The $5,000,000 'Cuda

Check out that traditionally GM rag, "Hotrod" this month.
About a year ago I read a story about a guy who was arranging
to buy a Hemi 'Cuda out of France. The car had actually been
built and shipped to France in 1971. At the time I read the
story, the fellow had apparently paid $700,000 pounds (Brit) for
the car. Now I hear it's worth $5,000,000. In addition this
same fellow just sold a convertible Hemi 'Cuda (a lesser example)
for $3,000,000. Truly amazing. In addition, the owner of Barrett
Jackson has a Hemi 'Cuda that was originally given as a gift to
the head of British Rail, who somehow blew the engine a week
after he bought it. Jackson bought the car and spent three years
looking for the original engine, and he found it, packed in a crate
somewhere in British Rail. This car could be worth $3-$4m itself.

If I wanted to sell, B-J would be the outfit I'd want to move my car.
However, there have been some similar "finds" in the past which appear
to have been used solely to drive up prices and thereby increase B-J's
take.

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:30:39 -0400, RichA > wrote:

>Check out that traditionally GM rag, "Hotrod" this month.
>About a year ago I read a story about a guy who was arranging
>to buy a Hemi 'Cuda out of France. The car had actually been
>built and shipped to France in 1971. At the time I read the
>story, the fellow had apparently paid $700,000 pounds (Brit) for
>the car. Now I hear it's worth $5,000,000. In addition this
>same fellow just sold a convertible Hemi 'Cuda (a lesser example)
>for $3,000,000. Truly amazing. In addition, the owner of Barrett
>Jackson has a Hemi 'Cuda that was originally given as a gift to
>the head of British Rail, who somehow blew the engine a week
>after he bought it. Jackson bought the car and spent three years
>looking for the original engine, and he found it, packed in a crate
>somewhere in British Rail. This car could be worth $3-$4m itself.
>

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w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

RichA wrote:
> Check out that traditionally GM rag, "Hotrod" this month.
> About a year ago I read a story about a guy who was arranging
> to buy a Hemi 'Cuda out of France. The car had actually been
> built and shipped to France in 1971. At the time I read the
> story, the fellow had apparently paid $700,000 pounds (Brit) for
> the car. Now I hear it's worth $5,000,000. In addition this
> same fellow just sold a convertible Hemi 'Cuda (a lesser example)
> for $3,000,000. Truly amazing. In addition, the owner of Barrett
> Jackson has a Hemi 'Cuda that was originally given as a gift to
> the head of British Rail, who somehow blew the engine a week
> after he bought it. Jackson bought the car and spent three years
> looking for the original engine, and he found it, packed in a crate
> somewhere in British Rail. This car could be worth $3-$4m itself.

What is truly amazing is that anyone thinks these cars are worth
anything even remotely near these prices. Lop off two zeros and maybe,
maybe it would be worth it. Because even with say a $100K price, what
would the average, or above average, Joe do with one of these cars? Is
he really going to rack up any real mileage behind the wheel? Is he
going to be able to actually enjoy it? Doubt it on both counts. Any
amount of wear and tear and mileage would cut its value quick! So in
the end he'd end up buying it, sticking it in a garage, and staring at
it. I say he'd be better off getting a poster of a Hemi 'Cuda, and
spend his money on a performance car he can actually drive.

Patrick
'93 Cobra

Only the wealthy ones, like Leno, put miles on such cars. He drives
one of his about every day. Just saw a special on a guy who collects
very special planes. He buys 'em and flys 'em.

That's why I'd rather have a daily driver. I'm not in it for the
"investment" angle. I'm in a classic for the enjoyment of the car.

On 20 Jun 2005 20:02:36 -0700, wrote:

>RichA wrote:
>> Check out that traditionally GM rag, "Hotrod" this month.
>> About a year ago I read a story about a guy who was arranging
>> to buy a Hemi 'Cuda out of France. The car had actually been
>> built and shipped to France in 1971. At the time I read the
>> story, the fellow had apparently paid $700,000 pounds (Brit) for
>> the car. Now I hear it's worth $5,000,000. In addition this
>> same fellow just sold a convertible Hemi 'Cuda (a lesser example)
>> for $3,000,000. Truly amazing. In addition, the owner of Barrett
>> Jackson has a Hemi 'Cuda that was originally given as a gift to
>> the head of British Rail, who somehow blew the engine a week
>> after he bought it. Jackson bought the car and spent three years
>> looking for the original engine, and he found it, packed in a crate
>> somewhere in British Rail. This car could be worth $3-$4m itself.
>
>What is truly amazing is that anyone thinks these cars are worth
>anything even remotely near these prices. Lop off two zeros and maybe,
>maybe it would be worth it. Because even with say a $100K price, what
>would the average, or above average, Joe do with one of these cars? Is
>he really going to rack up any real mileage behind the wheel? Is he
>going to be able to actually enjoy it? Doubt it on both counts. Any
>amount of wear and tear and mileage would cut its value quick! So in
>the end he'd end up buying it, sticking it in a garage, and staring at
>it. I say he'd be better off getting a poster of a Hemi 'Cuda, and
>spend his money on a performance car he can actually drive.
>
>Patrick
>'93 Cobra

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:05:41 -0700, Spike > wrote:

>Only the wealthy ones, like Leno, put miles on such cars. He drives
>one of his about every day. Just saw a special on a guy who collects
>very special planes. He buys 'em and flys 'em.
>
>That's why I'd rather have a daily driver. I'm not in it for the
>"investment" angle. I'm in a classic for the enjoyment of the car.
Most of the ones you hear about are driven, the owners do like to do
that and of neccessity, they are all rich now, unless you happen to
have bought one back in the early 1990s.
-Rich

Spike wrote:
> Only the wealthy ones, like Leno, put miles on such cars. He drives
> one of his about every day. Just saw a special on a guy who collects
> very special planes. He buys 'em and flys 'em.

> That's why I'd rather have a daily driver. I'm not in it for the
> "investment" angle. I'm in a classic for the enjoyment of the car.

Spike, I understand and fully commend that. It's just these guys
throwing out huge money to buy "investment cars" are driving many like
you out of the market. And that's sad in my book.

The other thing that gets me is that the nuts and bolts of these cars
are not worth the prices they're paying for them. They were just
mass-produced factory-built cars that were meant to be driven... not
hand-built, hand-fabricated, pieces of art.

Patrick
'93 Cobra


> On 20 Jun 2005 20:02:36 -0700, wrote:

> >RichA wrote:
> >> Check out that traditionally GM rag, "Hotrod" this month.
> >> About a year ago I read a story about a guy who was arranging
> >> to buy a Hemi 'Cuda out of France. The car had actually been
> >> built and shipped to France in 1971. At the time I read the
> >> story, the fellow had apparently paid $700,000 pounds (Brit) for
> >> the car. Now I hear it's worth $5,000,000. In addition this
> >> same fellow just sold a convertible Hemi 'Cuda (a lesser example)
> >> for $3,000,000. Truly amazing. In addition, the owner of Barrett
> >> Jackson has a Hemi 'Cuda that was originally given as a gift to
> >> the head of British Rail, who somehow blew the engine a week
> >> after he bought it. Jackson bought the car and spent three years
> >> looking for the original engine, and he found it, packed in a crate
> >> somewhere in British Rail. This car could be worth $3-$4m itself.
> >
> >What is truly amazing is that anyone thinks these cars are worth
> >anything even remotely near these prices. Lop off two zeros and maybe,
> >maybe it would be worth it. Because even with say a $100K price, what
> >would the average, or above average, Joe do with one of these cars? Is
> >he really going to rack up any real mileage behind the wheel? Is he
> >going to be able to actually enjoy it? Doubt it on both counts. Any
> >amount of wear and tear and mileage would cut its value quick! So in
> >the end he'd end up buying it, sticking it in a garage, and staring at
> >it. I say he'd be better off getting a poster of a Hemi 'Cuda, and
> >spend his money on a performance car he can actually drive.
> >
> >Patrick
> >'93 Cobra
>
> Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
> 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
> Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
> Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
> w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

On 21 Jun 2005 20:03:00 -0700, wrote:

>Spike wrote:
>> Only the wealthy ones, like Leno, put miles on such cars. He drives
>> one of his about every day. Just saw a special on a guy who collects
>> very special planes. He buys 'em and flys 'em.
>
>> That's why I'd rather have a daily driver. I'm not in it for the
>> "investment" angle. I'm in a classic for the enjoyment of the car.
>
>Spike, I understand and fully commend that. It's just these guys
>throwing out huge money to buy "investment cars" are driving many like
>you out of the market. And that's sad in my book.
>
>The other thing that gets me is that the nuts and bolts of these cars
>are not worth the prices they're paying for them. They were just
>mass-produced factory-built cars that were meant to be driven... not
>hand-built, hand-fabricated, pieces of art.
>
>Patrick
>'93 Cobra
>
Agreed. Pretty much totally. That's what I meant about some inference
that B-J pushes the prices up and they go way beyond what they should
be.

Of course, that's also "supply and demand". I do agree with B-J that
the buyers today are a new breed and they are going after cars they
were raised wit; parent, brother, sister, friend had one that they
always wanted and couldn't get. Now, they have made money on stocks,
or housing, or employment and can afford the cars. It's nostalgia, and
they are willing to pay for it.

As for those "works of art"... yes, they are, and yet, when they were
hand built for individual customers or companies, they were meant to
be mobile works of art. Many or the coach cars, like Dusenberg, or
Rolls were built for people to show off on the road, and they did.

And, compared to today's robot built vehicles, that generally seem to
have come out of the same mold, the cars of the 50s and 60s, and some
70s were essentially hand built and had character.... some far better
than others. : )... even if at the time they were built to be some
secretary's car.

Yes, I hate the idea that the average guy/gal who wants one is being
priced out by those with the bucks, which doesn't seem fair. But, the
collectors who went before... the ones who collected Dusenbergs, and
Avantis and all the rest, did pretty much the same in their day.

I'm also against seeing our classics bought up by foreigners, and
hauled out of the country. Then I think... many Brits probably felt
the same about Americans buying London Bridge, etc.

One nice thing I've noticed is that there are still a large number of
cars out there that the average buyer can afford. Some are more
available than others. I turned down a great 'cuda (ala Nash Bridges)
original owner, extremely low miles, and cheap price. Needed the paint
and upholstery freshened, but no rust, etc (California car with
original plates), because I was searching for nostalgia of my younger
days in a 65 Mustang FB.

So, what is anybody to do? You can't change what is. And the cars are
worth whatever you can get somebody to pay. I've told a lot of people
that what I put into a car makes no difference. If I sell, the only
thing that will matter is the highest price I can get someone to
pay.... and that may mean a big loss for me.
Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16

wrote:

> The other thing that gets me is that the nuts and bolts of these cars
> are not worth the prices they're paying for them. They were just
> mass-produced factory-built cars that were meant to be driven... not
> hand-built, hand-fabricated, pieces of art.

Well, as the story pointed out, there are only 11 '71 Hemi Cuda 4-spd
verts, and a lot more than 11 guys who want one.

As I recall the Hot Rod story, there really is no $5 million Cuda. The
story is that the guy bought one for $2 million and someone offered him
$5 million and he refused. I have no reason to doubt the guy's word,
but the fact is that the "buyer" never actually reached the moment of
truth. The same guy who owns the "$5 million" also actually paid $3
million for his other '71 Hemi Cuda vert. So there really is a $3
million Plymouth.

The one that kills me, that you might have seen in the latest Hemmings
Muscle Machines, is the, iirc, '71 Barracuda vert that had been CLONED
into a 440-6v, going for more than $120,000. Hemi clones also sell for
that kind of dough, and higher. Now that's stupid money.

180 Out

On 22 Jun 2005 09:30:37 -0700, wrote:

wrote:
>
>> The other thing that gets me is that the nuts and bolts of these cars
>> are not worth the prices they're paying for them. They were just
>> mass-produced factory-built cars that were meant to be driven... not
>> hand-built, hand-fabricated, pieces of art.
>
>Well, as the story pointed out, there are only 11 '71 Hemi Cuda 4-spd
>verts, and a lot more than 11 guys who want one.
>
>As I recall the Hot Rod story, there really is no $5 million Cuda. The
>story is that the guy bought one for $2 million and someone offered him
>$5 million and he refused. I have no reason to doubt the guy's word,
>but the fact is that the "buyer" never actually reached the moment of
>truth. The same guy who owns the "$5 million" also actually paid $3
>million for his other '71 Hemi Cuda vert. So there really is a $3
>million Plymouth.
>
>The one that kills me, that you might have seen in the latest Hemmings
>Muscle Machines, is the, iirc, '71 Barracuda vert that had been CLONED
>into a 440-6v, going for more than $120,000. Hemi clones also sell for
>that kind of dough, and higher. Now that's stupid money.
>
>180 Out

I saw a bombed out shell of a 1970 318 'Cuda sell for $13,000 last
year at a car show near Toronto. Every piece of these things is now
gold.
-Rich

I saw that Hemmings clone.... which is another area of B-J... if
you've watched the auctions.... you can actually see a clone go for
more than an original. That is weird! And when you see something like
a clone Eleanor, which was never even remotely associated with the
movie go for major bucks over an original restored car... ya gotta
wonder if some of those buyers don't have way too much money for their
own good. The auctions though are much like eBay, and any other
auction. There's always someone who has no idea what the true value of
something is when the keep bidding. I've seen auctions where bidders
have raised the price of something higher than they could buy at
retail, and that's before shipping is tacked on.

On 22 Jun 2005 09:30:37 -0700, wrote:

wrote:
>
>> The other thing that gets me is that the nuts and bolts of these cars
>> are not worth the prices they're paying for them. They were just
>> mass-produced factory-built cars that were meant to be driven... not
>> hand-built, hand-fabricated, pieces of art.
>
>Well, as the story pointed out, there are only 11 '71 Hemi Cuda 4-spd
>verts, and a lot more than 11 guys who want one.
>
>As I recall the Hot Rod story, there really is no $5 million Cuda. The
>story is that the guy bought one for $2 million and someone offered him
>$5 million and he refused. I have no reason to doubt the guy's word,
>but the fact is that the "buyer" never actually reached the moment of
>truth. The same guy who owns the "$5 million" also actually paid $3
>million for his other '71 Hemi Cuda vert. So there really is a $3
>million Plymouth.
>
>The one that kills me, that you might have seen in the latest Hemmings
>Muscle Machines, is the, iirc, '71 Barracuda vert that had been CLONED
>into a 440-6v, going for more than $120,000. Hemi clones also sell for
>that kind of dough, and higher. Now that's stupid money.
>
>180 Out

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16