Soliciting Opinions

On 05/12/2011 06:31 PM, hls wrote:
>
> "Tegger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Adrian" > wrote in news:iqhfsd$9h4> 350# impact
>> wrench. Heat. Drill. In that order.
>>
>> I've found that penetrating oils are just about useless.
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>
> I disagree. A good penetrating oil can help a lot. Heat
> helps but you dont want to force it.
>
> I have partially cut through a nut with a Dremel or with a
> drill bit, and then heat, penetrating oil, etc. Seldom will
> you find a situation that wont respond.
>
> But if you get gorilla fisted, you can cause yourself a ton
> of problems.

as usual, you're not talking from experience. tegger is correct - an
impact wrench will quickly and without damage remove nuts hand tools
won't touch. no need to monkey about with potions and lotions.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 05/12/2011 01:28 PM, Adrian wrote:
> I'd like to hear others opinions on techniques, or tried and true
> methods, for removing nuts from rusted/corroded bolts/studs.

what tegger says - impact, heat, drill, in that order. and if the
impact won't shift right away, keep blasting away until it does. some
can take up to a minute of solid battering, but they'll still shift in
the end.

try to avoid heat if you can - it can damage the hardness of fasteners
and surrounding areas - significant problems down the road.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On Thu, 12 May 2011 14:10:20 -0700, N8N wrote:

> On May 12, 4:28Â*pm, "Adrian" > wrote:
>> I'd like to hear others opinions on techniques, or tried and true
>> methods, for removing nuts from rusted/corroded bolts/studs.
>
> I've got a few...
>
> 1) penetrating oil. WD-40 ain't ****. Use a GOOD penetrating oil like
> PB Blast'r, Kroil, or Wuerth Rost Off.
>
> 2) heat. If you don't have anything in the area, pretty much nothing
> beats getting it hot with an oxyacetylene torch. Oxy-MAPP works too if
> you don't have a properly equipped workshop. Plain MAPP or propane is
> worth a try if nothing else is handy. Also, melting some candle wax
> (from a cheap, non-dripless candle) into the threads is surprisingly
> helpful. Also if you heat up a nut and then slap an ice cube on the
> stud to shock it that can help too.
>
> 3) Don't even try to use a 12-point box wrench or socket. 6-point tools
> only.
>
> 4) if there's a long threaded stud or bolt that the nut has to thread
> off of, it can be helpful to run a die over them and/or wire brush them
> clean before starting, so once you have the nut busted loose you're not
> having to force it over rusted threads. If you use a die, after you run
> it on once, flip it over and run it right up to the nut with the
> non-tapered side facing the nut.
>
> 5) when all else fails, use a nut splitter and/or consider the bolt
> sacrificial and cut the whole mess off and replace hardware.
>
> 6) when reassembling, use anti-sleaze paste on everything. Every time.
> The next owner will thank you.

All that, and:

_Careful_ application of an impact wrench, in combination with all of the
above. Your aim isn't to twist the bolt off, but to break the rust if
you can. If you don't have an impact wrench, sometimes it helps to just
give the nut -- or even the bolt -- a few good whacks.

Often repeated heating/cooling cycles will help -- don't give up if the
first try doesn't do the job.

Keep in mind that when a couple of parts are rusted together, once you
get that bond broken you're often home free, but before you do things can
seem hopeless indeed. Perseverance pays off.

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On May 12, 9:29*pm, "hls" > wrote:
> "g" > wrote in message news:c7f0cfd4-Pb blaster is said to
>
> penetrate, but I would have to run a test on
> what dissolves rust best
>
> Greg
>
> ***
> I dont think any of them "dissolve" rust very well but some
> of them probably disperse the rust deposits better than other.
>
> WD-40 is a decent lubricant but it really isnt a rust dispersant.
>
> There are a number of penetrating oils at the FLAPS that
> will work. *Spray them on, wait, heat, and the apply reasonable torque... If
> it doesnt come off easily, then retreat
> and go easy.
>
> You dont need to break off a stud. or ruin threads.

Phosphoric acid can dissolve rust. I've successfully loosened a stuck
nut (holding an emblem that I wanted to purchase onto a heavy cast
metal Studebaker Hawk grill that I didn't at a swap meet) by dripping
Coca-Cola onto it and letting it sit a few minutes.

nate

hls > wrote:
>I dont think any of them "dissolve" rust very well but some
>of them probably disperse the rust deposits better than other.

I have liked PB Blaster and Kroil both. They aren't miraculous but they
are better than nothing.

>WD-40 is a decent lubricant but it really isnt a rust dispersant.

No, it's not even a decent lubricant. It's a good water displacement agent.
Good for spraying in your distributor if it gets wet in there. Not so good
for anything else.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On May 12, 4:28*pm, "Adrian" > wrote:
> I'd like to hear others opinions on techniques, or tried and true
> methods, for removing nuts from rusted/corroded bolts/studs.

I sprayed over a number of days, a Broken bolt in an engine. Well
after spending many hours using various bits, finally did the job
working at odd angles around components on the engine. Was able to
drill and rethread for a new stud. Spraying was useless. I forgot to
mention I broke the easy out which Is very hard metal.
This all was on the inner exaust manifold of my old 280z.

Greg

On May 13, 10:45*am, g > wrote:
> On May 12, 4:28*pm, "Adrian" > wrote:
>
> > I'd like to hear others opinions on techniques, or tried and true
> > methods, for removing nuts from rusted/corroded bolts/studs.
>
> I sprayed over a number of days, a Broken bolt in an engine. Well
> after spending many hours using various bits, finally did the job
> working at odd angles around components on the engine. Was able to
> drill and rethread for a new stud. Spraying was useless. I forgot to
> mention I broke the easy out which Is very hard metal.
> This all was on the inner exaust manifold of my old 280z.
>
> Greg

I specifically did not mention EZ-outs because I have not ever had
much luck with them and as you discovered drilling an EZ-out is way
more difficult than just drilling the broken bolt in the first place.

If you have a snapped bolt that is not rusted in place but just
snapped because of overtorquing or vibration, I have had good luck
removing them with a small diameter piece of hardened steel shaft
ground to a point, and trying to "walk" the bolt out with my homemade
punch and a hammer to the point where I can either grab it with vice
grips or slot it with a hacksaw and use a straight blade screwdriver.
A left hand drill bit and EZ-out might also work in that application
but would take longer and require more skill.

Additionally (this thread reminds me of all the tools I've used in the
past) the Craftsman Bolt-Outs do work well, and also whatever those
things are called that you use in a reversible drill to try to "catch"
stripped Phillips screw heads. (used those to remove a handrail that
was screwed to a wall with very old, hard studs - got all but one
screw out, I was able to use vice grips on that one once the tool
drilled through the screw head and I removed the bracket.)

nate

On Fri, 13 May 2011 08:30:15 -0700 (PDT), N8N >
wrote:

>On May 13, 10:45Â*am, g > wrote:
>> On May 12, 4:28Â*pm, "Adrian" > wrote:
>>
>> > I'd like to hear others opinions on techniques, or tried and true
>> > methods, for removing nuts from rusted/corroded bolts/studs.
>>
>> I sprayed over a number of days, a Broken bolt in an engine. Well
>> after spending many hours using various bits, finally did the job
>> working at odd angles around components on the engine. Was able to
>> drill and rethread for a new stud. Spraying was useless. I forgot to
>> mention I broke the easy out which Is very hard metal.
>> This all was on the inner exaust manifold of my old 280z.
>>
>> Greg
>
>I specifically did not mention EZ-outs because I have not ever had
>much luck with them and as you discovered drilling an EZ-out is way
>more difficult than just drilling the broken bolt in the first place.
>

A round nose and diamond point chisel comes in handy after you've
drilled most the bolt away. You'll barely nick the threads if you're
careful.
I haven't had much luck with EZ-outs either.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" > wrote in message

> I haven't had much luck with EZ-outs either.
>
> --Vic

I hate to mess with them, and wont unless there is no other
choice. If you break a bolt trying to remove it with a wrench,
the chance you can get an EZ out to remove it is intuitively
pretty small.

I understand there are some electromachining techniques that
can get them or the bolt out without damaging anything but
I have never used them nor seen them in use.

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> hls > wrote:
>>I dont think any of them "dissolve" rust very well but some
>>of them probably disperse the rust deposits better than other.
>
> I have liked PB Blaster and Kroil both. They aren't miraculous but they
> are better than nothing.
>
>>WD-40 is a decent lubricant but it really isnt a rust dispersant.
>
> No, it's not even a decent lubricant. It's a good water displacement
> agent.
> Good for spraying in your distributor if it gets wet in there. Not so
> good
> for anything else.
> --scott
> --

Well, we will disagree a little on this.. WD-40 is not a
great lubricant but it is often helpful, as in locks,
etc. It doesnt last very long.

An old boss of mine had his own formula for penetrating
solution for aluminum...He dissolved iodine crystals in
vinegar or acetic acid. Aluminum can be a bear to work
on. Might be worth a try if you ever need something like
this.