Should this trooper be fired?

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:24:49 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>>>Oh, here comes the "Code of Silence" cliche again.
>>>
>>> Since when is the "Omerta" of the Police Force a cliche?
>>
>>When it becomes used to describe police activities when there is no
>>evidence
>>to do so.
>
> Puh-leeeze, your disingenuity is getting *really* old.
>
> Don't forget, my brother was a cop before he joined the DEA. He was
> the one who game me the FOP sticker for my car so that I would be able
> to avoid tickets.

It helps, but cops can write warnings to anyone no matter what their
profession is.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:59:41 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:

>
>"Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
link.net...
>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
>>> nk.net...
>>>>
>>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
>>>>> ink.net...
>>>>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> There was no harm other than his rudeness and
>>>>>>> there was no foul either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Easy for you to say--it wasn't your son who died.
>>>>>
>>>>> No it wasn't, and while that is a tragedy I still stick by my original
>>>>> response which was that I don't believe an 18 year veteran with an
>>>>> unblemished career should be fired for a comment.
>>>>
>>>> I think there are comments that are firing offenses, like racial
>>>> epithets, sexist denigrations, and lying in a report or under oath. But
>>>> for this, no.
>>>>
>>>> Even 15 days is still
>>>>> excessive.
>>>>
>>>> A 2 day rip is about right for this. It goes on his permanent record
>>>> and he'll probably miss a round or 2 of promotions. That should cover
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> The responders were on the way and he made a rude comment.
>>>>> Those are about the only facts we really have.
>>>>
>>>> That set of comments (not just one, mind you) wreaked havoc on the
>>>> feelings of two parents who had just lost their son in an accident. At
>>>> a time like this, you think it's okay if a cop makes nasty comments?
>>>
>>> I never said it was okay under any circumstance, even still he had no way
>>> of knowing the person would die.
>>
>> So a cop on duty can make inappropriate comments to victims of the type
>> Peasley made and not be disciplined, is that what you're saying?
>
>Nope, not at all.


What about ignoring those calling for help because someone is bleeding
to death?

Even if their injuries came from a motorcycle crash?

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:11:10 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:

>
>"L Sternn" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:31:31 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"DTJ" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:25:40 -0800, The Real Bev
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Does anybody know for an actual fact that jaybird is a real live law
>>>>>enforcement officer? Is it not possible that he's an anti-cop troll? I
>>>>>know he's certainly decreased MY respect for the average everyday cop.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've known only one cop, and that was 50 years ago. He seemed just
>>>>>about as arrogant.
>>>>
>>>> You have a point, because of all the cops I know, I have never met one
>>>> that is as much of an asshole as jaybird is. I know dozens who are
>>>> fine, outstanding people, who condemn his views every time I show them
>>>> what he says. One, a state cop in Illinois, has basically said he
>>>> would like to go visit jaybird in texas and leave him in the gulf.
>>>
>>>That's strange. All the cops I know agree with me.
>>
>> What LEA do you work for, jaybird?
>
>That's a little too personal for some of the clowns hanging around Usenet,
>but it's a large department.



Chicken****. All I wanted to do was bring your posts to the
attention of your supervisors.

>
>>
>> I've had some experience with Texas cops. No, I've never been
>> arrested, so you can forget the idea that I'm just bitter over the
>> fact that I got caught.
>>
>> IME, city cops are the worst, be they big city cops or small town
>> cops. Although many of them seemed to be genuinely doing their best
>> to do a good job, many of them seemed to be totally intent on abusing
>> their power as much as possible, which included sleeping on the job.
>
>There aren't many abuses around here.

You expect us to take YOUR word for that?

> Occasionally we'll get one or two bad
>apples that have to be fired, and I don't think anyone around here has been
>caught sleeping in I don't know how long. There just aren't any places to
>hide to do that around here.

Why don't I believe you?

>
>>
>> State troopers on the whole seemed to be a higher class of cop - just
>> my experience, maybe they're not.
>
>I'd have to agree.
>
>>
>> I do remember the off-duty cops who worked security at the planetarium
>> I used to run laser shows at. I once marched 3 drunken assholes out
>> to the security officer's post after I caught them ****ing on a mural
>> just outside the door to the planetarium. ****ing HPD rent-a-cop was
>> sleeping on the job and by the time he came to, the drunks had
>> wandered off to the rest rooms.
>>
>> It's actually kind of amazing that I was able to herd the drunks all
>> the way to his post in the first place.
>>
>> So, after this piece of **** (it could have been jaybird - I don't
>> know that he doesn't work for HPD) woke up out of his (probably
>> alcohol-induced) sleep state, he asked what I expected him to do.
>
>Now look... Here you go showing your maturity level again. I'm trying to
>have a normal, adult conversation and haven't gotten personal with you.
>What would lead you to believe that I'd ever sleep on duty, and if so that
>it would be alcohol related?


You've demonstrated that you're a very ****ty cop as well as a ****ty
human being.

>
>>
>> Well, at the very least, I expected him to toss those drunken
>> mural-****ers out of the museum. Arresting them certainly would have
>> been justified too.
>>
>> But I was too disgusted by that point and besides - I had been letting
>> the planetarium show run itself for a good 5 minutes.
>>
>> There was a state trooper that also worked security there sometimes.
>> He seemed like a decent human being, but he told me some stories that
>> I only hope were exagerrated or made up - tTales of New Orleans cops
>> throwing people threw plate glass windows for no reason and his
>> personal experiences with another HPD officer who had recently emptied
>> his sidearm into the back of an unarmed man he had pulled over for
>> running a red light.
>>
>> Do you have any personal experiences with Tschrihart, jaybird? He
>> shot Byron Gillum to death. Perhaps you recall that incident. Even
>> if you don't, I'm sure you'll be able to explain why it was justified.
>> After all, who needs facts when you can make all the assumptions you
>> want.
>
>I didn't even know who he was until I googled the name.

Civilians remember **** like that.

Rememeber Ida Lee Delaney?

She was shot by drunk cops who chased her down the freeway for 30
minutes. In a panic, she pulled over by a highway maintenance crew.
The drunk cops pulled up behind her and shot her to death.

All because they thought she cut them off on the freeway.

And you wonder why people hate cops.



> Apparently he was a
>cop who was fired 15 years ago over a shooting. No, I don't have any
>personal experience with him.

You're lucky.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:15:40 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:

>
>"L Sternn" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:36:01 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"L Sternn" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:49:30 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"L Sternn" > wrote in message
om...
>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:07:59 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Now, if the cop made an honest mistake, I would support him EVEN IF
>>>>>>>>HE
>>>>>>>>HAD A HISTORY of bad mistakes. The issue is the behavior in
>>>>>>>>question,
>>>>>>>>not how someone else behaves, nor what he did in the past.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Usually before an employee can be fired for cause, a pattern of
>>>>>>>unprofessional behavior must be documented. Unless you're Donald
>>>>>>>Trump, you can't just tell an employee "you're fired" on impulse
>>>>>>>(unless you want to be sued). You have to give the employee a
>>>>>>>documented opportunity to "straighten up" before you can drop the axe.
>>>>>>>I imagine these requirements are even more stringent in a strong union
>>>>>>>environment such as the FOP. Bottom line, even if his boss wanted to
>>>>>>>fire that trooper, he probably couldn't do it because of the 18 year
>>>>>>>clean record.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps his superiors should be fired for covering up all the bad ****
>>>>>> he did for 18 years.
>>>>>
>>>>>Can you provide a cite for that information?
>>>>
>>>> Do you understand the word "perhaps"?
>>>
>>>Sure, but it's still an accusation based on nothing.
>>
>>
>> It's a question. Why are you being so defensive. I've also said that
>> maybe he did really think help had already been dispatched.
>>
>> Was that an accusation too?


It's a question, asshole.

>
>Holy crap... Yes I am being a little defensive because you're claiming this
>cop did "bad ****" for 18 years. I'm not seeing where you're getting that
>information.
>

Nope

>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> None of us have seen anything
>>>>>from his past.
>>>>
>>>> Do you believe he just snapped one day?
>>>
>>>None of us know why he did what he did. What we do know is that it
>>>happened, and we do know that he has a spotless 18 year record.
>>
>> Do you assume that a "spotless" record means he has been a model cop
>> all these years?
>
>You are the one assuming about his record. All I'm saying is that he had no
>previous disciplinary action.


Do you believe he just snapped one day?

>
>>
>> I'd bet Barney Fife had a "spotless" record too. Would you really
>> want him on your local PD without Andy along to save the day?
>
>I've known a couple of those. They didn't last very long.


Very often, they last long enough to kill an innocent civilian

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:16:39 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:

>
>"L Sternn" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:37:27 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>>
>>>> Coming from someone who intentionally misrepresents the facts in order
>>>> to defend the indefensible is a liar.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't like it, tell the truth.
>>>
>>>Of course. All I've done is re-stated the information we already have.
>>
>> Nope - that's what I have done, but I don't expect you to mend your
>> ways simply because I've called you on it.
>
>So now we've both done it, to the benefit of our own view of the situation
>and we've gotten nowhere.

Nope - you have no credibility.

You're a piece of **** too scared to tell us who you work for.

"L Sternn" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:59:41 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
>>>> nk.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ink.net...
>>>>>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> There was no harm other than his rudeness and
>>>>>>>> there was no foul either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Easy for you to say--it wasn't your son who died.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No it wasn't, and while that is a tragedy I still stick by my
>>>>>> original
>>>>>> response which was that I don't believe an 18 year veteran with an
>>>>>> unblemished career should be fired for a comment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think there are comments that are firing offenses, like racial
>>>>> epithets, sexist denigrations, and lying in a report or under oath.
>>>>> But
>>>>> for this, no.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even 15 days is still
>>>>>> excessive.
>>>>>
>>>>> A 2 day rip is about right for this. It goes on his permanent record
>>>>> and he'll probably miss a round or 2 of promotions. That should cover
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The responders were on the way and he made a rude comment.
>>>>>> Those are about the only facts we really have.
>>>>>
>>>>> That set of comments (not just one, mind you) wreaked havoc on the
>>>>> feelings of two parents who had just lost their son in an accident.
>>>>> At
>>>>> a time like this, you think it's okay if a cop makes nasty comments?
>>>>
>>>> I never said it was okay under any circumstance, even still he had no
>>>> way
>>>> of knowing the person would die.
>>>
>>> So a cop on duty can make inappropriate comments to victims of the type
>>> Peasley made and not be disciplined, is that what you're saying?
>>
>>Nope, not at all.
>
>
> What about ignoring those calling for help because someone is bleeding
> to death?
>
> Even if their injuries came from a motorcycle crash?

A dispatcher can't ignore calls, but we haven't been able to determine that
to be the case here. He hung up, but no one knows how soon or by whom the
units were sent.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"L Sternn" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:11:10 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"L Sternn" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:31:31 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"DTJ" > wrote in message
m...
>>>>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:25:40 -0800, The Real Bev
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Does anybody know for an actual fact that jaybird is a real live law
>>>>>>enforcement officer? Is it not possible that he's an anti-cop troll?
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>know he's certainly decreased MY respect for the average everyday cop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've known only one cop, and that was 50 years ago. He seemed just
>>>>>>about as arrogant.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have a point, because of all the cops I know, I have never met one
>>>>> that is as much of an asshole as jaybird is. I know dozens who are
>>>>> fine, outstanding people, who condemn his views every time I show them
>>>>> what he says. One, a state cop in Illinois, has basically said he
>>>>> would like to go visit jaybird in texas and leave him in the gulf.
>>>>
>>>>That's strange. All the cops I know agree with me.
>>>
>>> What LEA do you work for, jaybird?
>>
>>That's a little too personal for some of the clowns hanging around Usenet,
>>but it's a large department.
>
>
>
> Chicken****. All I wanted to do was bring your posts to the
> attention of your supervisors.

And what do you hope to accomplish by that? I have no desire to send your
posts to your supervisor, nor would I care to.

>
>>
>>>
>>> I've had some experience with Texas cops. No, I've never been
>>> arrested, so you can forget the idea that I'm just bitter over the
>>> fact that I got caught.
>>>
>>> IME, city cops are the worst, be they big city cops or small town
>>> cops. Although many of them seemed to be genuinely doing their best
>>> to do a good job, many of them seemed to be totally intent on abusing
>>> their power as much as possible, which included sleeping on the job.
>>
>>There aren't many abuses around here.
>
> You expect us to take YOUR word for that?

I'm definitely not expecting you to.

>
>> Occasionally we'll get one or two bad
>>apples that have to be fired, and I don't think anyone around here has
>>been
>>caught sleeping in I don't know how long. There just aren't any places to
>>hide to do that around here.
>
> Why don't I believe you?

Because you've already demonstrated that you will disagree with anything
that I post.

>
>>
>>>
>>> State troopers on the whole seemed to be a higher class of cop - just
>>> my experience, maybe they're not.
>>
>>I'd have to agree.
>>
>>>
>>> I do remember the off-duty cops who worked security at the planetarium
>>> I used to run laser shows at. I once marched 3 drunken assholes out
>>> to the security officer's post after I caught them ****ing on a mural
>>> just outside the door to the planetarium. ****ing HPD rent-a-cop was
>>> sleeping on the job and by the time he came to, the drunks had
>>> wandered off to the rest rooms.
>>>
>>> It's actually kind of amazing that I was able to herd the drunks all
>>> the way to his post in the first place.
>>>
>>> So, after this piece of **** (it could have been jaybird - I don't
>>> know that he doesn't work for HPD) woke up out of his (probably
>>> alcohol-induced) sleep state, he asked what I expected him to do.
>>
>>Now look... Here you go showing your maturity level again. I'm trying to
>>have a normal, adult conversation and haven't gotten personal with you.
>>What would lead you to believe that I'd ever sleep on duty, and if so that
>>it would be alcohol related?
>
>
> You've demonstrated that you're a very ****ty cop as well as a ****ty
> human being.

Coming from a person who uses profanity and belittlement to prove an
opinion, I think I'll still get 8 hours of sleep tonight.

>
>>
>>>
>>> Well, at the very least, I expected him to toss those drunken
>>> mural-****ers out of the museum. Arresting them certainly would have
>>> been justified too.
>>>
>>> But I was too disgusted by that point and besides - I had been letting
>>> the planetarium show run itself for a good 5 minutes.
>>>
>>> There was a state trooper that also worked security there sometimes.
>>> He seemed like a decent human being, but he told me some stories that
>>> I only hope were exagerrated or made up - tTales of New Orleans cops
>>> throwing people threw plate glass windows for no reason and his
>>> personal experiences with another HPD officer who had recently emptied
>>> his sidearm into the back of an unarmed man he had pulled over for
>>> running a red light.
>>>
>>> Do you have any personal experiences with Tschrihart, jaybird? He
>>> shot Byron Gillum to death. Perhaps you recall that incident. Even
>>> if you don't, I'm sure you'll be able to explain why it was justified.
>>> After all, who needs facts when you can make all the assumptions you
>>> want.
>>
>>I didn't even know who he was until I googled the name.
>
> Civilians remember **** like that.
>
> Rememeber Ida Lee Delaney?
>
> She was shot by drunk cops who chased her down the freeway for 30
> minutes. In a panic, she pulled over by a highway maintenance crew.
> The drunk cops pulled up behind her and shot her to death.
>
> All because they thought she cut them off on the freeway.
>
> And you wonder why people hate cops.

Not all people hate cops, just you for some reason.

>
>
>
>> Apparently he was a
>>cop who was fired 15 years ago over a shooting. No, I don't have any
>>personal experience with him.
>
> You're lucky.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

> "Dave Swanson" wrote:
> After reading this article I conclude the trooper is
> an anti-biker, who cannot tolerate anyone who rides
> motorcycles. His attitude and actions were criminal
> and negligent. How can anyone justify what he did,
> and the way he acted? There are thousands of unemployed
> citizens who could perform much better than this
> pitiful asshole.

I wonder if the guy would have gotten the same "15 days in the penalty box"
(likely on paid administrative leave, imo) had it been the Chief calling in
about his son involved in a bike related accident? Any guess on how the
Chief would have voted in similar circumstances?

I agree on the vote of firing -- bad day or not.

B~

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:35:47 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:


>>
>>
>> What about ignoring those calling for help because someone is bleeding
>> to death?
>>
>> Even if their injuries came from a motorcycle crash?
>
>A dispatcher can't ignore calls, but we haven't been able to determine that
>to be the case here. He hung up, but no one knows how soon or by whom the
>units were sent.

You don't think they know?

They just don't want to release the information because it would make
them look bad.


How do you explain the "inefficient action" he was charged with?

How could he even dispatch anyone when he didn't bother to verify
where the accident was?

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:12:04 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:

>> Heh - I already followed up that angle. Even if the shot was due to
>> negligence, jaybird claimed it was a completely different situation.
>
>It wasn't a claim, it was how the situation met the elements of the offense
>of Deadly Conduct.

Dead is dead.

When I'm gone, the living can argue all they want to about what killed
me. But I'll still be dead.

It's a pretty simple concept.

Whether you die from a gunshot wound or from injuries that went
untreated because a 911 operator hung up on you will matter very
little in the end.