Ford voltage leak is like mystery novel. Please read.

A couple months ago my '89 Thunderbird wouldn't start. So it was towed
to
the dealership and was "fixed" by replacing the starter. I was told
that everything
else was fine.

Two weeks later the car won't start...replaced the firewall mounted
celinoid and
put in a fresh battery.

Two weeks later car won't start...replaced battery cables from the
starter to the
celinoid AND the celinoid to the battery (2 wires).

TODAY the car would not start...tightened the battery cables and drove
to the
autoparts store and did another electrical systems check. The test
read that
everything is fine, but the battery performance was terrible. So I
took the
battery out and had them run a diagnostic on IT. Turns out that the
battery
is fine...with over 525 cranking amps and 13 volts

MY POINT: I think that there is still something in the cars'
electrical loop
that is stealing away electricity...maybe the ignition or some wire
that is
grounding out (?) your comments are welcome. Thanks.

Umm, you forgot to mention the ground cables.... A bad ground will
cause your symptoms.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

frank wight wrote:
>
> A couple months ago my '89 Thunderbird wouldn't start. So it was towed
> to
> the dealership and was "fixed" by replacing the starter. I was told
> that everything
> else was fine.
>
> Two weeks later the car won't start...replaced the firewall mounted
> celinoid and
> put in a fresh battery.
>
> Two weeks later car won't start...replaced battery cables from the
> starter to the
> celinoid AND the celinoid to the battery (2 wires).
>
> TODAY the car would not start...tightened the battery cables and drove
> to the
> autoparts store and did another electrical systems check. The test
> read that
> everything is fine, but the battery performance was terrible. So I
> took the
> battery out and had them run a diagnostic on IT. Turns out that the
> battery
> is fine...with over 525 cranking amps and 13 volts
>
> MY POINT: I think that there is still something in the cars'
> electrical loop
> that is stealing away electricity...maybe the ignition or some wire
> that is
> grounding out (?) your comments are welcome. Thanks.

"frank wight" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> A couple months ago my '89 Thunderbird wouldn't start. So it was towed
> to
> the dealership and was "fixed" by replacing the starter. I was told
> that everything
> else was fine.
>
> Two weeks later the car won't start...replaced the firewall mounted
> celinoid and
> put in a fresh battery.
>
> Two weeks later car won't start...replaced battery cables from the
> starter to the
> celinoid AND the celinoid to the battery (2 wires).
>
> TODAY the car would not start...tightened the battery cables and drove
> to the
> autoparts store and did another electrical systems check. The test
> read that
> everything is fine, but the battery performance was terrible. So I
> took the
> battery out and had them run a diagnostic on IT. Turns out that the
> battery
> is fine...with over 525 cranking amps and 13 volts
>
> MY POINT: I think that there is still something in the cars'
> electrical loop
> that is stealing away electricity...maybe the ignition or some wire
> that is
> grounding out (?) your comments are welcome. Thanks.
>

These electrical problems can be nerve wracking.

That solenoid that you probably replaced is the switch that connects the
battery
current to the starter. It is activated by the starter switch on the
steering column.
Occasionally they go bad, but Ford solenoids are usually pretty solid parts.

The starter may, or may not, have been faulty. I suspect dealerships when
they
do this sort of thing. Clearly it did not solve your problem. Did they
really
'replace' it, or did they fiddle around with new brushes and a halfassed
overhaul.
Lots of times a starter will fail to function when the bushings (bearings)
are too loose.
The starter 'drags', and it acts just like a bad connection or low battery.
When this happens, new bushings (which should be a part of a proper
overhaul)
can solve all the problems.


Your battery terminals, cable connectors, and cable ground need to be
checked
for good connection. If they are not good, they can give you a fit.

The belts need to be tight and the alternator in good operating condition.
A bad
diode can cause you trouble, as can other internal problems. Slipping belts
will
cause you to lose charge, over time, too.

You should check for leakage current from the battery when the car is not
running and
when all systems are turned off. If the leakage current is more than 50-100
milliamperes,
you have something drawing excess current.

There are lots of things that can cause your symptoms. Usually a competent
mechanic
can fix them up pretty fast. I have the feeling that your mechanic of
choice is throwing
parts at the car rather than finding out what is wrong.

"frank wight" wrote: '89 Thunderbird

Two months ago car wouldn't start
It was towed to the dealership who replaced the starter.
Two weeks later the car wouldn't start...
Replaced the solenoid and the battery.
Two weeks later car wouldn't start...
Replaced cables from the starter to the solenoid
and solenoid to battery.
TODAY the car wouldn't start...
Tightened the battery cables and drove to the autoparts
store. Their diagnostic test shows battery is fine.
Your comments are welcome. Thanks.
__________________________________________________

It is difficult to guess at the problem with no description of
the no-start conditions (No response at all, clicking but no
cranking, slow cranking, cranking starves ignition, cranks but
does not start, tries to start but quits, smells, sounds,etc.)

Assuming that the engine actually cranks without starting, I
would probably throw a new ignition module at the intermittent
electrical problems described above.

If that didn't do it, I would make a guess at the next most
likely and least expensive direction to throw more money.
And I would keep asking help from automotive newsgroups.
While throwing parts and money, I would constantly balance
my odds of success against paying a real mechanic $150 to
diagnose the problem (plus the parts and labor to fix it.)

Please post a more complete description of the symptoms.
Someone here at rec.autos.tech probably has the answer.

Good luck.

Rodan.
________________________________________________

After reading these posts, I think I'll replace the negative cable to
the battery
since the car is 18 years old and 126,000 miles.

The parts that were thrown out: Starter, selenoid, and battery WERE
junky, so it's not like money is being wasted. I think that the
positive
battery cable I replaced was losing effectiveness because of age, heat
and oil
dripping on it.

Nobody mentioned the transmission throw-out switch that lets
the starter engage in idle or park. Do these switches wear out too?

Thanks for your comments.

Hey dillhole- where's your reply?

If it cranks it ain't the switch. The switch merely feeds power to the
relay.

My car is 16 yrs old with 250K (orginal manual tranny) and hasn't eaten
a starter yet and only one alternator. Damn **** of Jap ****.

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 03:10:07 GMT, "Rodan" > wrote:

> "frank wight" wrote: '89 Thunderbird
>
>Two months ago car wouldn't start
> It was towed to the dealership who replaced the starter.
>Two weeks later the car wouldn't start...
> Replaced the solenoid and the battery.
>Two weeks later car wouldn't start...
> Replaced cables from the starter to the solenoid
> and solenoid to battery.
>TODAY the car wouldn't start...
> Tightened the battery cables and drove to the autoparts
> store. Their diagnostic test shows battery is fine.
>Your comments are welcome. Thanks.
>_________________________________________________ _
>
>It is difficult to guess at the problem with no description of
>the no-start conditions (No response at all, clicking but no
>cranking, slow cranking, cranking starves ignition, cranks but
>does not start, tries to start but quits, smells, sounds,etc.)
>
>Assuming that the engine actually cranks without starting, I
>would probably throw a new ignition module at the intermittent
>electrical problems described above.
>
>If that didn't do it, I would make a guess at the next most
>likely and least expensive direction to throw more money.
>And I would keep asking help from automotive newsgroups.
>While throwing parts and money, I would constantly balance
>my odds of success against paying a real mechanic $150 to
>diagnose the problem (plus the parts and labor to fix it.)
>
>Please post a more complete description of the symptoms.
>Someone here at rec.autos.tech probably has the answer.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Rodan.
>_______________________________________________ _
>
When You indicate "wouldn't start", I assume you mean that the battery
does not have sufficient charge to start the engine, with this
assumption in addition to any corrective action you must have
recharged the battery or at least jumped it from another vehicles
battery each time. If I am assuming correctly so far there may be a
unknown source draining the battery when it is not running,( another
assumption is that you verified the battery had normal charge when you
shut off the car), to identify if there is a phantom load on the
battery with the car shut off, disconnect the battery cables and
measure the resistance between the two cable ends with an ohm meter
(multmeter). Normally, It should read a very high resistance, maybe
even an "open circuit" if you don't have dash clocks or other stuff
that continues to run with the key off. If there is a "phantom load"
draining the battery excessively when the key is off, it should read
100 ohms or lower, if the battery is becoming discharged overnight
usually. If you discover this condition, try removing fuses one at a
time to see if you can make the resistance go up when removing a
certain fuse. If you don't make it change resistance via the fuses,
try disconnecting the electrical leads on the alternator, again
looking for the resistance to jump to a much higher reading (probably
in the 1000 ohm or higher range). If the resistance is still low and
doesn't change with any of the disconnects thus far you might have a
chaffed wire partially shorting to the frame of the vehicle. You
might try disconnecting the power wire from the fuse block which
should eliminate all the fused assessorys and their associated wiring,
leaving you with the wiring between the battery and the alternator as
well as the ignition switch as the likely culprits. Hope this sort of
made sense, in essence you are just disconnecting devices and their
wiring from the main harness....while watching the resistance on the
meter to see when/what device affects the reading. Good luck. Joe.

Excellent post. Thanks for the procedure list