had one ... but the doors fell off

a little maintenance goes along way!!!!!!!!it may even keep doors from
falling off
"Joe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "peter denyer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > My 1995 Town and Country has been a mechanical nightmare sice I bought
> > it - love the form factor, but it's a dud otherwise - replaced the front
> > steering rack 4 times now
>
> I know this isn't helpful, but it sounds like the problem is more you than
> the van. Good heavens. They made millions of those things, and nobody's
> broken a door off, and you've got two? What are the odds?
>
> As for the steering rack, it should be obvious that it isn't your van
> "killing" the racks repeatedly. It's not haunted. For heaven's sake, think
a
> little bit.
>
>

I love the "holy than thou" commentary. It's really quite funny if it
wasn't so pathetic. Give me a break - I tell you this is what happens
and your instant assumption is that I am driving into medians and curbs
on a regular basis and I'm making all this stuff up - not so - I've
babied this piece of junk since I bought it.

I have owned this car since it was new. I took it into every Chrysler
recommended service for the best part of 8 years. Believe it - I have
the receipts. Switched to a more local Chrysler dealer, as opposed to
the one I bought it from, when it opened just 2 miles away. Finally got
fed up with the local dealer when I took it in for an oil change and
$700 later discovered they forgot to do the oil change - amazing what
else they found wrong (bad front struts - have to be replaced - they're
dangerous!). The mom-and-pop repair shop around the corner is more
trustworthy than the Chrysler dealer(s) ever was.

While under the extended warranty - glad I bought it - the front
steering rack was replaced twice. I've since paid twice additionally for
this to be replaced. That was the local Chrysler dealerships solution to
front end alignments that didn't last 6 months. It's sad when you're on
first name basis with service advisors.

Which is the incompetent alignment shop - either of the two Chrysler
dealerships or the three different tire shops I have taken the van to -
surely one of them might have got it right. So "Caravans don't have
these problems" - mine does and has done since I bought it.

(Maxpower - it's a Town and Country - but that probably makes little
difference in the analysis - and the answer is once for a front end
accident and once for a rear end accident - see below)

The serpentine belt used to fall off with amazing regularity - once had
to have the van towed 180 miles to get it back to the dealer where I
bought it! I couldn't manage to wait the weekend until a dealership
opened near where it failed - plus the 180 each way trip it would have
cost me to get from my home to where the car broke down. Once after
re-installing the serpentine belt, I didn't even get then 15 miles home
before it fell off again. Dealership paid to have it towed back again -
but embarrassing- what? Had the idler pulley replaced - and replaced -
and replaced.

OK - slight exaggeration on the door falling off - but the upper drivers
side door hinge actually ripped itself off the unibdoy and I could not
shut the door - the door dropped about an inch - had to simultaneously
lift and pull to get the door to close. I had to have a body shop weld a
plate so they could re-attach it.

In answer to the question - Northern California - and not near the ocean
- not a hint of rust anywhere on the van. Still looks good for a 10 year
old van - I actually bought it 10 years ago next week.

And the adjustment bolt on the back hatch did shear off - looked at it
with a trouble light last night to see exactly what was going on - yup -
sheared off right at hinge level. Rear hatch drops about 9 inches or so
and of course can't be shut. Looks like we've been in a major accident -
but not. Thankfully, I don't think there is any other damage to the
hatch and it might be redeemable.

You can choose to believe my wife and I are collectively lousy drivers
and mis-treat our automobiles, but I have a 25 year old BMW320I that I
have put over 200K miles on without this kind of nonsense. Can't
remember when I last had a front end alignment. My 19181 Volvo 240 Turbo
went over 240K miles without this nonsense - finally gave it up when the
cost of a new turbo was more than the car was worth to me. The Bay Area
girl scouts got a buck or two for it.

yes, my wife had a minor rear-end accident where she hit someone at a
light - but that was well after two front steering rack replacements.
Can't lay too much blame on the body shop for that, I think. An yes -
someone hit the rear gate about 4 years ago - a minor tap in bumper to
bumper traffic. Full size SUVs have their bumper set too high for almost
anything but another full size SUV. A nice crease right across the
license plate holder. Enough to cause a catastrophic failure like this 4
years later? Improbable in my mind.

Joe - if there was one hint of improper driving or maintenance I might
agree with you - my wife put 100K+ miles on the BMW320I that I'm now
driving with over 200K miles on it - without this kind of problem - so
all of a sudden she's a demolition derby driver? Sorry to disagree.

The Chrysler statement about "this doesn't happen" i.e. the tailgate
failure came from the service manager at a local Chrysler dealer who
graciously ran a repair history on the van to make sure we'd fulfilled
every recall applicable to this van - we have by the way. Turns out
he's a friend of a fiend and did this as a favor. I don't talk to the
idiots at the nearest Chrysler dealership after that oil change fiasco.

(Maxpower - I did previously note that this van had EVERY Chrysler
recommended service until I had about 150,000 miles on the van and until
the local Chrysler dealer screwed me one time too many on what they
actually did for those expensive service appointments - so don't lecture
me about a little maintenance goes a long way. Do I need to go and check
the torque on every nut and bolt on this van on a regular basis? If
that's your idea or regular maintenance - that's nuts.

But I do take your point to heart - the reason I bought this van was
that Chrysler had made millions of them and I wanted to get something
very reliable reliable as my wife is a home healthcare nurse who puts a
lot of miles on an automobile - and that's why I did every Chrysler
recommended service until about 2 years ago... so much for that dilligence)

So, my thoughtful readers - believe what you wish (and I haven't talked
about a transmission replacement - the passenger side electric window
that doesn't go up and down any more, or the rear wiper that doesn't, or
the radio that doesn't display the time and station any more) but I'm
going to get this fixed as best I can and donate it to charity - I
wouldn't want to take money from some unsuspecting dupe and actually
personally sell it ( road rage anyone?) to someone who might know where
I live.

Northern California is a very benign environment for an automobile. But
a lemon is a lemon where ever it might be.

A new BMW X5 or Mercedes ML320 is starting to sound really good...well,
maybe not the Mercedes - that's Chrysler's parent isn't it?

Peter


peter denyer wrote:
> My 1995 Town and Country has been a mechanical nightmare sice I bought
> it - love the form factor, but it's a dud otherwise - replaced the front
> steering rack 4 times now and all Chrysler can say is "sorry you're not
> happy". Can't keep it in alignment - evey 6 months new front tires and
> an alignment. I won't bother with the litany of other things that broke
> that never should. My repair file is getting quite large...
>
> I was miffed when the drivers side door fell off - well not quite off -
> the upper hange tore itself away from the unibody and obviously the door
> wouldn't close - which left the lights on and drained my battery. Had to
> get a body shop to weld a plate so the upper hinge could be re-attached.
>
> Todays interesting problem - the tailgate fell off - well again I
> exagerate a bit - there is a bolt that goes through the middle of the
> hinges on the tailgate - maybe it's for some sort of alignment or
> adjustment or some such thing . Anyway , the bolt on one of the hinges
> failed - shearing off and droping the tailgate to such an extent that
> the van looked like it had been in a serious accident. Good thing my
> wife was close to home at our local highschool. Someone found some rope
> so my kids could hold the tailgate closed while my wife hobbled home. I
> can post a picture if anyone is interested.
>
> Can anyone tell me what thread and length for this bolt? I'm going to
> have to careully drill out the sheared-off bolt, perhaps re-thread the
> hole and hope that nothing was grossly twisted in this "event". The
> local Chrysler says "this doesn't happen". Well, it did...
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks
> peter
>
>

I love the "holy than thou" commentary. It's really quite funny if it
wasn't so pathetic. Give me a break - I tell you this is what happens
and your instant assumption is that I am driving into medians and curbs
on a regular basis and I'm making all this stuff up - not so - I've
babied this piece of junk since I bought it.

I have owned this car since it was new. I took it into every Chrysler
recommended service for the best part of 8 years. Believe it - I have
the receipts. Switched to a more local Chrysler dealer, as opposed to
the one I bought it from, when it opened just 2 miles away. Finally got
fed up with the local dealer when I took it in for an oil change and
$700 later discovered they forgot to do the oil change - amazing what
else they found wrong (bad front struts - have to be replaced - they're
dangerous!). The mom-and-pop repair shop around the corner is more
trustworthy than the Chrysler dealer(s) ever was.

While under the extended warranty - glad I bought it - the front
steering rack was replaced twice. I've since paid twice additionally for
this to be replaced. That was the local Chrysler dealerships solution to
front end alignments that didn't last 6 months. It's sad when you're on
first name basis with service advisors.

Which is the incompetent alignment shop - either of the two Chrysler
dealerships or the three different tire shops I have taken the van to -
surely one of them might have got it right. So "Caravans don't have
these problems" - mine does and has done since I bought it.

(Maxpower - it's a Town and Country - but that probably makes little
difference in the analysis - and the answer is once for a front end
accident and once for a rear end accident - see below)

The serpentine belt used to fall off with amazing regularity - once had
to have the van towed 180 miles to get it back to the dealer where I
bought it! I couldn't manage to wait the weekend until a dealership
opened near where it failed - plus the 180 each way trip it would have
cost me to get from my home to where the car broke down. Once after
re-installing the serpentine belt, I didn't even get then 15 miles home
before it fell off again. Dealership paid to have it towed back again -
but embarrassing- what? Had the idler pulley replaced - and replaced -
and replaced.

OK - slight exaggeration on the door falling off - but the upper drivers
side door hinge actually ripped itself off the unibdoy and I could not
shut the door - the door dropped about an inch - had to simultaneously
lift and pull to get the door to close. I had to have a body shop weld a
plate so they could re-attach it.

In answer to the question - Northern California - and not near the ocean
- not a hint of rust anywhere on the van. Still looks good for a 10 year
old van - I actually bought it 10 years ago next week.

And the adjustment bolt on the back hatch did shear off - looked at it
with a trouble light last night to see exactly what was going on - yup -
sheared off right at hinge level. Rear hatch drops about 9 inches or so
and of course can't be shut. Looks like we've been in a major accident -
but not. Thankfully, I don't think there is any other damage to the
hatch and it might be redeemable.

You can choose to believe my wife and I are collectively lousy drivers
and mis-treat our automobiles, but I have a 25 year old BMW320I that I
have put over 200K miles on without this kind of nonsense. Can't
remember when I last had a front end alignment. My 19181 Volvo 240 Turbo
went over 240K miles without this nonsense - finally gave it up when the
cost of a new turbo was more than the car was worth to me. The Bay Area
girl scouts got a buck or two for it.

yes, my wife had a minor rear-end accident where she hit someone at a
light - but that was well after two front steering rack replacements.
Can't lay too much blame on the body shop for that, I think. An yes -
someone hit the rear gate about 4 years ago - a minor tap in bumper to
bumper traffic. Full size SUVs have their bumper set too high for almost
anything but another full size SUV. A nice crease right across the
license plate holder. Enough to cause a catastrophic failure like this 4
years later? Improbable in my mind.

Joe - if there was one hint of improper driving or maintenance I might
agree with you - my wife put 100K+ miles on the BMW320I that I'm now
driving with over 200K miles on it - without this kind of problem - so
all of a sudden she's a demolition derby driver? Sorry to disagree.

The Chrysler statement about "this doesn't happen" i.e. the tailgate
failure came from the service manager at a local Chrysler dealer who
graciously ran a repair history on the van to make sure we'd fulfilled
every recall applicable to this van - we have by the way. Turns out
he's a friend of a fiend and did this as a favor. I don't talk to the
idiots at the nearest Chrysler dealership after that oil change fiasco.

(Maxpower - I did previously note that this van had EVERY Chrysler
recommended service until I had about 150,000 miles on the van and until
the local Chrysler dealer screwed me one time too many on what they
actually did for those expensive service appointments - so don't lecture
me about a little maintenance goes a long way. Do I need to go and check
the torque on every nut and bolt on this van on a regular basis? If
that's your idea or regular maintenance - that's nuts.

But I do take your point to heart - the reason I bought this van was
that Chrysler had made millions of them and I wanted to get something
very reliable reliable as my wife is a home healthcare nurse who puts a
lot of miles on an automobile - and that's why I did every Chrysler
recommended service until about 2 years ago... so much for that dilligence)

So, my thoughtful readers - believe what you wish (and I haven't talked
about a transmission replacement - the passenger side electric window
that doesn't go up and down any more, or the rear wiper that doesn't, or
the radio that doesn't display the time and station any more) but I'm
going to get this fixed as best I can and donate it to charity - I
wouldn't want to take money from some unsuspecting dupe and actually
personally sell it ( road rage anyone?) to someone who might know where
I live.

Northern California is a very benign environment for an automobile. But
a lemon is a lemon where ever it might be.

A new BMW X5 or Mercedes ML320 is starting to sound really good...well,
maybe not the Mercedes - that's Chrysler's parent isn't it?

Peter


peter denyer wrote:
> My 1995 Town and Country has been a mechanical nightmare sice I bought
> it - love the form factor, but it's a dud otherwise - replaced the front
> steering rack 4 times now and all Chrysler can say is "sorry you're not
> happy". Can't keep it in alignment - evey 6 months new front tires and
> an alignment. I won't bother with the litany of other things that broke
> that never should. My repair file is getting quite large...
>
> I was miffed when the drivers side door fell off - well not quite off -
> the upper hange tore itself away from the unibody and obviously the door
> wouldn't close - which left the lights on and drained my battery. Had to
> get a body shop to weld a plate so the upper hinge could be re-attached.
>
> Todays interesting problem - the tailgate fell off - well again I
> exagerate a bit - there is a bolt that goes through the middle of the
> hinges on the tailgate - maybe it's for some sort of alignment or
> adjustment or some such thing . Anyway , the bolt on one of the hinges
> failed - shearing off and droping the tailgate to such an extent that
> the van looked like it had been in a serious accident. Good thing my
> wife was close to home at our local highschool. Someone found some rope
> so my kids could hold the tailgate closed while my wife hobbled home. I
> can post a picture if anyone is interested.
>
> Can anyone tell me what thread and length for this bolt? I'm going to
> have to careully drill out the sheared-off bolt, perhaps re-thread the
> hole and hope that nothing was grossly twisted in this "event". The
> local Chrysler says "this doesn't happen". Well, it did...
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks
> peter
>
>

My wife had a 94 caravan that her door was falling down on the drivers
side, she was backing up with the door open and hit my truck, it sprung
the hindge that i never had fixed, over time the door support started
cracking and the door was coming off, not chryslers problem, but my own, I
had seen a bolt shear off the lift gate before, only because the owner
would let the door slam open, in turn springing the hindges, now you state
you were rear ended??? you may have also sprung the hindge, and over time
sheared the bolt, , and the front end accident, who is to say it was
assembled properly, im just saying that The caravan does not have those
problems, and yes, over time metal does rust, especially 10 yr old metal
that isnt treated such as rotors. keep in mind, this is a 10 yr old
vehicle

My wife had a 94 caravan that her door was falling down on the drivers
side, she was backing up with the door open and hit my truck, it sprung
the hindge that i never had fixed, over time the door support started
cracking and the door was coming off, not chryslers problem, but my own, I
had seen a bolt shear off the lift gate before, only because the owner
would let the door slam open, in turn springing the hindges, now you state
you were rear ended??? you may have also sprung the hindge, and over time
sheared the bolt, , and the front end accident, who is to say it was
assembled properly, im just saying that The caravan does not have those
problems, and yes, over time metal does rust, especially 10 yr old metal
that isnt treated such as rotors. keep in mind, this is a 10 yr old
vehicle

forgot to say..... i am also damnnickname on my PC at work
"peter denyer" > wrote in message
...
> I love the "holy than thou" commentary. It's really quite funny if it
> wasn't so pathetic. Give me a break - I tell you this is what happens
> and your instant assumption is that I am driving into medians and curbs
> on a regular basis and I'm making all this stuff up - not so - I've
> babied this piece of junk since I bought it.
>
> I have owned this car since it was new. I took it into every Chrysler
> recommended service for the best part of 8 years. Believe it - I have
> the receipts. Switched to a more local Chrysler dealer, as opposed to
> the one I bought it from, when it opened just 2 miles away. Finally got
> fed up with the local dealer when I took it in for an oil change and
> $700 later discovered they forgot to do the oil change - amazing what
> else they found wrong (bad front struts - have to be replaced - they're
> dangerous!). The mom-and-pop repair shop around the corner is more
> trustworthy than the Chrysler dealer(s) ever was.
>
> While under the extended warranty - glad I bought it - the front
> steering rack was replaced twice. I've since paid twice additionally for
> this to be replaced. That was the local Chrysler dealerships solution to
> front end alignments that didn't last 6 months. It's sad when you're on
> first name basis with service advisors.
>
> Which is the incompetent alignment shop - either of the two Chrysler
> dealerships or the three different tire shops I have taken the van to -
> surely one of them might have got it right. So "Caravans don't have
> these problems" - mine does and has done since I bought it.
>
> (Maxpower - it's a Town and Country - but that probably makes little
> difference in the analysis - and the answer is once for a front end
> accident and once for a rear end accident - see below)
>
> The serpentine belt used to fall off with amazing regularity - once had
> to have the van towed 180 miles to get it back to the dealer where I
> bought it! I couldn't manage to wait the weekend until a dealership
> opened near where it failed - plus the 180 each way trip it would have
> cost me to get from my home to where the car broke down. Once after
> re-installing the serpentine belt, I didn't even get then 15 miles home
> before it fell off again. Dealership paid to have it towed back again -
> but embarrassing- what? Had the idler pulley replaced - and replaced -
> and replaced.
>
> OK - slight exaggeration on the door falling off - but the upper drivers
> side door hinge actually ripped itself off the unibdoy and I could not
> shut the door - the door dropped about an inch - had to simultaneously
> lift and pull to get the door to close. I had to have a body shop weld a
> plate so they could re-attach it.
>
> In answer to the question - Northern California - and not near the ocean
> - not a hint of rust anywhere on the van. Still looks good for a 10 year
> old van - I actually bought it 10 years ago next week.
>
> And the adjustment bolt on the back hatch did shear off - looked at it
> with a trouble light last night to see exactly what was going on - yup -
> sheared off right at hinge level. Rear hatch drops about 9 inches or so
> and of course can't be shut. Looks like we've been in a major accident -
> but not. Thankfully, I don't think there is any other damage to the
> hatch and it might be redeemable.
>
> You can choose to believe my wife and I are collectively lousy drivers
> and mis-treat our automobiles, but I have a 25 year old BMW320I that I
> have put over 200K miles on without this kind of nonsense. Can't
> remember when I last had a front end alignment. My 19181 Volvo 240 Turbo
> went over 240K miles without this nonsense - finally gave it up when the
> cost of a new turbo was more than the car was worth to me. The Bay Area
> girl scouts got a buck or two for it.
>
> yes, my wife had a minor rear-end accident where she hit someone at a
> light - but that was well after two front steering rack replacements.
> Can't lay too much blame on the body shop for that, I think. An yes -
> someone hit the rear gate about 4 years ago - a minor tap in bumper to
> bumper traffic. Full size SUVs have their bumper set too high for almost
> anything but another full size SUV. A nice crease right across the
> license plate holder. Enough to cause a catastrophic failure like this 4
> years later? Improbable in my mind.
>
> Joe - if there was one hint of improper driving or maintenance I might
> agree with you - my wife put 100K+ miles on the BMW320I that I'm now
> driving with over 200K miles on it - without this kind of problem - so
> all of a sudden she's a demolition derby driver? Sorry to disagree.
>
> The Chrysler statement about "this doesn't happen" i.e. the tailgate
> failure came from the service manager at a local Chrysler dealer who
> graciously ran a repair history on the van to make sure we'd fulfilled
> every recall applicable to this van - we have by the way. Turns out
> he's a friend of a fiend and did this as a favor. I don't talk to the
> idiots at the nearest Chrysler dealership after that oil change fiasco.
>
> (Maxpower - I did previously note that this van had EVERY Chrysler
> recommended service until I had about 150,000 miles on the van and until
> the local Chrysler dealer screwed me one time too many on what they
> actually did for those expensive service appointments - so don't lecture
> me about a little maintenance goes a long way. Do I need to go and check
> the torque on every nut and bolt on this van on a regular basis? If
> that's your idea or regular maintenance - that's nuts.
>
> But I do take your point to heart - the reason I bought this van was
> that Chrysler had made millions of them and I wanted to get something
> very reliable reliable as my wife is a home healthcare nurse who puts a
> lot of miles on an automobile - and that's why I did every Chrysler
> recommended service until about 2 years ago... so much for that
dilligence)
>
> So, my thoughtful readers - believe what you wish (and I haven't talked
> about a transmission replacement - the passenger side electric window
> that doesn't go up and down any more, or the rear wiper that doesn't, or
> the radio that doesn't display the time and station any more) but I'm
> going to get this fixed as best I can and donate it to charity - I
> wouldn't want to take money from some unsuspecting dupe and actually
> personally sell it ( road rage anyone?) to someone who might know where
> I live.
>
> Northern California is a very benign environment for an automobile. But
> a lemon is a lemon where ever it might be.
>
> A new BMW X5 or Mercedes ML320 is starting to sound really good...well,
> maybe not the Mercedes - that's Chrysler's parent isn't it?
>
> Peter
>
>
> peter denyer wrote:
> > My 1995 Town and Country has been a mechanical nightmare sice I bought
> > it - love the form factor, but it's a dud otherwise - replaced the front
> > steering rack 4 times now and all Chrysler can say is "sorry you're not
> > happy". Can't keep it in alignment - evey 6 months new front tires and
> > an alignment. I won't bother with the litany of other things that broke
> > that never should. My repair file is getting quite large...
> >
> > I was miffed when the drivers side door fell off - well not quite off -
> > the upper hange tore itself away from the unibody and obviously the door
> > wouldn't close - which left the lights on and drained my battery. Had to
> > get a body shop to weld a plate so the upper hinge could be re-attached.
> >
> > Todays interesting problem - the tailgate fell off - well again I
> > exagerate a bit - there is a bolt that goes through the middle of the
> > hinges on the tailgate - maybe it's for some sort of alignment or
> > adjustment or some such thing . Anyway , the bolt on one of the hinges
> > failed - shearing off and droping the tailgate to such an extent that
> > the van looked like it had been in a serious accident. Good thing my
> > wife was close to home at our local highschool. Someone found some rope
> > so my kids could hold the tailgate closed while my wife hobbled home. I
> > can post a picture if anyone is interested.
> >
> > Can anyone tell me what thread and length for this bolt? I'm going to
> > have to careully drill out the sheared-off bolt, perhaps re-thread the
> > hole and hope that nothing was grossly twisted in this "event". The
> > local Chrysler says "this doesn't happen". Well, it did...
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks
> > peter
> >
> >
>

forgot to say..... i am also damnnickname on my PC at work
"peter denyer" > wrote in message
...
> I love the "holy than thou" commentary. It's really quite funny if it
> wasn't so pathetic. Give me a break - I tell you this is what happens
> and your instant assumption is that I am driving into medians and curbs
> on a regular basis and I'm making all this stuff up - not so - I've
> babied this piece of junk since I bought it.
>
> I have owned this car since it was new. I took it into every Chrysler
> recommended service for the best part of 8 years. Believe it - I have
> the receipts. Switched to a more local Chrysler dealer, as opposed to
> the one I bought it from, when it opened just 2 miles away. Finally got
> fed up with the local dealer when I took it in for an oil change and
> $700 later discovered they forgot to do the oil change - amazing what
> else they found wrong (bad front struts - have to be replaced - they're
> dangerous!). The mom-and-pop repair shop around the corner is more
> trustworthy than the Chrysler dealer(s) ever was.
>
> While under the extended warranty - glad I bought it - the front
> steering rack was replaced twice. I've since paid twice additionally for
> this to be replaced. That was the local Chrysler dealerships solution to
> front end alignments that didn't last 6 months. It's sad when you're on
> first name basis with service advisors.
>
> Which is the incompetent alignment shop - either of the two Chrysler
> dealerships or the three different tire shops I have taken the van to -
> surely one of them might have got it right. So "Caravans don't have
> these problems" - mine does and has done since I bought it.
>
> (Maxpower - it's a Town and Country - but that probably makes little
> difference in the analysis - and the answer is once for a front end
> accident and once for a rear end accident - see below)
>
> The serpentine belt used to fall off with amazing regularity - once had
> to have the van towed 180 miles to get it back to the dealer where I
> bought it! I couldn't manage to wait the weekend until a dealership
> opened near where it failed - plus the 180 each way trip it would have
> cost me to get from my home to where the car broke down. Once after
> re-installing the serpentine belt, I didn't even get then 15 miles home
> before it fell off again. Dealership paid to have it towed back again -
> but embarrassing- what? Had the idler pulley replaced - and replaced -
> and replaced.
>
> OK - slight exaggeration on the door falling off - but the upper drivers
> side door hinge actually ripped itself off the unibdoy and I could not
> shut the door - the door dropped about an inch - had to simultaneously
> lift and pull to get the door to close. I had to have a body shop weld a
> plate so they could re-attach it.
>
> In answer to the question - Northern California - and not near the ocean
> - not a hint of rust anywhere on the van. Still looks good for a 10 year
> old van - I actually bought it 10 years ago next week.
>
> And the adjustment bolt on the back hatch did shear off - looked at it
> with a trouble light last night to see exactly what was going on - yup -
> sheared off right at hinge level. Rear hatch drops about 9 inches or so
> and of course can't be shut. Looks like we've been in a major accident -
> but not. Thankfully, I don't think there is any other damage to the
> hatch and it might be redeemable.
>
> You can choose to believe my wife and I are collectively lousy drivers
> and mis-treat our automobiles, but I have a 25 year old BMW320I that I
> have put over 200K miles on without this kind of nonsense. Can't
> remember when I last had a front end alignment. My 19181 Volvo 240 Turbo
> went over 240K miles without this nonsense - finally gave it up when the
> cost of a new turbo was more than the car was worth to me. The Bay Area
> girl scouts got a buck or two for it.
>
> yes, my wife had a minor rear-end accident where she hit someone at a
> light - but that was well after two front steering rack replacements.
> Can't lay too much blame on the body shop for that, I think. An yes -
> someone hit the rear gate about 4 years ago - a minor tap in bumper to
> bumper traffic. Full size SUVs have their bumper set too high for almost
> anything but another full size SUV. A nice crease right across the
> license plate holder. Enough to cause a catastrophic failure like this 4
> years later? Improbable in my mind.
>
> Joe - if there was one hint of improper driving or maintenance I might
> agree with you - my wife put 100K+ miles on the BMW320I that I'm now
> driving with over 200K miles on it - without this kind of problem - so
> all of a sudden she's a demolition derby driver? Sorry to disagree.
>
> The Chrysler statement about "this doesn't happen" i.e. the tailgate
> failure came from the service manager at a local Chrysler dealer who
> graciously ran a repair history on the van to make sure we'd fulfilled
> every recall applicable to this van - we have by the way. Turns out
> he's a friend of a fiend and did this as a favor. I don't talk to the
> idiots at the nearest Chrysler dealership after that oil change fiasco.
>
> (Maxpower - I did previously note that this van had EVERY Chrysler
> recommended service until I had about 150,000 miles on the van and until
> the local Chrysler dealer screwed me one time too many on what they
> actually did for those expensive service appointments - so don't lecture
> me about a little maintenance goes a long way. Do I need to go and check
> the torque on every nut and bolt on this van on a regular basis? If
> that's your idea or regular maintenance - that's nuts.
>
> But I do take your point to heart - the reason I bought this van was
> that Chrysler had made millions of them and I wanted to get something
> very reliable reliable as my wife is a home healthcare nurse who puts a
> lot of miles on an automobile - and that's why I did every Chrysler
> recommended service until about 2 years ago... so much for that
dilligence)
>
> So, my thoughtful readers - believe what you wish (and I haven't talked
> about a transmission replacement - the passenger side electric window
> that doesn't go up and down any more, or the rear wiper that doesn't, or
> the radio that doesn't display the time and station any more) but I'm
> going to get this fixed as best I can and donate it to charity - I
> wouldn't want to take money from some unsuspecting dupe and actually
> personally sell it ( road rage anyone?) to someone who might know where
> I live.
>
> Northern California is a very benign environment for an automobile. But
> a lemon is a lemon where ever it might be.
>
> A new BMW X5 or Mercedes ML320 is starting to sound really good...well,
> maybe not the Mercedes - that's Chrysler's parent isn't it?
>
> Peter
>
>
> peter denyer wrote:
> > My 1995 Town and Country has been a mechanical nightmare sice I bought
> > it - love the form factor, but it's a dud otherwise - replaced the front
> > steering rack 4 times now and all Chrysler can say is "sorry you're not
> > happy". Can't keep it in alignment - evey 6 months new front tires and
> > an alignment. I won't bother with the litany of other things that broke
> > that never should. My repair file is getting quite large...
> >
> > I was miffed when the drivers side door fell off - well not quite off -
> > the upper hange tore itself away from the unibody and obviously the door
> > wouldn't close - which left the lights on and drained my battery. Had to
> > get a body shop to weld a plate so the upper hinge could be re-attached.
> >
> > Todays interesting problem - the tailgate fell off - well again I
> > exagerate a bit - there is a bolt that goes through the middle of the
> > hinges on the tailgate - maybe it's for some sort of alignment or
> > adjustment or some such thing . Anyway , the bolt on one of the hinges
> > failed - shearing off and droping the tailgate to such an extent that
> > the van looked like it had been in a serious accident. Good thing my
> > wife was close to home at our local highschool. Someone found some rope
> > so my kids could hold the tailgate closed while my wife hobbled home. I
> > can post a picture if anyone is interested.
> >
> > Can anyone tell me what thread and length for this bolt? I'm going to
> > have to careully drill out the sheared-off bolt, perhaps re-thread the
> > hole and hope that nothing was grossly twisted in this "event". The
> > local Chrysler says "this doesn't happen". Well, it did...
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks
> > peter
> >
> >
>

damnnickname wrote:

> My wife had a 94 caravan that her door was falling down on the drivers
> side, she was backing up with the door open and hit my truck, it sprung
> the hindge that i never had fixed, over time the door support started
> cracking and the door was coming off, not chryslers problem, but my own, I
> had seen a bolt shear off the lift gate before, only because the owner
> would let the door slam open, in turn springing the hindges, now you state
> you were rear ended??? you may have also sprung the hindge, and over time
> sheared the bolt, , and the front end accident, who is to say it was
> assembled properly, im just saying that The caravan does not have those
> problems, and yes, over time metal does rust, especially 10 yr old metal
> that isnt treated such as rotors. keep in mind, this is a 10 yr old
> vehicle
>

10 years old! Wow! I'm currently driving a 16 year old Porsche every
day, probably soon to be replaced with my mom's 18 year old VW. Prior
to that I had a 20 year old VW that served me well for upwards of 60K
miles - and it had about 180K on it when I got it. I don't make excuses
like "it's an old car" when something (rarely) breaks. Probably would
still have the first VW today if I'd gotten more motivated to fix it up
and fixed a few minor issues with it like the crappy paint and
nonfunctional A/C instead of letting it sit for a year and a half :/

I do, however, sadly say things like "it's a Porsche" when I belly up to
the parts counter, however, but you expect that... But my point was, if
you consider a car "old" and liable to break after 10 years, that's not
a ringing endorsement of your chosen vehicle. FWIW my first car that I
drove (I have to qualify that, the first car I actually owned was a
street rod project that I ended up selling when I didn't get it
completed by the time I graduated from college and had to go find a Real
Job) was a '67 Dart with over 200K miles on it... and other than some
issues caused by a badly executed engine swap (not by me) I *still*
didn't have to make the "old car" excuses for it - and this was in '96
or thereabouts. My girlfriend at the same time owned a '69 Valiant that
was in much better shape; she drove it daily for 4 or 5 years before
selling it for a new Passat with not much more than routine maintenance
and a suspension rebuild that Yours Truly did for her in front of her
apartment.

The whole concept that a 10 year old vehicle is liable to have strange,
unusual failures is one that makes me shake my head and think that
perhaps you need to expect more from your vehicles. Maybe the OP *did*
do some things to promote these failures, maybe he didn't, I'm not
judging. But the whole concept that they are somehow acceptable is silly.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

damnnickname wrote:

> My wife had a 94 caravan that her door was falling down on the drivers
> side, she was backing up with the door open and hit my truck, it sprung
> the hindge that i never had fixed, over time the door support started
> cracking and the door was coming off, not chryslers problem, but my own, I
> had seen a bolt shear off the lift gate before, only because the owner
> would let the door slam open, in turn springing the hindges, now you state
> you were rear ended??? you may have also sprung the hindge, and over time
> sheared the bolt, , and the front end accident, who is to say it was
> assembled properly, im just saying that The caravan does not have those
> problems, and yes, over time metal does rust, especially 10 yr old metal
> that isnt treated such as rotors. keep in mind, this is a 10 yr old
> vehicle
>

10 years old! Wow! I'm currently driving a 16 year old Porsche every
day, probably soon to be replaced with my mom's 18 year old VW. Prior
to that I had a 20 year old VW that served me well for upwards of 60K
miles - and it had about 180K on it when I got it. I don't make excuses
like "it's an old car" when something (rarely) breaks. Probably would
still have the first VW today if I'd gotten more motivated to fix it up
and fixed a few minor issues with it like the crappy paint and
nonfunctional A/C instead of letting it sit for a year and a half :/

I do, however, sadly say things like "it's a Porsche" when I belly up to
the parts counter, however, but you expect that... But my point was, if
you consider a car "old" and liable to break after 10 years, that's not
a ringing endorsement of your chosen vehicle. FWIW my first car that I
drove (I have to qualify that, the first car I actually owned was a
street rod project that I ended up selling when I didn't get it
completed by the time I graduated from college and had to go find a Real
Job) was a '67 Dart with over 200K miles on it... and other than some
issues caused by a badly executed engine swap (not by me) I *still*
didn't have to make the "old car" excuses for it - and this was in '96
or thereabouts. My girlfriend at the same time owned a '69 Valiant that
was in much better shape; she drove it daily for 4 or 5 years before
selling it for a new Passat with not much more than routine maintenance
and a suspension rebuild that Yours Truly did for her in front of her
apartment.

The whole concept that a 10 year old vehicle is liable to have strange,
unusual failures is one that makes me shake my head and think that
perhaps you need to expect more from your vehicles. Maybe the OP *did*
do some things to promote these failures, maybe he didn't, I'm not
judging. But the whole concept that they are somehow acceptable is silly.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

You know, its is ashame, i will never dispute that the foriegn cars are
built 100% better then the domestic vehicles, and that goes for quality
also, if i took 100 Chrysler cars and 100 foriegn cars and inspected them
brand new, i would problems with the domestic ones and maybe not one with
the the foriegn, and it has been like that as far as i can remember
"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...
> damnnickname wrote:
>
> > My wife had a 94 caravan that her door was falling down on the drivers
> > side, she was backing up with the door open and hit my truck, it sprung
> > the hindge that i never had fixed, over time the door support started
> > cracking and the door was coming off, not chryslers problem, but my own,
I
> > had seen a bolt shear off the lift gate before, only because the owner
> > would let the door slam open, in turn springing the hindges, now you
state
> > you were rear ended??? you may have also sprung the hindge, and over
time
> > sheared the bolt, , and the front end accident, who is to say it was
> > assembled properly, im just saying that The caravan does not have those
> > problems, and yes, over time metal does rust, especially 10 yr old metal
> > that isnt treated such as rotors. keep in mind, this is a 10 yr old
> > vehicle
> >
>
> 10 years old! Wow! I'm currently driving a 16 year old Porsche every
> day, probably soon to be replaced with my mom's 18 year old VW. Prior
> to that I had a 20 year old VW that served me well for upwards of 60K
> miles - and it had about 180K on it when I got it. I don't make excuses
> like "it's an old car" when something (rarely) breaks. Probably would
> still have the first VW today if I'd gotten more motivated to fix it up
> and fixed a few minor issues with it like the crappy paint and
> nonfunctional A/C instead of letting it sit for a year and a half :/
>
> I do, however, sadly say things like "it's a Porsche" when I belly up to
> the parts counter, however, but you expect that... But my point was, if
> you consider a car "old" and liable to break after 10 years, that's not
> a ringing endorsement of your chosen vehicle. FWIW my first car that I
> drove (I have to qualify that, the first car I actually owned was a
> street rod project that I ended up selling when I didn't get it
> completed by the time I graduated from college and had to go find a Real
> Job) was a '67 Dart with over 200K miles on it... and other than some
> issues caused by a badly executed engine swap (not by me) I *still*
> didn't have to make the "old car" excuses for it - and this was in '96
> or thereabouts. My girlfriend at the same time owned a '69 Valiant that
> was in much better shape; she drove it daily for 4 or 5 years before
> selling it for a new Passat with not much more than routine maintenance
> and a suspension rebuild that Yours Truly did for her in front of her
> apartment.
>
> The whole concept that a 10 year old vehicle is liable to have strange,
> unusual failures is one that makes me shake my head and think that
> perhaps you need to expect more from your vehicles. Maybe the OP *did*
> do some things to promote these failures, maybe he didn't, I'm not
> judging. But the whole concept that they are somehow acceptable is silly.
>
> nate
>
> --
> replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
> http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel