How Not To Save Detroit

In article >,
krp > wrote:
>
> Yeah they pretty much did it with picks and shovels. IF we did it the
>same way - CONGRESS MIGHT - it'd cost hundreds of trillions. However with
>modern tunnel boring machines it's pretty efficient.

Ever heard of a modern project called "The Big Dig"?
--
It's times like these which make me glad my bank is Dial-a-Mattress

"Matthew Russotto" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Brent > wrote:
>>On 2009-06-17, krp > wrote:
>>>
>>>> It appears you are unfamiliar with the geology of both cities. Chicago
>>>> was built on a swamp. NYC is on islands. This should give you a good
>>>> idea of what the problem with tunnels is. That problem doesn't sleep.
>>>
>>> So it is IMPOSSIBLE for subways to exist in Chicago and New York?
>>
>>WTF is your major malfunction? Are you stupid? Unable to read? or just a
>>jackass?
>
> I'll split my bet between (a) and (c).
> --
> It's times like these which make me glad my bank is Dial-a-Mattress

You can build a tunnel damn near anywhere. Yes, it costs money as you
go deeper, but doesnt make a **** if it is under a swamp or a mountain.
It is ***money***that is the driver

HLS > wrote:
>You can build a tunnel damn near anywhere. Yes, it costs money as you
>go deeper, but doesnt make a **** if it is under a swamp or a mountain.
>It is ***money***that is the driver

And getting Americans to spend money for infrastructure is damn near
impossible.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"HLS" > wrote in message
...

>>>>> It appears you are unfamiliar with the geology of both cities. Chicago
>>>>> was built on a swamp. NYC is on islands. This should give you a good
>>>>> idea of what the problem with tunnels is. That problem doesn't sleep.
>>>>
>>>> So it is IMPOSSIBLE for subways to exist in Chicago and New York?
>>>
>>>WTF is your major malfunction? Are you stupid? Unable to read? or just a
>>>jackass?
>>
>> I'll split my bet between (a) and (c).
>> --
>> It's times like these which make me glad my bank is Dial-a-Mattress

> You can build a tunnel damn near anywhere. Yes, it costs money as you
> go deeper, but doesnt make a **** if it is under a swamp or a mountain.
> It is ***money***that is the driver


Well there ARE planes a wise man doesn't want to build a subway. I don't
think building a subway of the largest geological FAULT on the planet (Los
Angeles) is a real bright idea. I could be wrong, but I see some
possibilities of problems. But the last time I checked, there were not too
many SWAMPS between New York and Los Angeles. I could be wrong, it could ALL
be swampland, it's just that I have never seen THOSE swamps. I've seen a
****load of them down here in Florida and in Georgia and Louisiana. Just not
a whole hell of a lot of them in Utah, Colorado or Nevada. Did I happen to
miss the GREAT Sioux swamp? Do they have "gators" in them swamps in Nevadie?
Funny thing, they managed to build tunnels (3) under the English Channel.

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> HLS > wrote:
>>You can build a tunnel damn near anywhere. Yes, it costs money as you
>>go deeper, but doesnt make a **** if it is under a swamp or a mountain.
>>It is ***money***that is the driver
>
> And getting Americans to spend money for infrastructure is damn near
> impossible.


That's probably the most true and intelligent contribution to the
conversation so far. It *could* be done but probably never will be. This is
NOWHERE NEAR the same nation it was in 1880. I don't mean technology. The
U.S. of 1880 was a nation of risk takers, of pioneers. We just are NOT those
people any more.

"Matthew Russotto" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> krp > wrote:
>>
>> Yeah they pretty much did it with picks and shovels. IF we did it the
>>same way - CONGRESS MIGHT - it'd cost hundreds of trillions. However with
>>modern tunnel boring machines it's pretty efficient.
>
> Ever heard of a modern project called "The Big Dig"?


Ever hear of Barney Frank? Ever hear of CORRUPTION in Boston? How long
has the runway extension for Logan airport been going on?

In article >,
krp > wrote:
>
>"Matthew Russotto" > wrote in message
et...
>> In article >,
>> krp > wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah they pretty much did it with picks and shovels. IF we did it the
>>>same way - CONGRESS MIGHT - it'd cost hundreds of trillions. However with
>>>modern tunnel boring machines it's pretty efficient.
>>
>> Ever heard of a modern project called "The Big Dig"?
>
> Ever hear of Barney Frank? Ever hear of CORRUPTION in Boston? How long
>has the runway extension for Logan airport been going on?

The main problem isn't corruption, so much as the fact that everybody wants to
do it as cheaply as possible. And trying to do things cheaply winds up
costing a lot more money in the long run.

When you have a project that goes on for years and years, it's easy for
money to just start disappearing. When you come in, do it quickly with
as large a crew as possible, and get out fast, it's harder for corruption to
become endemic because there's no time for it.

When you have people who have a job for life on a project, they aren't going
to be motivated to do the job quickly or well.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...

> The main problem isn't corruption, so much as the fact that everybody
> wants to
> do it as cheaply as possible. And trying to do things cheaply winds up
> costing a lot more money in the long run.


Well, sometimes they spend a ton of money doing a project, but then get a
shoddy
product. I refer to some of the construction of nuclear power plants,
buildings,
bridges, etc, where the contractor either underbid or underperformed, and
made
some dangerous but expensive structures.

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...


>>>> Yeah they pretty much did it with picks and shovels. IF we did it
>>>> the
>>>>same way - CONGRESS MIGHT - it'd cost hundreds of trillions. However
>>>>with
>>>>modern tunnel boring machines it's pretty efficient.
>>>
>>> Ever heard of a modern project called "The Big Dig"?
>>
>> Ever hear of Barney Frank? Ever hear of CORRUPTION in Boston? How long
>>has the runway extension for Logan airport been going on?

> The main problem isn't corruption, so much as the fact that everybody
> wants to
> do it as cheaply as possible. And trying to do things cheaply winds up
> costing a lot more money in the long run.

Sorry Scott - if I had never been to Massachusetts I'd believe you. But
BOSTON is even more crooked than Chicago. It's MACHINE politics. There is so
much GRAFT - so many public officials on the "Take" that it is silly.

> When you have a project that goes on for years and years, it's easy for
> money to just start disappearing. When you come in, do it quickly with
> as large a crew as possible, and get out fast, it's harder for corruption
> to
> become endemic because there's no time for it.

It's politicians and Union officials getting FILTHY RICH.

> When you have people who have a job for life on a project, they aren't
> going
> to be motivated to do the job quickly or well.

Now when pockets are lined. It's one hell of a CASH COW!

In article >,
krp > wrote:
>
>"Matthew Russotto" > wrote in message
et...
>> In article >,
>> krp > wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah they pretty much did it with picks and shovels. IF we did it the
>>>same way - CONGRESS MIGHT - it'd cost hundreds of trillions. However with
>>>modern tunnel boring machines it's pretty efficient.
>>
>> Ever heard of a modern project called "The Big Dig"?
>
>
> Ever hear of Barney Frank? Ever hear of CORRUPTION in Boston? How long
>has the runway extension for Logan airport been going on?

So? The same factors would apply to any such project.

--
It's times like these which make me glad my bank is Dial-a-Mattress