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Snow Chains in Audi A6 Quattro



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 21st 04, 10:30 PM
Ascot
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Default Snow Chains in Audi A6 Quattro

Hi.

Although to speak of chains for snow in full midsummer is an anachronism,
the topic it is the following one. I have possessed during many years
vehicles 4x4 in those that I have always recommended and they have
recommended me that in the event of needing chains, and not to have them for
the 4 wheels, to always place them in the front axis because this way
improvement the traction. Because the fact is that I have just used for the
first time an Audi A6 quattro and in the manual of instructions he says with
uppercase and in boldface that" never to place them in the front axis and
always in the bottom." With independence that I will consult it in the
dealer. Does somebody take me out of my astonishment? Have I always been
mistaken, or is the Audi" different?"

Thanks in advance.


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  #2  
Old July 22nd 04, 03:54 AM
Dave LaCourse
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Ascot writes:

>Have I always been
>mistaken, or is the Audi" different?"


Quattro is not a 4 X 4. It is an all wheel drive system - very different.

If you *must* use chains, they should go on all four corners. However, I live
in snowy New England and have never had the need for chains with Quattro AWD.
You can go just about anywhere with a good set of tires, but stopping can be a
problem. Therefore, I recommend good snow tires on all four corners. You'll
go anywhere you want, and you'll be able to also stop. Put studs on the snows
and you can live atop Mt Washington......... well 2/3rds of the way up, at
least. d;o)
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html







  #3  
Old July 22nd 04, 08:21 PM
Jay Somerset
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:30:33 +0200, "Ascot" >
wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Although to speak of chains for snow in full midsummer is an anachronism,
> the topic it is the following one. I have possessed during many years
> vehicles 4x4 in those that I have always recommended and they have
> recommended me that in the event of needing chains, and not to have them for
> the 4 wheels, to always place them in the front axis because this way
> improvement the traction. Because the fact is that I have just used for the
> first time an Audi A6 quattro and in the manual of instructions he says with
> uppercase and in boldface that" never to place them in the front axis and
> always in the bottom." With independence that I will consult it in the
> dealer. Does somebody take me out of my astonishment? Have I always been
> mistaken, or is the Audi" different?"
>
> Thanks in advance.
>



With AWD, you really need all four tires to be the same. If you want
chains, then they should go on all four wheels. For most conditions (other
than ice) a good snow tire should be adequate.

The specification that chains should never go on the front alone is correct
-- you NEVER want the rear wheels to have less traction or cornering force
than the fronts, otherwise the car will spin out much too easily. For the
same reason, you should always keep the tires with the greatest tread depth
on the rear, not the front.
  #4  
Old July 22nd 04, 08:54 PM
R@L
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Default

"Jay Somerset" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:30:33 +0200, "Ascot" >
> wrote:
>
> > Hi.
> >
> > Although to speak of chains for snow in full midsummer is an

anachronism,
> > the topic it is the following one. I have possessed during many years
> > vehicles 4x4 in those that I have always recommended and they have
> > recommended me that in the event of needing chains, and not to have them

for
> > the 4 wheels, to always place them in the front axis because this way
> > improvement the traction. Because the fact is that I have just used for

the
> > first time an Audi A6 quattro and in the manual of instructions he says

with
> > uppercase and in boldface that" never to place them in the front axis

and
> > always in the bottom." With independence that I will consult it in the
> > dealer. Does somebody take me out of my astonishment? Have I always been
> > mistaken, or is the Audi" different?"
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >

>
>
> With AWD, you really need all four tires to be the same. If you want
> chains, then they should go on all four wheels. For most conditions (other
> than ice) a good snow tire should be adequate.
>
> The specification that chains should never go on the front alone is

correct
> -- you NEVER want the rear wheels to have less traction or cornering force
> than the fronts, otherwise the car will spin out much too easily. For the
> same reason, you should always keep the tires with the greatest tread

depth
> on the rear, not the front.


Hear hear!
I thought I was they only one knowing that the best tires should be in the
rear.
Now I know there's at least someone else.

Ronald


  #5  
Old July 23rd 04, 10:20 AM
Wolfgang Pawlinetz
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Default

R@L schrieb:

>Hear hear!


>I thought I was they only one knowing that the best tires should be in the
>rear.
>Now I know there's at least someone else.


Can you elaborate?

Why would it be better to have less friction in the front on a front
driven car? That supports understeering, doesn't it? The rear wheels
just roll along. What's the error here?

Regards

Wolfgang
--
* Audi A6 Avant TDI *
* reply to wolfgang dot pawlinetz at chello dot at *
  #6  
Old July 23rd 04, 10:54 AM
BBO
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Wolfgang Pawlinetz > writes:

> R@L schrieb:
>
> >Hear hear!

>
> >I thought I was they only one knowing that the best tires should be in the
> >rear.
> >Now I know there's at least someone else.

>
> Can you elaborate?
>
> Why would it be better to have less friction in the front on a front
> driven car? That supports understeering, doesn't it? The rear wheels
> just roll along. What's the error here?


If you have ever tried to break hard, really hard, with badly worn
tires at the back you would know. The tires with the least grip will
try to get in front of the tires with the best grip...

--
Børge Berg-Olsen
------------------------------------------------------------------------
+47 90 62 71 78 DoD#2101, DoDRT#017, NIC#015, PJ#006, OGM#007
, '93 Audi 100 2.3E Ubesudlet: Aldri eid en J&%#PS
  #7  
Old July 23rd 04, 12:33 PM
Wolfgang Pawlinetz
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Default

BBO wrote:

>If you have ever tried to break hard, really hard, with badly worn
>tires at the back you would know.


Sure did. As hard as it would go. On parking lots I did lots of try
(and error ;-)) things. On gravel and on snow as well as on dry
tarmac.

I never had the problem that on my front driven A6 the rear broke out.

But I often had the problem that the car would understeer.

So, what are you guys doing differently?

>The tires with the least grip will
>try to get in front of the tires with the best grip...


Maybe I change tires too early to see that. Mine go when they are down
to 2 mm for summer and less then 3 to 4 on winter tires.

Maybe I'm also OT as this is a quattro thread.

Regards

Wolfgang
--
* Audi A6 Avant TDI *
* reply to wolfgang dot pawlinetz at chello dot at *
  #8  
Old July 23rd 04, 01:08 PM
Jay Somerset
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On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:33:16 +0200, Wolfgang Pawlinetz >
wrote:

> BBO wrote:
>
> >If you have ever tried to break hard, really hard, with badly worn
> >tires at the back you would know.

>
> Sure did. As hard as it would go. On parking lots I did lots of try
> (and error ;-)) things. On gravel and on snow as well as on dry
> tarmac.
>
> I never had the problem that on my front driven A6 the rear broke out.
>
> But I often had the problem that the car would understeer.
>
> So, what are you guys doing differently?
>
> >The tires with the least grip will
> >try to get in front of the tires with the best grip...

>
> Maybe I change tires too early to see that. Mine go when they are down
> to 2 mm for summer and less then 3 to 4 on winter tires.
>
> Maybe I'm also OT as this is a quattro thread.
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang


If you are able to brake in a completely straight line, on a smooth surface,
with absolutely constant coefficient of friction, then the rear tires will
probably stay in line behind the front. Deviations from this ideal condition
will require some quick reaction on the steering to keep the car straight.

However, if you hit a patch on the road with appreciably different traction,
or if the right wheels encounter a different situation thasn the left, even
fast steering reaction may not be enough to prevent the rear from coming
around. Or if you are turning and still have to slow down (bad planning;
unexpected obstacle, etc.)

A slight bit of understeer is not bad -- you just have to approach your
corners a bit differently than if you had oversteer. A lot of understeer is
not good -- neither is a lot of oversteer.

While a "expert driver" might get away with an oversteering car, the
presciption to put the better tires on the rear is proper for "the average
driver" and certainly safest for those with no clue at all. :-)
  #9  
Old July 23rd 04, 01:54 PM
Wolfgang Pawlinetz
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Default

Jay Somerset schrieb:

>If you are able to brake in a completely straight line, on a smooth surface,
>with absolutely constant coefficient of friction, then the rear tires will
>probably stay in line behind the front. Deviations from this ideal condition
>will require some quick reaction on the steering to keep the car straight.
>
>However, if you hit a patch on the road with appreciably different traction,
>or if the right wheels encounter a different situation thasn the left, even
>fast steering reaction may not be enough to prevent the rear from coming
>around. Or if you are turning and still have to slow down (bad planning;
>unexpected obstacle, etc.)


This is entirely true for a non ABS car. But wrong for an Audi (or any
other car wit ABS). BTDT myself more then once. We trained that on a 3
day handling/track training class and with the ABS on a full power
brake with the left side on perfect race tarmac and the right side on
deliberately slippery surface (a special surface which gets slippery
like ice when wettened) it only required the slightest bit of
countersteer, and I mean just a bit, to keep a straight line. All cars
without ABS went off the track unless the would open the brakes,
re-align and hit the brakes hard again.

>A slight bit of understeer is not bad -- you just have to approach your
>corners a bit differently than if you had oversteer. A lot of understeer is
>not good -- neither is a lot of oversteer.


Yep. Agreed.

>While a "expert driver" might get away with an oversteering car, the
>presciption to put the better tires on the rear is proper for "the average
>driver" and certainly safest for those with no clue at all. :-)


Hmmm.

Regards

Wolfgang
--
* Audi A6 Avant TDI *
* reply to wolfgang dot pawlinetz at chello dot at *
  #10  
Old July 23rd 04, 05:01 PM
Dave LaCourse
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Default

Wolfgang writes:

>Can you elaborate?
>
>Why would it be better to have less friction in the front on a front
>driven car? That supports understeering, doesn't it? The rear wheels
>just roll along. What's the error here?


I have to agree with Wolfgang. The braking system is biased towards the front
wheels. They do most of the stopping. Plus, there is no way the rear end is
going to come around regardless of the tire wear unless the rear locks up first
which isn't going to happen on any car I've ever driven.

I've driven school cars with "bologna skins" on both the front and the rear
with fwd cars. We called them bologna skins because they were nearly bald.
But, they gave more of a foot print on the track and were better performers
than *new* tires. Of course rain is another matter when tire treads are
involved. I wouldn't want to drive a slick tire (bologna skin) in the rain,
especially on the front.

I've owned Quattros for more than 20 years and the tires always wear the same.
I rotate on a regular basis (every 10k miles), so the tires wear evenly. In
fact, I've never seen a Quattro with tires that weren't worn evenly.

Well maintained (rotation and inflation) tires are essential to good safety and
performance on any car, yet it is often the most overlooked item on the car. I
see even cop cars with underinflated tires just begging to come off the wheel
in an emergency high speed maneuver.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html







 




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