Incredibly Stupid & Criminal Pedestrian (Long)

In article >,
"David W. Poole, Jr." > wrote:

> On 5 Jul 2005 06:18:25 -0700, "Harry K" > was
> understood to have stated the following:
>
> >
> >Agree: It will contribute nothing to braking efficiency. Shifting to
> >a lower gear in emergency (as in the scenario) takes time away from
> >controlling the car.
>
> 100 foot skid marks are not the mark of a car under control.

Actually, he said "screech marks" and you get the tires screeching (and
marks on the road even without fully locking the wheels.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

In article .com>,
"Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" > wrote:

> Alan Baker wrote:
> >
> > Use engine braking for speed control on long hills? sure. It keeps the
> > brakes from overheating.
> >
> > But use engine braking for panic situations? No. No way.
>
> BS - it's not one or the other. You can use both and a quick thinking
> person will hit the brakes in an emergency and downshift at the same
> time. I've never had to do it cause i drive so slowly but some nut
> doing 90 mph when he sees a road blockage 50 yards ahead should do both.

Why? The maximum braking you can get is achievable with the brake pedal
alone. Gearing down won't improve on it.

Why in the world would you want to operate a clutch and potentially jerk
the car into a skid when the engine speed doesn't match the road speed
in the new lower gear precisely (unless you want to heel and toe while
making a panic stop; can you even do it under normal circumstances)?

In short, why would you want to distract yourself with operating three
pedals in coordinated fashion, when operating one fully (modulating the
brakes) and one simply (clutch to the floor) will get the job done and
leave more of your attention?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

In article >,
"Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote:

> "Arif Khokar" > wrote in message
> ...
> > bosk wrote:
> >
> > > Looking back on this, I'm so glad I was driving the older Toyota stick
> > > shift, not because of the manual trans. but because the other car I
> > > sometimes drive (a relative's) is a similar looking wagon, newer
> > > Subaru, but it is automatic and has ABS brakes which I still cannot get
> > > used to, particularly the loss of steering and control I've experienced
> > > in it.
> >
> > With ABS, you're better able to maintain steering control as opposed to
> > skidding in a stright line like you did in the Toyota.
>
> Except that overcorrecting while steering during ABS braking can lead to a
> spinout (car) or rollover (minivan, SUV), if the vehicle doesn't have some
> sort of intelligent traction control system.

It's not as likely to lead to a spin out as your suggesting of engine
braking the rear tires and steering with the fronts!

>
> I'm almost convinced it's better to NOT have ABS and properly learn
> threshold braking (releasing the brakes when the wheels first lock up and
> reapplying them again when the wheels aren't locked up anymore, then repeat
> as the emergency situation requires).

That isn't threshold braking. That's precisely what ABS does, but better
and faster so that ABS pretty much simulates threshold braking.

>
> And of course, ABS or no ABS, the inevitable tailgater following too close
> behind is always a hazard whenever any sort of emergency braking situation
> has to occur. They'll never stop in time, following that close.

That's why the first rule of driving isn't to have fast reflexes. Have
good situational awareness and know what you're best escape route is at
any moment.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

Alan Baker wrote:
> In article .com>,
> "Laura Bush murdered her boy friend" > wrote:
>
>
>>Alan Baker wrote:
>>
>>>Use engine braking for speed control on long hills? sure. It keeps the
>>>brakes from overheating.
>>>
>>>But use engine braking for panic situations? No. No way.
>>
>>BS - it's not one or the other. You can use both and a quick thinking
>>person will hit the brakes in an emergency and downshift at the same
>>time. I've never had to do it cause i drive so slowly but some nut
>>doing 90 mph when he sees a road blockage 50 yards ahead should do both.
>
>
> Why? The maximum braking you can get is achievable with the brake pedal
> alone. Gearing down won't improve on it.
>
> Why in the world would you want to operate a clutch and potentially jerk
> the car into a skid when the engine speed doesn't match the road speed
> in the new lower gear precisely (unless you want to heel and toe while
> making a panic stop; can you even do it under normal circumstances)?
>
> In short, why would you want to distract yourself with operating three
> pedals in coordinated fashion, when operating one fully (modulating the
> brakes) and one simply (clutch to the floor) will get the job done and
> leave more of your attention?
>

Dood... you do realize you're responding to the same troll that claimed
that manual transmissions were for psychopaths, right?

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 10:34:48 -0700, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> was understood to have stated the
following:

>I'm almost convinced it's better to NOT have ABS and properly learn
>threshold braking (releasing the brakes when the wheels first lock up and
>reapplying them again when the wheels aren't locked up anymore, then repeat
>as the emergency situation requires).

Do professional automobile racers equip their cars with antilock
brakes?

Personally, for what little it's worth, if I were going to be driving
at the edge of the envelope, I would prefer a manual transmission and
a non-ABS braking system to an automatic tranny with an ABS system.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 22:18:59 GMT, "Dave" > was
understood to have stated the following:

>> Initiation into the ranks of the stupid. I believe aunt Judy went
>> through this procedure some time back, without as happy of an ending.
>>
>>
>
>Hey, I just remembered later, the pedestrian was wearing a helmet. Yet one
>more reason to think that it might have been intentional. Why wear a helmet
>to cross the street and then go running? -Dave

I remembered that from the story as well, but chalked it up to one of
those things that make you go "hmm." (with apologies to Arsenio).

If it was a drug deal turned sour, well, maybe helmets are the new way
the heads identify themselves to each other. Can you help us out on
this issue, Judy?


--

The last song I started on my PC was: Matchbox 20 - Real World - Yourself Or Someone Like You
K:\Audio\Matchbox 20\Yourself Or Someone Like You\01-Real World.mp3
This is track 32 of 457 in the current playlist.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:39:27 GMT, Alan Baker >
was understood to have stated the following:

>
>Actually, he said "screech marks" and you get the tires screeching (and
>marks on the road even without fully locking the wheels.

Thanks for pointing out a *second* reading comprehension issue. :-D


--

The last song I started on my PC was: Godsmack - Now or Never - Godsmack
K:\Audio\Godsmack\Godsmack\09 - Now or Never.mp3
This is track 33 of 457 in the current playlist.

In article >,
"David W. Poole, Jr." > wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 10:34:48 -0700, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> > was understood to have stated the
> following:
>
> >I'm almost convinced it's better to NOT have ABS and properly learn
> >threshold braking (releasing the brakes when the wheels first lock up and
> >reapplying them again when the wheels aren't locked up anymore, then repeat
> >as the emergency situation requires).
>
> Do professional automobile racers equip their cars with antilock
> brakes?

They did in F1 until they were banned.

<http://www.f1-grandprix.com/history6.html>

"Although their struggle to remain competitive would be doomed, in the
'87 season Team Lotus unveiled the first F1 car with a computer-
controlled "active suspension" system. Active suspension later joined
by the semi-automatic gearbox, traction control, "black box" controlled
starting programs and anti-lock brakes "

>
> Personally, for what little it's worth, if I were going to be driving
> at the edge of the envelope, I would prefer a manual transmission and
> a non-ABS braking system to an automatic tranny with an ABS system.

And the very best in the world would like fully automatic transmissions
and ABS. Think about it...

:-)

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

"Alan Baker" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote:
>
> > "Arif Khokar" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > bosk wrote:
> > >
> > > > Looking back on this, I'm so glad I was driving the older Toyota
stick
> > > > shift, not because of the manual trans. but because the other car I
> > > > sometimes drive (a relative's) is a similar looking wagon, newer
> > > > Subaru, but it is automatic and has ABS brakes which I still cannot
get
> > > > used to, particularly the loss of steering and control I've
experienced
> > > > in it.
> > >
> > > With ABS, you're better able to maintain steering control as opposed
to
> > > skidding in a stright line like you did in the Toyota.
> >
> > Except that overcorrecting while steering during ABS braking can lead to
a
> > spinout (car) or rollover (minivan, SUV), if the vehicle doesn't have
some
> > sort of intelligent traction control system.
>
> It's not as likely to lead to a spin out as your suggesting of engine
> braking the rear tires and steering with the fronts!
>
[snip...]

That claim is made by David W. Poole Jr., not me.

David W. Poole, Jr. wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2005 06:18:25 -0700, "Harry K" > was
> understood to have stated the following:
>
> >
> >Agree: It will contribute nothing to braking efficiency. Shifting to
> >a lower gear in emergency (as in the scenario) takes time away from
> >controlling the car.
>
> 100 foot skid marks are not the mark of a car under control.
>
> --
>
> The last song I started on my PC was: 3 Doors Down - Ticket to Heaven - Away From The Sun
> K:\Audio\3 Doors Down\Away From The Sun\04 - Ticket to Heaven.mp3
> This is track 31 of 457 in the current playlist.

Agreed that the car wasn't under control, that is driver problem, not
braking problem.
You also don't get 100 ft screech marks by downshifting. Care to
explain the physics of how downshifting would decrease braking distance
over just using the brakes?

Harry K