Doing my own brakes (97 Accord) - need some advice

I am a handy guy (engineering background) and I do quite a bit of my
own work on my car (oil changes, electrical repairs, etc). I am
considering doing my own brake work. With the miles I put on my car
each year, I am servicing both front and rear brakes annually at a
cost of close to $800. I know that servicing brakes on my own are
risky, as my safety can be compromised. I am looking to hear from
other "amateurs" who decided to do their own brakes and the problems
they have encountered. Any tips and recommendations to quickly get up
to speed would be helpfull. I have my service manual to my 97 Accord.
Are their classes that any of you took to learn this from a
professional? I know that rotors often need to be resurfaced
professionally. Where do you guys go for that and how much does it
usually cost? Are their videos that anyone would recommend?Since this
is my only car, I am wondering if that means I need to keep spare
rotors to swap out.

> wrote
>I am a handy guy (engineering background) and I do quite a
>bit of my
> own work on my car (oil changes, electrical repairs, etc).
> I am
> considering doing my own brake work. With the miles I put
> on my car
> each year, I am servicing both front and rear brakes
> annually at a
> cost of close to $800. I know that servicing brakes on my
> own are
> risky, as my safety can be compromised. I am looking to
> hear from
> other "amateurs" who decided to do their own brakes and
> the problems
> they have encountered.

One thing I learned (writing as an amateur also with an
engineering background, though a fairly "hands on" one) is
that it's hard to mess up brakes so badly that the risk is
any greater than a random non-brake part failing and causing
injury.

Automotive brake systems are "mechanically tough" and have
multiple redundancies in their design.

Some 12 years after I started doing my own front brake pad
replacements and rear brake inspections, I took one
community college (vocational side) course on brakes. Mostly
what it did is give me more practice at quickly getting
apart and putting back together my 91 Civic's rear drum
brakes and similar drum brakes.

I replaced the front pads on my 91 Civic this past summer
(after a somewhat exhausting do-it-yourself timing belt
tensioner etc. replacement that went a bit amiss) and was
amazed at how quickly I did them this time vs. the first
time some 15 years ago. It took around fifteen minutes
total, with five of those minutes going to put the front of
my car on jackstands. Knowing exactly what tools will speed
up the job helps immensely, of course.

Some (all?) 97 Accord's have rear drum brakes. The shoes on
rear drum brakes wear much more slowly than the front
brake's pads. This is good, because the pads are much easier
to change.

I never had the rotors on my 91 Civic turned. The thickness
is okay (a bit uneven), and they are a bit scored, but the
brakes seem to work fine. Plus the car is likely only good
for the proverbial (amongst those of us who drive cars into
the ground!) "five more years." But YMMV, as far as wanting
nicer rotors is concerned.

> wrote in message
ps.com...



I am servicing both front and rear brakes annually at a
> cost of close to $800.

That is AWFULLY expensive, I think

> I know that servicing brakes on my own are risky, as my safety can
> be compromised. I am looking to hear fromother "amateurs" who
>decided to do their own brakes and the problems
> they have encountered. Any tips and recommendations to quickly get up
> to speed would be helpfull. I have my service manual to my 97 Accord.
> Are their classes that any of you took to learn this from a
> professional? I know that rotors often need to be resurfaced
> professionally. Where do you guys go for that and how much does it
> usually cost? Are their videos that anyone would recommend?Since this
> is my only car, I am wondering if that means I need to keep spare
> rotors to swap out.


Years ago, I worked evenings and weekends as a mechanic to make extra money.
I took classes and worked with professionals who could give me the benefit
of
their experience.

As far as safety wise, be very careful how you get your car up on supports,
and
how you take it down. (You already know the supports MUST be robust)

Sometimes rotors need to be resurfaced or replaced. BUT NOT ALWAYS
If they must be resufaced, I take them to a local machine shop. I have dial
indicators and micrometers which help me determine if the rotors are true
and of sufficient thickness. I have a torque wrench to put the wheels back
on properly.

If you are having to re-do brakes annually, something seem suspicious.
Pads usually last a lot longer than that. Rotors do too.

What is your problem, or what are you trying to accomplish?

I'm gonna jump in here and offer general comments - I haven't done my Honda
brakes yet but am close to doing so - I have done brakes on several other
vehicles that I have owned and would recommend that you consider going ahead
and do your own on the Honda - others may have more Honda-specific tips to
suggest.

from the diagrams I have seen, Honda rotors look to be quite simple to
exchange - some vehicles have the rotors as part of the hub assembly and
this would complicate the issue so that you would have to deal with bearings
and greasing them and torquing them, etc - apparently Honda has taken the
higher road and has the rotors as a removeable disk attached to the hub so
we don't have to get into that.

what has to be done is to remove the caliper (pads first) - take out a
couple of screws holding the rotor in place - replace with a new rotor (or
resurface your old one and replace) and reinstall the caliper and pads
(probably new ones) - and you're done
one thing to watch is master cylinder fluid level - you may have to compress
the caliper piston (I use a C-clamp) to make room for new pads which have
more thickness and this might overflow the master cylinder fluid level
another thing to ware of is that you take care to hang the removed caliper
so that it doesn't cause stress on the caliper hoses.

to determine whether to resurface or replace you first may determine the
remaining thickness of your rotors by miking them and comparing to min specs
taking into consideration the condition of your rotors (i.e. if they are
deeply scored and grinding them down to remove the scoring will make them
too thin..)

nowadays, it seems that resurfacing has taking a back seat to replacing
(maybe it's more cost effective {if so, another sad state of affairs} and
others will give advice about that) - but that seems to be the
recommendations that garages I've dealt with offer - maybe it's simpler for
them...

spare rotors: I wouldn't think that's necessary - the only risk might be in
getting things apart and discovering you need a part or something and have
no way of getting to a parts place to get it because your car is on
jacks.... think ahead here > don't get too heavily into the project that
you can't back out and drive to the parts store. If you have no other way
to get to a place to have rotors resurfaced, and you find they are below
spec by preliminary inspection, have new rotors on hand. You can always put
the new pads in and drive for a bit without destroying them immediately if
your pads are shot. Also make sure you have the necessary wrenches on hand -
I don't know yet about the Honda ones, but I got caught on my Taurus ones
not have the correct size Torx bit.

I'm sure someone here will post a link to a full-scale how-to for you. But
these are my initial caveats for you to consider.
As for your previous experience qualifications, I would say that you should
have no problems since you can use tools and can read (the engineering part
is only relevant regarding the literacy component - my son is an aerospace
engineer ;-)

Dave.

> wrote in message
ps.com...
>I am a handy guy (engineering background) and I do quite a bit of my
> own work on my car (oil changes, electrical repairs, etc). I am
> considering doing my own brake work. With the miles I put on my car
> each year, I am servicing both front and rear brakes annually at a
> cost of close to $800. I know that servicing brakes on my own are
> risky, as my safety can be compromised. I am looking to hear from
> other "amateurs" who decided to do their own brakes and the problems
> they have encountered. Any tips and recommendations to quickly get up
> to speed would be helpfull. I have my service manual to my 97 Accord.
> Are their classes that any of you took to learn this from a
> professional? I know that rotors often need to be resurfaced
> professionally. Where do you guys go for that and how much does it
> usually cost? Are their videos that anyone would recommend?Since this
> is my only car, I am wondering if that means I need to keep spare
> rotors to swap out.
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

> wrote:
>I am a handy guy (engineering background) and I do quite a bit of my
>own work on my car (oil changes, electrical repairs, etc). I am
>considering doing my own brake work. With the miles I put on my car
>each year, I am servicing both front and rear brakes annually at a
>cost of close to $800. I know that servicing brakes on my own are
>risky, as my safety can be compromised.

It's an easy job, and it's not hard to do right. If you are nervous
about it, get a friend to show you. But really, just replacing pads
is easy to learn from the Haynes manual.

>I am looking to hear from
>other "amateurs" who decided to do their own brakes and the problems
>they have encountered. Any tips and recommendations to quickly get up
>to speed would be helpfull. I have my service manual to my 97 Accord.
>Are their classes that any of you took to learn this from a
>professional?

No, I watched my dad do it on our MGB when I was a kid, and that was
all the training it took.

> I know that rotors often need to be resurfaced
>professionally. Where do you guys go for that and how much does it
>usually cost? Are their videos that anyone would recommend?Since this
>is my only car, I am wondering if that means I need to keep spare
>rotors to swap out.

How much do spare rotors cost? If they are cheap, just get an extra
set. Follow the directions in the manual and measure the rotors with
a micrometer (I actually cheat and use a vernier caliper) to make sure
they aren't too thin and aren't warped.

On most cars you won't need to resurface them unless they either get
warped or they get wrecked by not replacing the pads soon enough. If
you have access to a bench lathe at work, you can use it to resurface
the things. But if they are cheap, just replace them if you see any
signs of problem.

Ask someone at work who works on their own car to show you. It's an
easy job to do.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

" > wrote in
ps.com:

> I am a handy guy (engineering background) and I do quite a bit of my
> own work on my car (oil changes, electrical repairs, etc). I am
> considering doing my own brake work. With the miles I put on my car
> each year, I am servicing both front and rear brakes annually at a
> cost of close to $800. I know that servicing brakes on my own are
> risky, as my safety can be compromised. I am looking to hear from
> other "amateurs" who decided to do their own brakes and the problems
> they have encountered. Any tips and recommendations to quickly get up
> to speed would be helpfull. I have my service manual to my 97 Accord.
> Are their classes that any of you took to learn this from a
> professional? I know that rotors often need to be resurfaced
> professionally. Where do you guys go for that and how much does it
> usually cost? Are their videos that anyone would recommend?Since this
> is my only car, I am wondering if that means I need to keep spare
> rotors to swap out.
>


I made up this series of pages:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes1.html
It specifically concerns an Integra/Civic, but may help as a general
overview for your Accord.

Don't know if your Accord has rear drums or rear discs, and if discs,
whether you've got drum-in-hat or PB on caliper. If you've got drums, the
rears can be left alone for many years.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 15:44:56 -0700, wrote:

> I know that servicing brakes on my own are risky, as my safety can be
> compromised


Wow! How so? Once you get in there and see how easy it is, you'll wonder
why you didn't so it sooner.

Also, look at it this way: if someone with no more than a High School
education can do it, why can't you?

(HOLD IT!!!! That was meant as a JOKE, son. Those guys are well trained
(usually) by their employers, and have to deal with EVERY SINGLE brake
system on the road. When I get stumped, guess what I do...)

At any rate, the only thing I don't like about Hondas is that some of the
rotors are pressed onto the bearing, and it makes it a REAL PITA. I think
Honda got awa from this by '97.

I used to think the same way until I did my first brake job. And all wheel
dics are a snap. If it has rear drums, pay attention, make notes, or use
your digital camera. One time I put the adjuster on wrong on one side, but
corrected it before I drove the car...

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 19:44:02 -0400, Dave wrote:

> from the diagrams I have seen, Honda rotors look to be quite simple to
> exchange - some vehicles have the rotors as part of the hub assembly and
> this would complicate the issue so that you would have to deal with
> bearings and greasing them and torquing them, etc - apparently Honda has
> taken the higher road and has the rotors as a removeable disk attached to
> the hub so we don't have to get into that.

You need a press to service this system.

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:15:11 -0500, hls wrote:

>
> > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>
>
>
> I am servicing both front and rear brakes annually at a
>> cost of close to $800.
>
> That is AWFULLY expensive, I think
>
>> I know that servicing brakes on my own are risky, as my safety can be
>> compromised. I am looking to hear fromother "amateurs" who
>>decided to do their own brakes and the problems
>> they have encountered. Any tips and recommendations to quickly get up to
>> speed would be helpfull. I have my service manual to my 97 Accord. Are
>> their classes that any of you took to learn this from a professional? I
>> know that rotors often need to be resurfaced professionally. Where do
>> you guys go for that and how much does it usually cost? Are their videos
>> that anyone would recommend?Since this is my only car, I am wondering if
>> that means I need to keep spare rotors to swap out.
>
>
> Years ago, I worked evenings and weekends as a mechanic to make extra
> money. I took classes and worked with professionals who could give me the
> benefit of
> their experience.
>
> As far as safety wise, be very careful how you get your car up on
> supports, and
> how you take it down. (You already know the supports MUST be robust)
>
> Sometimes rotors need to be resurfaced or replaced. BUT NOT ALWAYS If they
> must be resufaced, I take them to a local machine shop. I have dial
> indicators and micrometers which help me determine if the rotors are true
> and of sufficient thickness. I have a torque wrench to put the wheels
> back on properly.

Rotors at palces like CarQuest and AutoZone are anywhere from $8 to $50.
Resurfacing costs $25-40 per rotor. I usually just buy the new rotors when
doing the pads, then I don't have to fart around with it for 30,000 miles
or more...

The way I drive my cars, that's ~3 years between jobs...




>
> If you are having to re-do brakes annually, something seem suspicious.
> Pads usually last a lot longer than that. Rotors do too.
>
> What is your problem, or what are you trying to accomplish?

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 15:44:56 -0700, wrote:
>
>> I know that servicing brakes on my own are risky, as my safety can be
>> compromised
>
>
> Wow! How so? Once you get in there and see how easy it is, you'll wonder
> why you didn't so it sooner.
>
> Also, look at it this way: if someone with no more than a High School
> education can do it, why can't you?
>
> (HOLD IT!!!! That was meant as a JOKE, son. Those guys are well trained
> (usually) by their employers, and have to deal with EVERY SINGLE brake
> system on the road. When I get stumped, guess what I do...)
>
> At any rate, the only thing I don't like about Hondas is that some of the
> rotors are pressed onto the bearing, and it makes it a REAL PITA.

but it's a great way of reducing the probability of insufficiently
trained brake jockeys causing brake judder...


> I think
> Honda got awa from this by '97.
>
> I used to think the same way until I did my first brake job. And all wheel
> dics are a snap. If it has rear drums, pay attention, make notes, or use
> your digital camera. One time I put the adjuster on wrong on one side, but
> corrected it before I drove the car...
>
>