Negotiating with a dealer

Hi all--

I will probably buy a BMW 3 series later this year. I have been doing my
homework on the Internet and visited a dealer a couple of times.
Exchanged some e-mails with the dealer in the next town over.

I think I'm going to want an all-wheel-drive model. My question is, is
it ever possible to order a car (not buy off the lot) and retain any
ability to negotiate a good price? I'm pretty patient, but I doubt
whether I will have many chances to find close to what I want on a lot.

This is a pretty basic question, but I haven't seen it addressed on the
car buying sites. I have just sort of assumed that you can only bargain
well if you can convince them that you will walk away if you don't get a
reasonable deal. (Do you have to pay something down when ordering a car,
by the way?)

You might be interested to know that when I requested one of those
competitive quotes over the Internet (I think this one was from Kelly),
the BMW dealer in a large city in TX quoted me exactly MSRP. Do they
think people are dumb, or is an 06 Bimmer hot enough that it's
non-negotiable right now?

Thanks for any comments,

Amanda

"Amanda Robin" > wrote
> I will probably buy a BMW 3 series later this year. I have been doing my
> homework on the Internet and visited a dealer a couple of times.
> Exchanged some e-mails with the dealer in the next town over.
>
> I think I'm going to want an all-wheel-drive model. My question is, is
> it ever possible to order a car (not buy off the lot) and retain any
> ability to negotiate a good price? I'm pretty patient, but I doubt
> whether I will have many chances to find close to what I want on a lot.

Well, there are two or three things you need to know.
1) AFAIK, the new 3-series (E90) is currently not available with AWD,
although you may be able to get the previous model (E46) still.
2) You're probably not going to get much price movement on the
new model - from BMW or any other manufacturer for that matter.
If you do, look for a price about 1/2 way between MSRP and invoice;
usually $1000-$2000. Note that BMW dealers usually make their cut
on options; there is less room in the markup than other makes.
3) You can get deals on ordered cars - I did. I have one of the
very few 330xi's without a sunroof in the US; probably fewer than 100.
4) BMW does allow you to order options that aren't available in
the US brochure; like cloth seats, no sunroof (the E90 in the US
comes with it standard), etc. However, you have to find a dealer
who is willing to do the extra work...

Floyd

"fbloogyudsr" > wrote in message
...
> "Amanda Robin" > wrote
>> I will probably buy a BMW 3 series later this year. I have been doing my
>> homework on the Internet and visited a dealer a couple of times.
>> Exchanged some e-mails with the dealer in the next town over.
>>
>> I think I'm going to want an all-wheel-drive model. My question is, is it
>> ever possible to order a car (not buy off the lot) and retain any ability
>> to negotiate a good price? I'm pretty patient, but I doubt whether I will
>> have many chances to find close to what I want on a lot.
>
> Well, there are two or three things you need to know.
> 1) AFAIK, the new 3-series (E90) is currently not available with AWD,
> although you may be able to get the previous model (E46) still.
> 2) You're probably not going to get much price movement on the
> new model - from BMW or any other manufacturer for that matter.
> If you do, look for a price about 1/2 way between MSRP and invoice;
> usually $1000-$2000. Note that BMW dealers usually make their cut
> on options; there is less room in the markup than other makes.
> 3) You can get deals on ordered cars - I did. I have one of the
> very few 330xi's without a sunroof in the US; probably fewer than 100.


Why did you special order a car without a sunroof?

This feature has value, even if you don't use it. Frankly, I can't imagine
not using it, even if all one does is tilt the rear up for ventilation.





> 4) BMW does allow you to order options that aren't available in
> the US brochure; like cloth seats, no sunroof (the E90 in the US
> comes with it standard), etc. However, you have to find a dealer
> who is willing to do the extra work...
>
> Floyd

"J Strickland" wrote
>
> Why did you special order a car without a sunroof?

I deliberatly bought an A4 without it. I was going to order one like that,
but then the dealer was able to locate a car with the exact options I needed
(pretty much every other option minus sunroof) at another dealer lot.

I had an Accord before, with a sunroof, and never used it, so that's why I
didn't want it. There are also issues sometimes with the sunroof acting up
on its own and/or leaking water - didn't need any of that either. Finally,
you get more headroom space without a sunroof.

Maybe the issues I mentioned do not pertain to BMW, but those were my
reasons.

Pete

I concur with you about a sunroof. I think they are a monumental waste of
money, invite eventual leaks, and steal headroom.

Only reason to have one is so the passenger can tilt their seat back and
look at the clouds go by.

They are absolutely no substitute for a convertible. Not even remotely
close.


"Pete" > wrote in message
...
>
> "J Strickland" wrote
>>
>> Why did you special order a car without a sunroof?
>
> I deliberatly bought an A4 without it. I was going to order one like
> that, but then the dealer was able to locate a car with the exact options
> I needed (pretty much every other option minus sunroof) at another dealer
> lot.
>
> I had an Accord before, with a sunroof, and never used it, so that's why I
> didn't want it. There are also issues sometimes with the sunroof acting
> up on its own and/or leaking water - didn't need any of that either.
> Finally, you get more headroom space without a sunroof.
>
> Maybe the issues I mentioned do not pertain to BMW, but those were my
> reasons.
>
> Pete
>
>

"GRL" > wrote in message
...
>I concur with you about a sunroof. I think they are a monumental waste of
>money, invite eventual leaks, and steal headroom.
>
> Only reason to have one is so the passenger can tilt their seat back and
> look at the clouds go by.
>
> They are absolutely no substitute for a convertible. Not even remotely
> close.

Opinions vary. I use mine frequently and year round. Never had a leak or
mechanical failure with 3 different cars over 11 years.

Admittedly not a substitute for a convertible nor meant to be.

R / John

>Why did you special order a car without a sunroof?
>
>This feature has value, even if you don't use it. Frankly, I can't imagine
>not using it, even if all one does is tilt the rear up for ventilation.

Biggest reason for me would be the lack of headroom in cars so equiped. I am
fairly tall, but EXTREMELY long in the torso - I flat don't fit comfortably
in most European cars with sunroofs. Getting rid of the sunroof gives an extra
1-2" of headroom. Which is too bad as I would rather have one!

Kevin Rhodes
Westbrook, Maine
91 318is - no sunroof - with headroom
00 Saab 9-5 - with sunroof, without headroom
74 Triumph Spitfire - infinite headroom :-)

"Kevin Rhodes" > wrote
>>Why did you special order a car without a sunroof?
>>
>>This feature has value, even if you don't use it. Frankly, I can't imagine
>>not using it, even if all one does is tilt the rear up for ventilation.
>
> Biggest reason for me would be the lack of headroom in cars so equiped. I
> am
> fairly tall, but EXTREMELY long in the torso - I flat don't fit
> comfortably
> in most European cars with sunroofs. Getting rid of the sunroof gives an
> extra
> 1-2" of headroom. Which is too bad as I would rather have one!

Exactly. Almost 2" headroom for us long-torso'd people is important.
Also, I live in Seattle; the car spends much time in the mts. in snow,
and I have to use a/c year-round to clear the fog from the windows anyway.
It's also about 10 lbs lighter.

Floyd

Yo Kevin, the head room in an E46 or E90 is exactly the same with and
without sunroof.




"Kevin Rhodes" > wrote in message
...
>
>>Why did you special order a car without a sunroof?
>>
>>This feature has value, even if you don't use it. Frankly, I can't imagine
>>not using it, even if all one does is tilt the rear up for ventilation.
>
> Biggest reason for me would be the lack of headroom in cars so equiped. I
> am
> fairly tall, but EXTREMELY long in the torso - I flat don't fit
> comfortably
> in most European cars with sunroofs. Getting rid of the sunroof gives an
> extra
> 1-2" of headroom. Which is too bad as I would rather have one!
>
> Kevin Rhodes
> Westbrook, Maine
> 91 318is - no sunroof - with headroom
> 00 Saab 9-5 - with sunroof, without headroom
> 74 Triumph Spitfire - infinite headroom :-)

"330xi" > wrote
> Yo Kevin, the head room in an E46 or E90 is exactly the same with and
> without sunroof.
>
>
>

Wrong. I think you should measure yours, then come to Seattle
and measure mine.

FloydR '01 330xi