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#261
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Bill Putney wrote:
> linda wrote: > > >> The American Psychological Association issued a warning on August 14, >> 1997, against the "psychological terrorism" of the Ex-Gay "reparative >> therapy" movement, which the APA said reveals an "intense bias against >> gay people." > > > Is that the same APA that published a "scientific" study that said that > it was found that pediphilia did not harm children who experienced it, > and later denounced same after (and only after) those in the scientific > community and the public raised a big stink about the pseudo science > that they were promoting for political reasons? Why yes - I believe it > was the very same APA. > > Bill Putney > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > adddress with the letter 'x') > > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet > News==---- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 > Newsgroups > ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- Honestly, i did not know that.. Ask a victim of pedophilia if it affected them (from personal experience, i can tell you that i am not sure if it changed me, because i don't know how i would be if it hadn't happened). ask a gay person if they can change. Ask those who are gay, if they have a choice... i really don't think linking the two together is fair or honest, or objective. There are serious issues out there about the dangers and damage of the ex-gay reparative therapy. Like i told Ted, we can cuss/discuss issues on both sides forever. I just stand by my belief (regardless of the scientific evidence for and against) that there are things we cannot choose, cannot change. i wish i could go back to my blond hair, instead of gray. i wish i wouldn't grow older, but i am.. i wish i could lift 100lbs again, but i can't. i wish i could change a lot of things, but by nature, genes, biology, environment, i can't. our science is constantly changing, new things are being discovered, newer ways of discovery, what once was ok, is not now... wishy washy? perhaps..science is not perfect, but we are growing and getting better and it seems to me that you are still "under your desk during the 50's" mindset. i am just a concerned friend that my friends both gay and not gay, are not going to be treated fairly. i will fight for your right to believe in what you believe, and i would hope you would do the same for me... linda (waiting for the next boom!!!!!) |
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#262
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Bill Putney wrote:
> linda wrote: > > >> The American Psychological Association issued a warning on August 14, >> 1997, against the "psychological terrorism" of the Ex-Gay "reparative >> therapy" movement, which the APA said reveals an "intense bias against >> gay people." > > > Is that the same APA that published a "scientific" study that said that > it was found that pediphilia did not harm children who experienced it, > and later denounced same after (and only after) those in the scientific > community and the public raised a big stink about the pseudo science > that they were promoting for political reasons? Why yes - I believe it > was the very same APA. > > Bill Putney > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > adddress with the letter 'x') > > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet > News==---- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 > Newsgroups > ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- Honestly, i did not know that.. Ask a victim of pedophilia if it affected them (from personal experience, i can tell you that i am not sure if it changed me, because i don't know how i would be if it hadn't happened). ask a gay person if they can change. Ask those who are gay, if they have a choice... i really don't think linking the two together is fair or honest, or objective. There are serious issues out there about the dangers and damage of the ex-gay reparative therapy. Like i told Ted, we can cuss/discuss issues on both sides forever. I just stand by my belief (regardless of the scientific evidence for and against) that there are things we cannot choose, cannot change. i wish i could go back to my blond hair, instead of gray. i wish i wouldn't grow older, but i am.. i wish i could lift 100lbs again, but i can't. i wish i could change a lot of things, but by nature, genes, biology, environment, i can't. our science is constantly changing, new things are being discovered, newer ways of discovery, what once was ok, is not now... wishy washy? perhaps..science is not perfect, but we are growing and getting better and it seems to me that you are still "under your desk during the 50's" mindset. i am just a concerned friend that my friends both gay and not gay, are not going to be treated fairly. i will fight for your right to believe in what you believe, and i would hope you would do the same for me... linda (waiting for the next boom!!!!!) |
#263
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Are we being inconsistent here?
DAS -- For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- "linda" > wrote in message ... [...] > I just stand by my belief (regardless of the scientific evidence for and > against) that there are things we cannot choose, cannot change. i wish > [...] > new things are being discovered, newer ways of discovery, what once was > ok, is not now... wishy washy? perhaps..science is not perfect, but we are > growing and getting better [...] |
#264
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Are we being inconsistent here?
DAS -- For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- "linda" > wrote in message ... [...] > I just stand by my belief (regardless of the scientific evidence for and > against) that there are things we cannot choose, cannot change. i wish > [...] > new things are being discovered, newer ways of discovery, what once was > ok, is not now... wishy washy? perhaps..science is not perfect, but we are > growing and getting better [...] |
#265
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
> Are we being inconsistent here? > > DAS i don't think i am being inconsistent here, i think i am better informed now than when i started. i am allowed that, but my beliefs are still the same, regardless of the inconsistencies of reporting, scientific evidence.... are we being catty, here? meow... :-) |
#266
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
> Are we being inconsistent here? > > DAS i don't think i am being inconsistent here, i think i am better informed now than when i started. i am allowed that, but my beliefs are still the same, regardless of the inconsistencies of reporting, scientific evidence.... are we being catty, here? meow... :-) |
#267
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On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, linda wrote:
> Bill Putney wrote: > >> The American Psychological Association issued a warning on August 14, > >> 1997, against the "psychological terrorism" of the Ex-Gay "reparative > >> therapy" movement, which the APA said reveals an "intense bias against > >> gay people." > > Is that the same APA that published a "scientific" study that said that > > it was found that pediphilia did not harm children who experienced it > > Bill Putney > Honestly, i did not know that. You still don't. You have Bill's assertion that it happened; let's see if he can back up his claim by producing the study. > i really don't think linking the two together is fair or honest, or > objective. Of course it's not, but Bill's belief on the subject is that there is only one real kind of human sexuality (heterosexual) and anything else is simply a behavioral choice or a mental disorder or an otherwise "broken" heterosexual. > I just stand by my belief (regardless of the scientific evidence for and > against) that there are things we cannot choose, cannot change. "Can they change?" is one question. "If they can change, should they?" is another. > i wish i could go back to my blond hair, instead of gray. i wish i > wouldn't grow older, but i am.. i wish i could lift 100lbs again, but i > can't. i wish i could change a lot of things, but by nature, genes, > biology, environment, i can't. Yeah, well, you know. Big noses, small noses. Red hair, black hair, brown hair, blond hair, straight hair, curly hair. China-white skin, chocolate-brown skin, and every shade in between. Big, small, round and slanted eyes of blue, hazel, brown, black. Heights from 4 feet to 7 feet. Weights from "will blow away in a stiff breeze" to 400 pounds. Shoe sizes from 4A to 14EEE. Breast sizes from "flat" to "Dolly Parton". Varying talent in math, language, music, science, athletics, art. Fondness for edible-pod peas, hatred of brussels sprouts. All of these variations in humanity, and thousands more, are perfectly OK because "we are all made in God's image". Sexuality? Nope. No variance. One kind only. Does that make sense to you? Not to me. |
#268
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On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, linda wrote:
> Bill Putney wrote: > >> The American Psychological Association issued a warning on August 14, > >> 1997, against the "psychological terrorism" of the Ex-Gay "reparative > >> therapy" movement, which the APA said reveals an "intense bias against > >> gay people." > > Is that the same APA that published a "scientific" study that said that > > it was found that pediphilia did not harm children who experienced it > > Bill Putney > Honestly, i did not know that. You still don't. You have Bill's assertion that it happened; let's see if he can back up his claim by producing the study. > i really don't think linking the two together is fair or honest, or > objective. Of course it's not, but Bill's belief on the subject is that there is only one real kind of human sexuality (heterosexual) and anything else is simply a behavioral choice or a mental disorder or an otherwise "broken" heterosexual. > I just stand by my belief (regardless of the scientific evidence for and > against) that there are things we cannot choose, cannot change. "Can they change?" is one question. "If they can change, should they?" is another. > i wish i could go back to my blond hair, instead of gray. i wish i > wouldn't grow older, but i am.. i wish i could lift 100lbs again, but i > can't. i wish i could change a lot of things, but by nature, genes, > biology, environment, i can't. Yeah, well, you know. Big noses, small noses. Red hair, black hair, brown hair, blond hair, straight hair, curly hair. China-white skin, chocolate-brown skin, and every shade in between. Big, small, round and slanted eyes of blue, hazel, brown, black. Heights from 4 feet to 7 feet. Weights from "will blow away in a stiff breeze" to 400 pounds. Shoe sizes from 4A to 14EEE. Breast sizes from "flat" to "Dolly Parton". Varying talent in math, language, music, science, athletics, art. Fondness for edible-pod peas, hatred of brussels sprouts. All of these variations in humanity, and thousands more, are perfectly OK because "we are all made in God's image". Sexuality? Nope. No variance. One kind only. Does that make sense to you? Not to me. |
#269
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Big Bill wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:05:01 GMT, Sparky > wrote: > > >>Big Bill wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:36:09 GMT, Sparky > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Big Bill wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:30:32 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, indago wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>041108 2142 - Wound Up posted: >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Homosexuality does not serve as an acceptable excuse for being the >>>>>>>>target of hatred >>>>>> >>>>>>>Well, then, maybe derision??? >>>>>> >>>>>>"Maybe"...? Y'think? >>>>>> >>>>>>Turn on your TV set during primetime any night of the week. Scarcely a >>>>>>sitcom episode goes by without they don't make clunky, hamhanded innuendo >>>>>>or outright laughtrack-enhanced punchlines at the expense of >>>>>>cardigan-wearing, mincing, oh-so-coiffed fag-stereotypes, and entire >>>>>>series are built on same, e.g. "Will and Grace" or "Queer Eye for the >>>>>>Straight Guy" or "Queer as Folk". >>>>>> >>>>>>One doesn't have to work very hard to imagine how black people felt when >>>>>>they saw such as "What's Happenin?" on television. Hollywood, for their >>>>>>part, is glibly contrite for years of making money off black stereotypes, >>>>>>but they evidently have zero problem doing the selfsame thing with gays >>>>>>right now, today. >>>>>> >>>>>>Gandhi said of social change: "First they ignore you, then they ridicule >>>>>>and denounce you, then they debate you, then you win." >>>>>> >>>>>>-DS >>>>> >>>>>There's a group that come in for much more derision than homosexuals >>>>>on TV - the white male. >>>>>All you need to do to see this is to watch sitcoms and advertisements. >>>>>The poor bumbling white guy is the butt of so many jokes it's obvious >>>>>to anyone who watches. >>>>>But it's OK, because, after all, they are just, well, there. >>>> >>>>Feeling sorry for yourself, BB? >>>> >>>>Adult white guys still seem to be running things across the USA. >>> >>>So you don't think what I say is right? >>>Have you watched TV lately? >> >>Some. I think you're confusing fiction with reality. > > > So you think they aren't making these shows and commercials? > *That* would be fiction. > The reality is that these shows and commercials *are* being made and > shown. > >>Are you saying adult white guys *aren't* running things across the USA? > > > Where are you getting this? You* do* realize that, despite the > descrimination against them, gays are productive members of society, > don't you? > No where am I saying that white males aren't doing anything. I'm > saying they are being discriminated against. > > Bill Funk > Change "g" to "a" Bill, being a white female from the south, that argument won't fly with me... i would have to disagree just based on my experience.. nothing scientific... just my own personal experience... Gays are and have always been productive members of society. to name a few: Leonardo da Vinci (artist, inventor) Samuel Barber (composer) Gian Carlo Menotti (composer) Raymond Burr (actor, philanthropist) (NO!!!! Not Perry Mason!!!! i thought he was always in love with Della!!!! :-( ) :-) Amelia Earhart - Aviator, Explorer Michelangelo - (1475 - 1564) Sculptor, Artist, Architect, Poet Harvey Milk - (1930 - 1978) First openly gay official elected in the US Plato - (427? - 347 B.C.) Philosopher Pope Benedict IX - (1020 - 1055) Roman Catholic Pope Pope John XII - (937 - 964) Roman Catholic Pope Pope Julius III - (1487 - 1555) Roman Catholic Pope Pope Leo X - (1475 - 1521) Roman Catholic Pope Pope Paul II - (1417 - 1471) Roman Catholic Pope Pope Sixtus IV - (1414 - 1484) Roman Catholic Pope Richard the Lionheart - King of England Cole Porter - (1893 - 1964) Composer Gore Vidal (statesman, author, actor) |
#270
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Big Bill wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:05:01 GMT, Sparky > wrote: > > >>Big Bill wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 18:36:09 GMT, Sparky > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Big Bill wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:30:32 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, indago wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>041108 2142 - Wound Up posted: >>>>>> >>>>>>>>Homosexuality does not serve as an acceptable excuse for being the >>>>>>>>target of hatred >>>>>> >>>>>>>Well, then, maybe derision??? >>>>>> >>>>>>"Maybe"...? Y'think? >>>>>> >>>>>>Turn on your TV set during primetime any night of the week. Scarcely a >>>>>>sitcom episode goes by without they don't make clunky, hamhanded innuendo >>>>>>or outright laughtrack-enhanced punchlines at the expense of >>>>>>cardigan-wearing, mincing, oh-so-coiffed fag-stereotypes, and entire >>>>>>series are built on same, e.g. "Will and Grace" or "Queer Eye for the >>>>>>Straight Guy" or "Queer as Folk". >>>>>> >>>>>>One doesn't have to work very hard to imagine how black people felt when >>>>>>they saw such as "What's Happenin?" on television. Hollywood, for their >>>>>>part, is glibly contrite for years of making money off black stereotypes, >>>>>>but they evidently have zero problem doing the selfsame thing with gays >>>>>>right now, today. >>>>>> >>>>>>Gandhi said of social change: "First they ignore you, then they ridicule >>>>>>and denounce you, then they debate you, then you win." >>>>>> >>>>>>-DS >>>>> >>>>>There's a group that come in for much more derision than homosexuals >>>>>on TV - the white male. >>>>>All you need to do to see this is to watch sitcoms and advertisements. >>>>>The poor bumbling white guy is the butt of so many jokes it's obvious >>>>>to anyone who watches. >>>>>But it's OK, because, after all, they are just, well, there. >>>> >>>>Feeling sorry for yourself, BB? >>>> >>>>Adult white guys still seem to be running things across the USA. >>> >>>So you don't think what I say is right? >>>Have you watched TV lately? >> >>Some. I think you're confusing fiction with reality. > > > So you think they aren't making these shows and commercials? > *That* would be fiction. > The reality is that these shows and commercials *are* being made and > shown. > >>Are you saying adult white guys *aren't* running things across the USA? > > > Where are you getting this? You* do* realize that, despite the > descrimination against them, gays are productive members of society, > don't you? > No where am I saying that white males aren't doing anything. I'm > saying they are being discriminated against. > > Bill Funk > Change "g" to "a" Bill, being a white female from the south, that argument won't fly with me... i would have to disagree just based on my experience.. nothing scientific... just my own personal experience... Gays are and have always been productive members of society. to name a few: Leonardo da Vinci (artist, inventor) Samuel Barber (composer) Gian Carlo Menotti (composer) Raymond Burr (actor, philanthropist) (NO!!!! Not Perry Mason!!!! i thought he was always in love with Della!!!! :-( ) :-) Amelia Earhart - Aviator, Explorer Michelangelo - (1475 - 1564) Sculptor, Artist, Architect, Poet Harvey Milk - (1930 - 1978) First openly gay official elected in the US Plato - (427? - 347 B.C.) Philosopher Pope Benedict IX - (1020 - 1055) Roman Catholic Pope Pope John XII - (937 - 964) Roman Catholic Pope Pope Julius III - (1487 - 1555) Roman Catholic Pope Pope Leo X - (1475 - 1521) Roman Catholic Pope Pope Paul II - (1417 - 1471) Roman Catholic Pope Pope Sixtus IV - (1414 - 1484) Roman Catholic Pope Richard the Lionheart - King of England Cole Porter - (1893 - 1964) Composer Gore Vidal (statesman, author, actor) |
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