Project for the Next Generation of Vehicles

I remember this around 1994. All I remembered was I was in highschool
and early college, and Al Gore and Bill Clinton were talking about a car
that could get 85 mpg. I remember around 1995 seeing news on TV with
college researchers building prototypes of cars that got really good gas
mileage- they had giant flywheels, electric motors, small engines, etc.
The goal of the PNGV was to build a family car within ten years than got 85
mpg in ten years. I figured they'd be just around the corner. Who knows,
maybe my first or second car would be one.

Well, it turns out the whole thing was a giant smokescreen. During this
ten year period from 1994-2004, the American auto industry implemented very
little of the improvements from their research. Instead, they created the
modern SUV fad, and average miles per gallon actually decreased. And the
government, worst of all, gave them over a billion dollars of taxes to play
around with, with no accountability in the end. Sure, some money was
implemented to study electric battery technology, lighter vehicle design,
hybrid powertrains and hydrogen fuel cells, but very little found it's way
into real cars.

Why does anybody think that the fuel cell technology "Freedom Car"
initiative being pushed by George W. Bush is any different? IMO, the
American auto industry doesn't deserve one cent until they can actually
produce something with the money they already recieved.

It's shameful that in 2005 there are only really two or three models of
hybrid cars to choose from (the Honda Insight doesn't count, it's a joke-
and about to be discontinued), and NONE of the powertrains are American
designed. To boot, demand for hybrid cars far exceeds the production,
meaning that people who actually want a hybrid car will face long waits and
few choices, price gouging, etc. The ONLY reason Toyota is building the
Prius is in low numbers is because they obviously don't intend for it to be
anything but a marketting device to enhance their image as a "green company"
.. If they were serious about hybrids, they would have started rapidly
implementing them into all their cars. They've had nearly 4 years to do so.

You want better mileage? Lower the speed limit. That would also save
thousands of lives a year and billions of $.

"Magnulus" > wrote in message
...
> I remember this around 1994. All I remembered was I was in
highschool
> and early college, and Al Gore and Bill Clinton were talking about a
car
> that could get 85 mpg. I remember around 1995 seeing news on TV with
> college researchers building prototypes of cars that got really good
gas
> mileage- they had giant flywheels, electric motors, small engines,
etc.
> The goal of the PNGV was to build a family car within ten years than
got 85
> mpg in ten years. I figured they'd be just around the corner. Who
knows,
> maybe my first or second car would be one.
>
> Well, it turns out the whole thing was a giant smokescreen. During
this
> ten year period from 1994-2004, the American auto industry implemented
very
> little of the improvements from their research. Instead, they created
the
> modern SUV fad, and average miles per gallon actually decreased. And
the
> government, worst of all, gave them over a billion dollars of taxes to
play
> around with, with no accountability in the end. Sure, some money was
> implemented to study electric battery technology, lighter vehicle
design,
> hybrid powertrains and hydrogen fuel cells, but very little found it's
way
> into real cars.
>
> Why does anybody think that the fuel cell technology "Freedom Car"
> initiative being pushed by George W. Bush is any different? IMO,
the
> American auto industry doesn't deserve one cent until they can
actually
> produce something with the money they already recieved.

That's what we get for putting oil criminals in the whitehouse or one
heartbeat from the whitehouse since atleast 1980: Bush I (1980-1992),
Gore (1992-2000 - ever hear of Occidental Petroleum? That criminal
organization and the Gore family go hand-n-hand ref:
http://tinyurl.com/6djvw ) and ofcourse, we have the two criminals
currently in that position, Bush II and Cheney. As long as we the
suckers keep electing them, don't count on an 85MPG or alternative
fueled vehicle or the SUV abomination to pass any time soon.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:27:54 -0500, "Magnulus" >

>(the Honda Insight doesn't count, it's a joke-
>and about to be discontinued)

Okay, why is it a joke?

Sure, it's small, but so are a lot of other cars on the market.

On 30 Jan 2005 07:52:58 -0800, "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend"
>

>You want better mileage? Lower the speed limit. That would also save
>thousands of lives a year and billions of $.

You want less pollution from cars and safer highways?

Don't make it so easy to get a license.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 11:20:22 -0700, Mike Z. Helm > wrote:

>On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:27:54 -0500, "Magnulus" >
>
>>(the Honda Insight doesn't count, it's a joke-
>>and about to be discontinued)
>
>Okay, why is it a joke?
>
>Sure, it's small, but so are a lot of other cars on the market.

And you notice those small cars are not selling - its the big SUV's you see
beside you in the parking lot that are selling.

A small anything for the roadway is not the solution to this. We need to be
able to haul stuff now that people have all moved out into the country. Kids
can't get on their bikes and get to anyplace in town that they need to, they
have to be driven. You end up hauling the whole damn little league team,
repeatedly and often. You need to haul stuff back from Home Depot today,
instead of waiting for it to be delivered Tuesday. And people believe that
they can avoid a rollover accident via their superior driving, and will simply
crush the other car in any sort of collision if they have a big SUV.

Soo... make the SUV's fuel efficient, that's the answer.

Dave Head

"Paul" <Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend is a > wrote in
message ...
>
>
> That's what we get for putting oil criminals in the whitehouse or one
> heartbeat from the whitehouse since atleast 1980: Bush I (1980-1992),
> Gore (1992-2000 - ever hear of Occidental Petroleum? That criminal
> organization and the Gore family go hand-n-hand ref:
> http://tinyurl.com/6djvw ) and ofcourse, we have the two criminals
> currently in that position, Bush II and Cheney. As long as we the
> suckers keep electing them, don't count on an 85MPG or alternative
> fueled vehicle or the SUV abomination to pass any time soon.
>
>

As long as the customer demands large and/or powerful gas-consuming
vehicles, that is where the vehicle production will ultimately be. There is
plenty of "blame" to go around...and it starts mainly with *us*. IF people
insisted on and bought primarily fuel efficient vehicles, like what happened
in the mid-late 1970's, than that is what we would have today! It's too
easy to blame the politicians when the manufacturers are only building what
most people want.

"Mike Z. Helm" > wrote in message
...
>
> Okay, why is it a joke?
>
> Sure, it's small, but so are a lot of other cars on the market.

The Honda Insight I suppose is OK but it's fairly small and lightweight-
the handling and feel of the car also isn't as solid as some of the "larger"
hybrids, like the Honda Civic. It also will only hold two people and the
trunk will not hold many groceries.

Honda said they are either going to ditch the car next year or go with a
big redesign.

"Dave Head" > wrote in message
...
> And you notice those small cars are not selling - its the big SUV's you
see
> beside you in the parking lot that are selling.
>

If the hybrid cars weren't selling, then the demand wouldn't be
outstripping the supply.

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:27:54 -0500, "Magnulus"
> > wrote:
>
>
> On the contrary!
>
> They merely applied that research in the ways that would sell the most
> cars - by making cars more powerful. Instead of increasing the
> efficiency of a wimpy car and making it get 85 MPG, they increased the
> efficiency of a V8 engine and gave it 500 horsepower. Production
> automobiles roll out of the factory today with more rear-wheel
> horsepower than at any time in history - including the "musclecar" era
> of the 60s and early 70s.
>
> --
> Sloth Kills!
> http://www.geocities.com/slothkills/

Of course you are correct Scott. The Honda Civic model sold in Japan comes
close to achieving 80 MPG (from what I've read). However, the car only has
a 82 horsepower engine in it (comparable in power to many 1980's cars that
were sold here in the US). Today's 200HP mid-size sedans get the same
mileage as a early 1980's sub-compact hatchbacks that had a 80HP engine in
them. So, you're right on the mark. The US buyer wants power over economy
these days. So, naturally, that is what the manufacturers produce.

Now, one could argue that the Japanese model and the US model on opposite
extremes and there is a reasonable median that achieved both adequate power
at reasonable economy. But when economy isn't important to people, why
bother with it? Makes sense if I was making cars (and wanted to make a
profit).