A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto makers » Chrysler
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

freon



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 13th 05, 06:26 AM
tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default freon

I would like to find r12 substitute for my old a/c system.
Local stores in the LA area pep boys, auto Zone, etc, say I need a
license to buy the environmentally safe stuff, yet is available online
with no such requirement.

Questions:
Are there really any restrictions on the e-safe stuff?

How do I get this into an old system? All the new cans appear to be
the r134 screw on type, rather than the puncture top cans.
I don't want to replace my valves because my old type pressure gauges
will not work with the newer valves.

What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for
the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system
thru the original valves on the compressor. This would enable me to
use R134 leak detector, as well as envirosafe, or some such similar
product to recharge the system.

Any suggestions?

Thanks


Tony
Ads
  #2  
Old July 13th 05, 02:13 PM
aarcuda69062
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
tom > wrote:

> I would like to find r12 substitute for my old a/c system.


No problem. The EPA supplies a whole list of acceptable
alternative refrigerants at;
http://www.epa.gov/spdpublc/snap/ref.../macssubs.html

> Local stores in the LA area pep boys, auto Zone, etc, say I need a
> license to buy the environmentally safe stuff, yet is available online
> with no such requirement.


Many states have their own licensing requirements, some only
require the purchaser to have the "609" certification. Check the
laws in your state.

> Questions:
> Are there really any restrictions on the e-safe stuff?


There are restrictions on -any- substance introduced into a
mobile (automotive for highway use) air conditioning system.
Fill your AC system with Lime flavored Jello, it -still- falls
under the EPA rules, no exceptions.

> How do I get this into an old system? All the new cans appear to be
> the r134 screw on type, rather than the puncture top cans.
> I don't want to replace my valves because my old type pressure gauges
> will not work with the newer valves.


All substitute refrigerants are required to use individually
unique service fittings, this helps eliminate cross contamination
during recovery and recycling. Had the rules been more
diligently followed over the last 15 years, the equipment
requirements for the people and businesses who legitimately
service automotive AC systems would be a whole lot less and the
costs to the consumer a whole lot lower.

> What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for
> the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system
> thru the original valves on the compressor. This would enable me to
> use R134 leak detector, as well as envirosafe, or some such similar
> product to recharge the system.


I've never seen a leak detector, R-134a type or any other used to
recharge a system.
I think it's entirely reasonable to contact the refrigerant
manufacturers listed in the EPA SNAP list to see if they have
available adaptors to convert your R-12 manifold and gauge set to
use with their product.
If you live in the United States, be advised, it is illegal to
use hydrocarbon based refrigerants such as Envirosafe (ES-12a) in
any mobile air conditioning system.

> Any suggestions?


Please don't contribute to making things worse than they already
are.
  #3  
Old July 13th 05, 02:16 PM
Coasty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"tom" > wrote in message
...
>I would like to find r12 substitute for my old a/c system.
> Local stores in the LA area pep boys, auto Zone, etc, say I need a
> license to buy the environmentally safe stuff, yet is available online
> with no such requirement.
>
> Questions:
> Are there really any restrictions on the e-safe stuff?
>
> How do I get this into an old system? All the new cans appear to be
> the r134 screw on type, rather than the puncture top cans.
> I don't want to replace my valves because my old type pressure gauges
> will not work with the newer valves.
>
> What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for
> the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system
> thru the original valves on the compressor. This would enable me to
> use R134 leak detector, as well as envirosafe, or some such similar
> product to recharge the system.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Tony


Tony,

There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need a
license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). You
still need to replace the dryer/accumulator, reclaimed the R12 and draw a
500 micron vacuum to get everything out, you do not have to change the AC
compressor. Then the system must be recharged with the correct amount along
with manufacturers amount of compressor oil. I am licensed in both
automotive and universal I used Freeze 12 on several older R12 systems with
good results. R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. A
decent price for the job is around $250.00 on the east coast for all parts
and labor.
--
Coasty
SEMPAR PARATUS
(ALWAYS READY)

Remove The SPOOGE To Reply


  #4  
Old July 13th 05, 05:30 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote:

> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need a
> license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law).


Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12.

Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and
physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally,
there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very
shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone.
Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of
shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out.
EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate
it.

> R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz.


Bull****.

Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something,
in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running
at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13
to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you
claim.

Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself.

  #5  
Old July 13th 05, 05:32 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, tom wrote:

> I would like to find r12 substitute for my old a/c system.


Why? Just use R12. Sure, it's more expensive than other compounds, but it
is what the system is designed to work with, you don't need that much of
it, and it's the least problematic choice for a system meant to take R12.

> What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for
> the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system


If you manage to cobble together such a device, you will do a great deal
of damage to your A/C system. You will also very likely injure yourself
severely. A/C service is dangerous and requires detailed knowledge of
exactly what and what *not* to do.

  #6  
Old July 13th 05, 05:42 PM
tom
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:16:24 -0400, "Coasty"
> wrote:

>>
>> What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for
>> the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system
>> thru the original valves on the compressor. This would enable me to
>> use R134 leak detector, as well as envirosafe, or some such similar
>> product to recharge the system.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Tony

>
>Tony,
>
>There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need a
>license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). You
>still need to replace the dryer/accumulator, reclaimed the R12 and draw a
>500 micron vacuum to get everything out, you do not have to change the AC
>compressor. Then the system must be recharged with the correct amount along
>with manufacturers amount of compressor oil. I am licensed in both
>automotive and universal I used Freeze 12 on several older R12 systems with
>good results. R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. A
>decent price for the job is around $250.00 on the east coast for all parts
>and labor.
>--
>Coasty



AC was not working when I purchased the car. PO was told Evap coil was
leaking. I can't get an AC shop to work on it this time of year, as
it wil require a labor intensive removal of the dash. The system must
be completely empty by now, so I do not feel I will be releasing freon
into the atmosphere. I want to determine exactly where the leak(s)
are. If it's the coil, I will get it repaired or replaced thru my
local ac shop. I'll do thr RR myself, then bring the car back to him
to have it properly, amd legally refilled.

This is why I want the proper adapter hose to get leak detector into
the system. I don't want to start pulling good working parts, only to
find out the leak is somewhere else.

Thanks again,

Tony
  #7  
Old July 14th 05, 12:10 AM
Coasty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

To correct your ignorance and you may want to click on the link go to the
technical link and read the EPA authorization on a direct replacement.

I was not talking about the stuff on EBAY most of it is crap and contains
contaminates along with being illegally imported from Mexico where it is
still made. If you consider EBAY as your guide buyer beware.

http://www.freeze12.com/


I am licensed and certified Universal and Automotive I show you mine if you
show mw yours.
--
Coasty
SEMPAR PARATUS
(ALWAYS READY)

Remove The SPOOGE To Reply
"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote:
>
>> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need
>> a
>> license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law).

>
> Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12.
>
> Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and
> physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally,
> there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very
> shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone.
> Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of
> shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out.
> EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate
> it.
>
>> R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz.

>
> Bull****.
>
> Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something,
> in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running
> at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13
> to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you
> claim.
>
> Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself.
>



  #8  
Old July 14th 05, 12:14 AM
Coasty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Another link for you.
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrig.../fittlist.html
--
Coasty
SEMPAR PARATUS
(ALWAYS READY)

Remove The SPOOGE To Reply
"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote:
>
>> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need
>> a
>> license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law).

>
> Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12.
>
> Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and
> physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally,
> there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very
> shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone.
> Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of
> shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out.
> EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate
> it.
>
>> R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz.

>
> Bull****.
>
> Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something,
> in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running
> at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13
> to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you
> claim.
>
> Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself.
>



  #9  
Old July 14th 05, 12:17 AM
Coasty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

More to inform you

http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/buying.html
--
Coasty
SEMPAR PARATUS
(ALWAYS READY)

Remove The SPOOGE To Reply
"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote:
>
>> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need
>> a
>> license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law).

>
> Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12.
>
> Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and
> physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally,
> there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very
> shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone.
> Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of
> shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out.
> EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate
> it.
>
>> R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz.

>
> Bull****.
>
> Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something,
> in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running
> at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13
> to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you
> claim.
>
> Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself.
>



  #10  
Old July 14th 05, 12:19 AM
Coasty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Some more reading to help you

http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrig.../unaccept.html

--
Coasty
SEMPAR PARATUS
(ALWAYS READY)

Remove The SPOOGE To Reply
"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote:
>
>> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need
>> a
>> license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law).

>
> Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12.
>
> Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and
> physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally,
> there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very
> shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone.
> Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of
> shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out.
> EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate
> it.
>
>> R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz.

>
> Bull****.
>
> Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something,
> in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running
> at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13
> to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you
> claim.
>
> Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself.
>



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
134a Refrigerant Rich Hampel Jeep 1090 August 23rd 05 06:43 AM
A/C pipe leaking freon HND Honda 12 July 25th 05 07:52 PM
A/C problem MPClark Jeep 18 July 2nd 05 12:32 AM
Help: Recharging AC on 96 G Voyager SE The White Family Chrysler 6 June 2nd 05 08:39 PM
'89 Corolla running hot on highway (and other problems) [email protected] Technology 4 February 6th 05 08:53 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.