diffs
that is.


Matt