Tyres: Best foot forward? or back?

Hi Guys,
Have seen quite a lot of good info 'bout tyres on this group. And a
few times it's been mentioned that on FWD cars, it's best to have the
better pair of tyres at the rear.
Firstly, is that the general opinion of the Alfisti on this group?
Second, anybody got an idea why this is so?

Reason I ask:
I've always thought the opposite was true i.e. the better pair should
go in front cause:
a. in daily driving, your need for traction/grip is greatest when you
have to slam your brakes in an emergency - and that requires most grip
in the front...otherwise you'll have less braking force before your
ABS kicks in
b. it's harder to correct a front wheel skid than a rear wheel skid =>
put the "skid prone" tyres at the back.

BC
156 Seles

> From: (Buzzardous Cross)
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Newsgroups: alt.autos.alfa-romeo
> Date: 12 Aug 2004 06:58:22 -0700
> Subject: Tyres: Best foot forward? or back?
>
> Hi Guys,
> Have seen quite a lot of good info 'bout tyres on this group. And a
> few times it's been mentioned that on FWD cars, it's best to have the
> better pair of tyres at the rear.
> Firstly, is that the general opinion of the Alfisti on this group?
> Second, anybody got an idea why this is so?
>
> Reason I ask:
> I've always thought the opposite was true i.e. the better pair should
> go in front cause:
> a. in daily driving, your need for traction/grip is greatest when you
> have to slam your brakes in an emergency - and that requires most grip
> in the front...otherwise you'll have less braking force before your
> ABS kicks in
> b. it's harder to correct a front wheel skid than a rear wheel skid =>
> put the "skid prone" tyres at the back.
>
> BC
> 156 Seles

Common thought is that it is better to have the better tyres on the back of
a front wheel drive car as you have no control over the back wheels and so
you want them to be less likely to skid.

Personally, however I prefer the better tyres on the front. For me, the
understeer on the front with bad tyres makes driving more difficult and
dangerous. Also, if the front wheels are the only wheels you have control
over, I'd rather the grip was on them.

It seems to be something people are fairly divided on, although most agree
with the 'correct' theory which is good tyres on the back. I, however,
disagree.

"Tom Boltwood" > schreef in bericht
...
>
>
> It seems to be something people are fairly divided on, although most agree
> with the 'correct' theory which is good tyres on the back. I, however,
> disagree.
>

Reading all the posts back (including my own): Isn't the best way out of
this discussion to just see to it that all 4 tyres are 100% o.k. (that's
over 4mm profile depth)
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)

Alfistagj wrote:

>
> "Tom Boltwood" > schreef in bericht
> ...
>>
>>
>> It seems to be something people are fairly divided on, although most
>> agree with the 'correct' theory which is good tyres on the back. I,
>> however, disagree.
>>
>
> Reading all the posts back (including my own): Isn't the best way out of
> this discussion to just see to it that all 4 tyres are 100% o.k. (that's
> over 4mm profile depth)

But they way I drive means the fronts on the Sprint don't keep 4mm for very
long
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

"Alfistagj" > wrote in message news:<TkQSc.5453$vH5.329@amstwist00>...
> Reading all the posts back (including my own): Isn't the best way out of
> this discussion to just see to it that all 4 tyres are 100% o.k. (that's
> over 4mm profile depth)

Yes, that's kinda clear. If you can, have the best everywhere...but in
practice you know how it goes...
Spend good dosh on a set of 4 new tyres.
Then the front ones go real fast
Then you pick up a nail on the sidewall on one of the fronts.
Then you go, "Phew, at least the were almost gone".
Then you decide to buy 2 new tyres (cause the rears are still pretty
good)

Now you scratch your head wondering, do these go front or rear?!!

The problem is compounded by the fact that I find tyre rotation a
pain...especially in a car as sensitive as an Alfa...a seemingly
innocent rotation to achieve uniform wear can unsettle the car's great
handling and have you go round in circles wondering what's caused
it...
So now I don't rotate anymore...

Guess the solution is more dosh (4 new tyres) or live with a
compromise! Ouch.

BC

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:54:27 +0100, Tom Boltwood >
wrote:

<Snip>
>For me, the
>understeer on the front with bad tyres makes driving more difficult and
>dangerous.

Understeer? What's that then? Bad tyres on an Alfa is a
waste..surely?!

> Also, if the front wheels are the only wheels you have control
>over,

Hmmm..bad tyres are bad no matter where you put them.

I seem to be able to control quite a bit of my car via my rear tyres.
There's always the handbrake (rarely used and unsubtle) or,
particularly in cornering, you can use the accelerator and brakes to
alter the balance of the car by 'moving the weight' on the back so
discouraging or encouraging the rear to drift, or for that matter the
front.

> I'd rather the grip was on them.

!

>It seems to be something people are fairly divided on, although most agree
>with the 'correct' theory which is good tyres on the back. I, however,
>disagree.

I'm with the majority on this one. Of utmost importance when driving a
road car on the road is safety and predictability. In a disaster, when
you've (temporarily?) lost control, there can be nobody out there that
seriously suggests that Joe Average has a car setup that oversteers
rather than understeers! Most typical drivers cannot correct oversteer
properly..most typical drivers are 'used' to understeer however. The
link between over and under steer and tyres is well explained
elsewhere.

Car control experts may choose an alternate setup to the majority
opinion but it is for the few not the many.

YMMV

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)

Don't want to be using the handbrake on my 2002 156 - it acts on the front
wheels!!


"Zathras" > wrote in message
news
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:54:27 +0100, Tom Boltwood >
> wrote:
>
> <Snip>
> >For me, the
> >understeer on the front with bad tyres makes driving more difficult and
> >dangerous.
>
> Understeer? What's that then? Bad tyres on an Alfa is a
> waste..surely?!
>
> > Also, if the front wheels are the only wheels you have control
> >over,
>
> Hmmm..bad tyres are bad no matter where you put them.
>
> I seem to be able to control quite a bit of my car via my rear tyres.
> There's always the handbrake (rarely used and unsubtle) or,
> particularly in cornering, you can use the accelerator and brakes to
> alter the balance of the car by 'moving the weight' on the back so
> discouraging or encouraging the rear to drift, or for that matter the
> front.
>
> > I'd rather the grip was on them.
>
> !
>
> >It seems to be something people are fairly divided on, although most
agree
> >with the 'correct' theory which is good tyres on the back. I, however,
> >disagree.
>
> I'm with the majority on this one. Of utmost importance when driving a
> road car on the road is safety and predictability. In a disaster, when
> you've (temporarily?) lost control, there can be nobody out there that
> seriously suggests that Joe Average has a car setup that oversteers
> rather than understeers! Most typical drivers cannot correct oversteer
> properly..most typical drivers are 'used' to understeer however. The
> link between over and under steer and tyres is well explained
> elsewhere.
>
> Car control experts may choose an alternate setup to the majority
> opinion but it is for the few not the many.
>
> YMMV
>
> --
> Z
> Scotland
> Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
> 'Oil' be seeing you..
> (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)

"Gareth Tuckwell" > schreef in bericht
...
> Don't want to be using the handbrake on my 2002 156 - it acts on the front
> wheels!!
>

Gareth,
Never sell your 156.
It's unique and will make a lot of money!
You're the only front hand brake 156 I know of!
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)

I don't think it will make much money when I sell it (not planning to!) - as
far as I know, they all work this way! Maybe its a UK thing, or perhaps a
2002+ thing?

I have the 2002 156 2.0JTS. Its the old exterior and new interior (best mix
I think) if that helps. Also when you pull on the handbrake at any speed at
all (even a crawl) the on-board computer beeps loudly and says "oil pressure
low or handbrake on"

The handbrake on my father's Citroen Xantia also acts on the front wheels.

These are the only two models of car I have ever encountered with this brake
system.


"Alfistagj" > wrote in message
news:K56Uc.5781$vH5.4189@amstwist00...
>
> "Gareth Tuckwell" > schreef in bericht
> ...
> > Don't want to be using the handbrake on my 2002 156 - it acts on the
front
> > wheels!!
> >
>
> Gareth,
> Never sell your 156.
> It's unique and will make a lot of money!
> You're the only front hand brake 156 I know of!
> --
> Ciao from Holland
> AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
> Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
> Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)
>
>
>

"Buzzardous Cross" > schreef in bericht
om...
> Hi Guys,
> Have seen quite a lot of good info 'bout tyres on this group. And a
> few times it's been mentioned that on FWD cars, it's best to have the
> better pair of tyres at the rear.
> Firstly, is that the general opinion of the Alfisti on this group?

From earlier discussions: NO

> Second, anybody got an idea why this is so?
>

Yes

> Reason I ask:
> I've always thought the opposite was true i.e. the better pair should
> go in front cause:
> a. in daily driving, your need for traction/grip is greatest when you
> have to slam your brakes in an emergency - and that requires most grip
> in the front...otherwise you'll have less braking force before your
> ABS kicks in
> b. it's harder to correct a front wheel skid than a rear wheel skid =>
> put the "skid prone" tyres at the back.
>
> BC
> 156 Seles

In principle you are right, but that is also the reason why you are wrong.
That traction is important for braking as well as accelerating is very true,
but slips normally don't occur during normal accelerating or braking, but
when driving at a more or less constant speed in a curve or in aquaplaning
or when /after you switch lanes etc.

Most important reason is active safety for the "normal"driver and under
normal circumstances..
It's not the fact that it's harder or not to correct a front or rear slip,
but the fact that you will have a lot more time to notice a front slip than
a back slip.
Assuming you are driving forward (!), when you get a front slip, the front
of the car will be in front of you; you can see it coming and have time to
do things to avoid it.
The first moment you notice a rear wheel slip is when you see the rear of
the car in front of you, leaving no more time to correct; you are back front
all ready.
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)