Headlamp bulbs - -96 LHS

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> I'm not an engineer but all of what you say makes sense. I've only
> driven one car with a headlight relay system and, unfortunately, on
> two occasions the relay failed and one of these times I was very
> nearly killed as the result.

That's due to poor implementation of a good idea for cost cutting
purposes (designing in inadequate relays).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> I'm not an engineer but all of what you say makes sense. I've only
> driven one car with a headlight relay system and, unfortunately, on
> two occasions the relay failed and one of these times I was very
> nearly killed as the result. When you beat a dog with a broom, they
> never look at it the same way again.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul

Hi Paul...

It amazes me that anyone would even consider a single relay...

For the price (to an automaker) of a relay and socket, why in the
world wouldn't they use two?

Take care.

Ken

Hi Bill,

I'll try to remember that when they haul away my cold, dead body from
the twisted wreckage. ;-)

Cheers,
Paul

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:55:27 -0500, Bill Putney >
wrote:

>That's due to poor implementation of a good idea for cost cutting
>purposes (designing in inadequate relays).
>
>Bill Putney
>(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>address with the letter 'x')

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:

> Hi Bill,
>
> I'll try to remember that when they haul away my cold, dead body from
> the twisted wreckage. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Paul

Yeah - they'll put on your tombstone: "Here lies Paul - but we saved
$0.03 on the relay!".

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Ken Weitzel wrote:

> Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I'm not an engineer but all of what you say makes sense. I've only
>> driven one car with a headlight relay system and, unfortunately, on
>> two occasions the relay failed and one of these times I was very
>> nearly killed as the result. When you beat a dog with a broom, they
>> never look at it the same way again.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
>
>
> Hi Paul...
>
> It amazes me that anyone would even consider a single relay...
>
> For the price (to an automaker) of a relay and socket, why in the
> world wouldn't they use two?

The problem isn't the number of relays - one is fine if its contacts are
designed for the required current. That would cost less than two of
lower current rating *AND* be reliable.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Hi Ken,

I'm sort of surprised as well. I recall the relay controlled the low
and high beams as well as the fog lights, so when you turned on the
high beams, the fog lights automatically shut-off (no doubt to prevent
excessively high current draw and the blinding of oncoming traffic).
If it were possible to incorporate a "fail" mode that would still
provide at least some light until the engine was turned off, that
would have made my trip through the great state of Maine a whole lot
more enjoyable.

Cheers.
Paul

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:17:23 GMT, Ken Weitzel >
wrote:

>Hi Paul...
>
>It amazes me that anyone would even consider a single relay...
>
>For the price (to an automaker) of a relay and socket, why in the
>world wouldn't they use two?
>
>Take care.
>
>Ken

Bill Putney wrote:
> Ken Weitzel wrote:
>
>> Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Steve,
>>>
>>> I'm not an engineer but all of what you say makes sense. I've only
>>> driven one car with a headlight relay system and, unfortunately, on
>>> two occasions the relay failed and one of these times I was very
>>> nearly killed as the result. When you beat a dog with a broom, they
>>> never look at it the same way again.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Paul
>>
>>
>> Hi Paul...
>>
>> It amazes me that anyone would even consider a single relay...
>>
>> For the price (to an automaker) of a relay and socket, why in the
>> world wouldn't they use two?
>
> The problem isn't the number of relays - one is fine if its contacts are
> designed for the required current. That would cost less than two of
> lower current rating *AND* be reliable.

Hi Bill...

But with one, corroded contacts (at the socket), or an open coil, or
dirty/corroded contacts at the switchpoint leave you totally in the
dark; whereas two would at least leave one headlamp burning.

Let me tell you (shamed facedly) of what I did when I was young and
stupid. (now I'm still stupid, but have elder moments to blame it on

Bought one of those 3 in 1 meter kits. Being young and invulnerable I
installed it quickly; bundled nicely the 4 wires and oil pressure tube,
stuck them through an opening in the firewall, hooked them up, all was
good so away I went...

Later that night... on the infamous highway 401, just west of Toronto.
Far enough from Toronto that there were no highway lights, but close
enough that there was still lots of traffic.

First - thought my foot was on fire. Incredible pain. A few seconds
later everything electrical quit. Engine stopped, *all* lights went
out. Incredible fear.

Saving grace was only that it was a standard, the starter still worked,
so I "drove" myself onto the shoulder with the starter motor.

What I'd done was hooked up the ammeter sloppily, it went to ground,
burned a hole in the oil tube (foot on fire), and eventually opened
up leaving me invisible, blind, and dead in the water.

Doubt there's anyone else stupid enough to do that, but makes me think
a lot about light wiring.

Take care.

Ken

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
> Hi Ken,
>
> I'm sort of surprised as well. I recall the relay controlled the low
> and high beams as well as the fog lights, so when you turned on the
> high beams, the fog lights automatically shut-off (no doubt to prevent
> excessively high current draw and the blinding of oncoming traffic).
> If it were possible to incorporate a "fail" mode that would still
> provide at least some light until the engine was turned off, that
> would have made my trip through the great state of Maine a whole lot
> more enjoyable.
>
> Cheers.
> Paul

Hi Paul...

Darn! In the last message I admitted to being a victim of elder
moments, but you on the other hand have hit the nail right on the
head!!!

All that needs to be done is to parallel the relay switched/heavier
wire system with the older original system. As long as the relay
operates well there'd be virtually no effect, yet if the relay failed
for whatever reason, you'd automagically fall back on the OEM stuff.

Fantastic!

Take care.

Ken

Hi Bill,

You may have hit upon the crux of the problem. I had been driving
several hours with my high beams on, as the secondary roads through
New Brunswick and Maine were completely deserted at the time; perhaps
high current draw over an extended period of time contributed to its
failure. The relay was located above the front passenger wheel well
and I wonder if long term exposure to heat and road grime/road salt
could have been contributing factors as well. Then again, Sharon
mentioned BOSCH relays were known to have problems during those years,
so perhaps I was simply twice blessed. Who knows?

Cheers,
Paul

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:29:50 -0500, Bill Putney >
wrote:

>The problem isn't the number of relays - one is fine if its contacts are
>designed for the required current. That would cost less than two of
>lower current rating *AND* be reliable.
>
>Bill Putney
>(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>address with the letter 'x')

Hi Ken,

That's so typical! The one time in my life f-n brilliant and I
completely missed it.

Cheers,
Paul

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:07:38 GMT, Ken Weitzel >
wrote:

>Hi Paul...
>
>Darn! In the last message I admitted to being a victim of elder
>moments, but you on the other hand have hit the nail right on the
>head!!!
>
>All that needs to be done is to parallel the relay switched/heavier
>wire system with the older original system. As long as the relay
>operates well there'd be virtually no effect, yet if the relay failed
>for whatever reason, you'd automagically fall back on the OEM stuff.
>
>Fantastic!
>
>Take care.
>
>Ken