Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:01 -0500:

> I do know lots of places will rip you off. Local Ford dealer did to a
> friend. He took a car with a V8 to get the plugs changed. It came back
> with the same miss in the engine it had. They only changed 7 plugs as the
> 8th was very hard to get to. He went back and complained and was asked how
> he knew the plug was not changed. He said because 7 were of one brand and
> the hard to get to was another.

This is true.
Anyone, not only Sears, can rip you off.

That's why I recommend my own kids do three simple things when they bring their
cars to a mechanic:

1. Mark everything (e.g., mark the plugs, bolts, water pump, etc.)
2. Ask for the old parts back (they'd better be the same marked parts!)
3. Watch them while they're working (if they let you)

Paintedcow wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:34:59 -0600:

> I go to Sears for Craftsman tools, but I rarely buy anything else.

I am the same. I "do" buy Craftsman tools, although, lately, Harbor
Frieght tools work fine - but - maybe because I already have all the
basic tools, so, what I need are things like tire changers and
static balancers nowadays (not wrenches and screwdrivers).


> They charged about $20 more than the chain store for the
> alignment, but they did the work and said all the parts were fine.

Remind me to tell you the story of when I want to AAmco (again, as
a stupid kid) when they wanted to charge me $400 for a new transmission
when the real problem turned out to be bad motor mounts (causing a
screeching of the belts).

I found this out ONLY because I didn't have the money to pay $400
to Aamco. They were "professionals" so I believed them, but, when
I went to a mechanic, he said the only problem was the motor mounts,
which, after I replaced them (pretty easy job) *was* the problem!

So, AAmco is either incompetent, or crooks.
And, we all know they're not *that* incompetant.

The end result is that you can only trust yourself, and the guys
here who aren't making any money off of you and me.

Thanks you guys! (PS: Where the hell is Oren & Chris?)

> I will never take another car to Sears, K-Mart, or any of the chain
> stores for any repairs.

Don't get me started on the actions of Midas Muffler last I went there!

> I once tried to do an alignment myself. Forget it.... I'll never try
> that again.

Alignment is one of the last bastions that a shade-tree mechanic
doesn't do.

I *bought* all the tools (e.g., digital levels) and made a toe measurement
tool. While toe is the easiest of all, it's not easy to measure nor to
even UNDERSTAND alignment. I think I understand it better than most, but,
even so, we need about $500 to $1,000 in tools to do the job easily.

Notice, we do NOT need the $50K to $100K tool that the shops use. They
have VASTLY different requirements than we have. We just need a level
garage floor, decent measurement tools, a decent lift system, and
the knowledge of how to convert inches to degrees and vice versa.

Paintedcow wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:55 -0600:

> Getting tires off and on rims is not easy without a "tire
> machine" and I still would not be able to balance them....

It's very easy to mount and unmount "medium" profile (50 series)
tires on BBS aluminum rims using the Harbor Freight tool.

I have done SUV tires (70 series) too, which are much harder
but still doable.

I wouldn't go any bigger than 17 inch diameter though, nor
any taller than 70 series (and I prefer my 50 series as the
shorter and thinner the sidewall, the easier it is).

The aluminum rims don't get scratched at all (a bit of red
paint, that's it) and the steel rims are actually more of
a pain because in my experience, they're harder to balance
and the weights go on differently (bang on edge versus stick
on the inside).

All you need are three things, none of which are expensive:
1. Compressor (most already have that)
2. Tire Changing Tool (Harbor Freight has them on sale periodically)
3. Static Wheel Balancer (same as above, costs more than the changer)

My first 5 wheel replacement job payed for all the tools as the
price for the tools and weights was almost exactly what it would
have cost for a shop to mount and balance the five tires I had
shipped to my house from Tire Rack.

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>I'm gonna patch my first automotive tire this week.
>
>I need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch
>as I got a flat today, switched with the spare, and went
>about a half mile to the nearest auto parts store.
> https://i.imgur.com/kb3a6rs.jpg
>
>All they had are bike-tire-type patches at the one auto parts
>store I stopped at today; they only had crappy passenger tire
>patches (little round things, very thin).
>
>I prefer rectangular-cut larger patches (dunno why - I just
>feel they might hold better). Those that are something like
>three or four inches long or so.
>
>I can easily remove the tire and replace it on the rim
>and balance it afterward so this question is only about
>the patch. I do not want to patch it from the outside
>because I feel that isn't as good as from inside.
>
>Where do you get your inside-tire automotive tire patches?
>What type of patch/glue/prep do you recommend?
> https://i.imgur.com/InL9A8y.jpg
Take it to a real tire shop and have a "mushroom" patch installed.
It has a plug and a patch combined..
The "tech" product is one of the best.

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:39:02 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:23:09 -0500:
>
>> Interesting to learn this:
>>
>> http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=77
>>
>> Wondered why it cost me $30 to get a tire repaired a few years ago.
>> The tire has held up well.
>
>Out here, at $100/hour shop rates, it could easily cost more just
>for the labor, plus you have to rebalance and they often destroy
>the valve and they are brutal on your expensive soft rims!
>
>I'm sick and tired of the brutish monkeys prying off my BBS
>hubcaps with screwdrivers, damaging the soft rims, torquing
>the lug bolts to 100 foot pounds instead of 84, not removing
>the old weights when balancing, putting the same psi into
>all four wheels, etc. They're just horrid.
>
>So, I'm just gonna do it myself.
>
>But that takes knowledge, so, I'm glad you pointed me to that
>web page. It shows that you don't want *air* to get in between
>the plies, so that's important to put the plug in there to
>prevent air from sneaking in between the plies.
>
>They call them "mushroom" patches in that article and they
>say that the patch keeps air in and the plug keeps air and
>moisture out of the plies.
>
>I just want to do the job right, instead of letting the monkeys
>do the job wrong. This will take all the advice you know of!
>
>
>
Take the tire off yourself. Take it to the shop for repair. Remount it
yourself. Thatway you are not paying the "monkeys" to damage your
wheels.

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:49:28 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:
>
>> I worked at Sears changing and repairing tires and a few other minor
>> repairs. They had plug/patches similar to them back in 1970. Used a lot of
>> them.
>
>Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
>to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!
>
>< begin rant >
>
>When I was young and stupid, I brought my 1970 clunker to Sears for
>a $100 alignment.
>
>The car had 90K miles on it and I had failed inspection (in those days,
>they lifted the front end and checked for suspension wear).
>
>I brought it to K-Mart, who, for something like $20 told me I needed
>to replace the idler arm, the pitman arm, and the tie rod ends.
>
>I replaced all of them, and started to do the alignment but quickly
>realized that I just didn't have the tools to MEASURE the angles
>correctly (and to convert inches to degrees, etc.). I got as far
>as doing the toe but gave up when it came to camber and caster.
>
>I had MARKED EVERYTHING though, with yellow nail polish, because
>I wanted a before-and-after look at things (I was pretty detailed,
>even then).
>
>So I take it to Sears, pay my $100, and watch they guy. He never
>once touched the car, but at one point, I was distracted by the shop
>asking me to pay so maybe he did the work while I wasn't looking?
>
>Anyway, I pay and drive home and put the car on a lift to snap
>pictures. Guess what. Not a single eccentric was touched! Not one.
>I could tell because I was sloppy with the nail polish and not a
>single bolt was even MOVED!
>
>The *******s. They stole my money. And my time. And, I'm sure,
>I wasn't the only one.
>
>I go back. I complain. They put it on the lift. Not a single thing
>was right except for the toe (which "I" had done myself!).
>
>Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
>He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
>old! Can you believe that.
>
>I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
>I just let them re-align it.
>
>I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
>to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.
>
>It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
>Absolutely criminal.
>
>I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
>Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
>life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.
>
>The're criminals.
>I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
>It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.
>
>< end rant >
You can put just about any "chain tire shop" name in place of Sears
and be just as accurate. There are a few good ones of every brand -
but more bad ones.

Independents and to some extent automotive dealers are significantly
better.

I've had issues with Firestomne. BF Goodrich, and in the old days
Uniroyal tire centers all doing the rip-off - either attempting it on
me, or doing it to my customers.

On Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:56:18 -0500, Micky >
wrote:

>On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:
>
>>I'm gonna patch my first automotive tire this week.
>
>I just use "strings", with rubber cement, and it works well.
>I follow the instructions.
>
>I used to use "plugs'.
>
>My probe/rasp tool finally broke, so I bought a better quality one.
>Maybe I bought a better quality of both.
>
>
>
>>I need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch
>>as I got a flat today, switched with the spare, and went
>>about a half mile to the nearest auto parts store.
>> https://i.imgur.com/kb3a6rs.jpg
>>
>>All they had are bike-tire-type patches at the one auto parts
>>store I stopped at today; they only had crappy passenger tire
>>patches (little round things, very thin).
>>
>>I prefer rectangular-cut larger patches (dunno why - I just
>>feel they might hold better). Those that are something like
>>three or four inches long or so.
>>
>>I can easily remove the tire and replace it on the rim
>>and balance it afterward so this question is only about
>>the patch. I do not want to patch it from the outside
>>because I feel that isn't as good as from inside.
>>
>>Where do you get your inside-tire automotive tire patches?
>>What type of patch/glue/prep do you recommend?
>> https://i.imgur.com/InL9A8y.jpg
The plug patch is far superior to the string. I'll use a string in
an emergency - reluctantly.

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:13:01 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
> wrote:

>
>"Danny D." > wrote in message
...
>> Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:
>>
>>
>> Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
>> to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!
>>
>>>
>> Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
>> He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
>> old! Can you believe that.
>>
>> I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
>> I just let them re-align it.
>>
>> I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
>> to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.
>>
>> It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
>> Absolutely criminal.
>>
>> I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
>> Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
>> life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.
>>
>> The're criminals.
>> I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
>> It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.
>>
>
>I was about 19 at the time. Just a part time job while in school.
>I don't know about the quality of work, but at that store I know they did
>make an attempt at doing whatever was suspose to be done, maybe others
>don't.
>
>I do know lots of places will rip you off. Local Ford dealer did to a
>friend. He took a car with a V8 to get the plugs changed. It came back
>with the same miss in the engine it had. They only changed 7 plugs as the
>8th was very hard to get to. He went back and complained and was asked how
>he knew the plug was not changed. He said because 7 were of one brand and
>the hard to get to was another.
>
>I hate that a local 'shade tree mechanic' got too old and quit. He was an
>honest man and good at what he did. I had him to do several jobs for me
>like changing a timing belt. He recommended a few othe things such as the
>water pump as it was driven by the belt and all it was 4 bolts to do it.
>Said it would not be any more labor and just his cost of the part. Bet not
>many if any dealers would do that.
>
>
Actually quite a few would. I know mine did. It's the only way to keep
customers. Treet them like GOLD. The car salesman sells a customer
his first car from the dealership. The service department sells him
the next - and the next - if there is a next.

Danny D. wrote:
> Paintedcow wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:55 -0600:
>
>> Getting tires off and on rims is not easy without a "tire
>> machine" and I still would not be able to balance them....
>
> It's very easy to mount and unmount "medium" profile (50 series)
> tires on BBS aluminum rims using the Harbor Freight tool.
>
> I have done SUV tires (70 series) too, which are much harder
> but still doable.
>
> I wouldn't go any bigger than 17 inch diameter though, nor
> any taller than 70 series (and I prefer my 50 series as the
> shorter and thinner the sidewall, the easier it is).
>
> The aluminum rims don't get scratched at all (a bit of red
> paint, that's it) and the steel rims are actually more of
> a pain because in my experience, they're harder to balance
> and the weights go on differently (bang on edge versus stick
> on the inside).
>
> All you need are three things, none of which are expensive:
> 1. Compressor (most already have that)
> 2. Tire Changing Tool (Harbor Freight has them on sale periodically)
> 3. Static Wheel Balancer (same as above, costs more than the changer)
>
> My first 5 wheel replacement job payed for all the tools as the
> price for the tools and weights was almost exactly what it would
> have cost for a shop to mount and balance the five tires I had
> shipped to my house from Tire Rack.
>
Obviously you only do a static balancing. Is that good enough for your
driving?

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 18:40:21 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 13:13:37 -0500:
>
>> Company would not honor warranty since I did not return to where I
>> bought them but the shop where I bought them reimbursed me.
>
>I make every mistake you can make, and I've made that buying tires
>by warranty mistake also. In addition, I bought the useless extended
>warranty.
>
>Once I tried to return a tire I thought wore too early and the tire
>under warranty would cost MORE than a tire NOT under warranty because
>I had to have THEM do it, and I had to pay for the mounting and
>balancing and I originally bought it on sale where it was no longer
>on sale (although I could get it from Tire Rack cheaper!).
>
>End result, even *with* the pro-rated warranty, the replacement tire
>under warranty cost more than that same tire (same exact brand and
>model!) not on warranty!
>
>Likewise, I have paid for the extended warranty, which, when you bring
>a tire back, they told me that alignment wasn't covered (which may
>be true - but then why did I bother). So I never buy extended or
>by warranty ever again.
>
>Also, I used to get tires at Costco for the "free" mounting and
>balancing and repair, but, unfortunately, the *wait* at Costco is
>forever (hours and hours) so it's not worth it unless you drop it
>off and come back (which isn't convenient for me).
>
>So, I forgo all warranties and just buy tires from Tire Rack by
>performance and price and fit. And I mount them myself now that
>Harbor Freight sells that nice red mounting kit. And I balance
>them statically, very carefully - and since they have expensive
>rims, they're almost perfect and don't vibrate at all. Who knew
>that dynamic balancing was a waste? I didn't. Until I tried the
>static balancing.
>
>Which so far works perfectly for me.
I've ballanced many a tire dynamically that was in perfect static
ballance but caused severe high speed shimmy. I've even balanced tires
that had been "road force balanced and still shook - and gotten rid of
the shake. I used to balance within 1/8 ounce and could get a V rated
tire dead smooth to over 140MPH.

Try that with a bubble ballancer. Particualarly on something like a
2555/50 rire.