Brakes too good.

"Mike G" > wrote in message
...
>
> "E28 Guy©" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Mike G wrote:
>>> "Fred W" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > Mike G wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> IOW when lightly braking, the pressure required on the pedal is not
>>> >> enough to hold me in the seat.
>>> >
>>> > You are not supposed to hold yourself in your seat with foot pressure
>>> > on
>>> > the brakes.
>>>
>>> Of course you are. Otherwise how would you stop yourself sliding forward
>>> in
>>> the seat under heavy braking.
>>
>> By either using the 'dead pedal' to brace with your other foot or by
>> depending on your seat/shoulder belt to hold you in place.
>
> Shouldn't be necessary. For comfort it's far better that the pressure
> exerted on the pedal is more or less the same as the pressure required to
> hold you in the seat. Of course the other foot is used as well, but it
> should not be needed for just light slowing down down braking.
>
> Using the
>> brake pedal to keep yourself from sliding forward in the seat is
>> ludicrous. It sounds as if you have your seat bottom cushion tilted
>> forward.
>
> Do you think that I don't know how to adjust a seat?
>
>>> I'm not a newbie to driving. I've been driving for decades.
>>
>> In which case I suppose I'm glad we're separated by an ocean.
>
> Make all the snide comments you like, but you have no idea of whether I'm
> good or bad driver. My insurance Co thinks I'm good enough for maximum NCB
> though, after 16 years of claim and conviction free motoring.
>
>>> I think I know
>>> by now what is acceptable as far as a foot brake is concerned, and as it
>>> stands, the foot brake on my car is too sensitive.
>>
>> Then put the heel of your brake foot on the floor and use it for
>> leverage and to modulate the pressure.
>
> Don't be ridiculous. If the ball of your foot is on the pedal, unless you
> have enormous feet, your heel will be off the floor.
> Mike.
>

My heel is on the floor while I work the brake pedal.

I completely do not get what your problem is, unless you have the back of
the seat higher than the front, and you slide downhill while stopping.

Maybe the seats are too slippery from the crap they smear on them at the
Detail Shop.

Use the foot rest under your left foot to hold you back against the seat
while you brake. Whatever the problem is, it isn't the brakes.

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...

> I completely do not get what your problem is, unless you have the back of
> the seat higher than the front, and you slide downhill while stopping.
>
> Maybe the seats are too slippery from the crap they smear on them at the
> Detail Shop.

None of the above applies.
>
> Use the foot rest under your left foot to hold you back against the seat
> while you brake. Whatever the problem is, it isn't the brakes.

You obviously don't believe there is an optimum for brake pedal pressure.
That brakes can be too light or too heavy for comfort. In which case I
understand your inability to understand what I mean when I say I believe the
brakes are too light for comfort.
Mike.

In article >,
Mike G > wrote:
> You obviously don't believe there is an optimum for brake pedal
> pressure. That brakes can be too light or too heavy for comfort. In
> which case I understand your inability to understand what I mean when I
> say I believe the brakes are too light for comfort.

FWIW I didn't notice any difference in pedal pressure when changing from
my E34 525 auto. I'd call the brakes on my E39 'perfectly weighted' ;-)

--
*Can fat people go skinny-dipping?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article >,
Jeff Strickland > wrote:
> > I'd suggest you have another look.

> And they are closer to the axle (center of the circle), so they require
> greater force to accomplish the same work.

A drum brake of that diameter is perfectly capable of working well as a
hand brake. And does on other models. But not the E39. As Mike G says the
same size brake works ok on an E34 - and you imply on a 3 Series.
FWIW I've driven other examples of the E39 and they're as bad. It is
hopeless for hill starts on a manual.

I will be changing all the discs and pads on my E39 shortly and may
investigate further, but when I first got the car I checked it thoroughly
and adjusted it correctly - which it wasn't as supplied by a main dealer,
with a stuck adjuster in one drum and the cables set incorrectly.

Just to confirm how poor it is if you're facing downwards on a slight hill
and still in drive it won't hold the car stationary.

--
*A hangover is the wrath of grapes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Mike G > wrote:
>> You obviously don't believe there is an optimum for brake pedal
>> pressure. That brakes can be too light or too heavy for comfort. In
>> which case I understand your inability to understand what I mean when I
>> say I believe the brakes are too light for comfort.
>
> FWIW I didn't notice any difference in pedal pressure when changing from
> my E34 525 auto. I'd call the brakes on my E39 'perfectly weighted' ;-)

You seem to be the only one who knows what I'm on about. :-)
I noticed yesterday when swapping the wheels, that all the discs could do
with being replaced. Not very badly worn, but a little too much lipping for
me.
Maybe once they are replaced with new pads all round, the brakes will feel
better, and maybe.I can improve the h/brake at the same time.
Mike.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article >,
> Jeff Strickland > wrote:
>
>>The hand brake is intended to keep a stationary car it rest, it is not
>>intended to bring a moving car to a halt. Yes, it can do that when
>>called upon,
>
>
> No it can't. Not if the car is left in drive.
>
>
>>but that is not its job, and its failure to do that as
>>well as the main brakes should not be considered a fault. For one
>>thing, the brake pads for the parking brake have less than half of the
>>mechanical advantage as the main brakes -- they are considerably
>>smaller in surface area, and they haven't the force (leverage) aplied
>>that the main brakes have.
>
>
> That's total ********. ;-) The E39 like most BMWs for years has a drum
> brake within the rear disk for the handbrake, and the friction area is
> many times that of the rear pads.
>

I believe Jeff hit the nail on the head with the "force (leverage)"
statement. The parking drum brakes have plenty of contact area, just
not enough mechanical advantage to provide the required friction.


--
-Fred W

E28 Guy© wrote:
> Mike G wrote:
>
>>"Fred W" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Mike G wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>IOW when lightly braking, the pressure required on the pedal is not
>>>>enough to hold me in the seat.
>>>
>>>You are not supposed to hold yourself in your seat with foot pressure on
>>>the brakes.
>>
>>Of course you are. Otherwise how would you stop yourself sliding forward in
>>the seat under heavy braking.
>
>
> By either using the 'dead pedal' to brace with your other foot or by
> depending on your seat/shoulder belt to hold you in place. Using the
> brake pedal to keep yourself from sliding forward in the seat is
> ludicrous. It sounds as if you have your seat bottom cushion tilted
> forward.
>
>
>>I'm not a newbie to driving. I've been driving for decades.
>
>
> In which case I suppose I'm glad we're separated by an ocean.
>
>
>>I think I know
>>by now what is acceptable as far as a foot brake is concerned, and as it
>>stands, the foot brake on my car is too sensitive.
>
>
> Then put the heel of your brake foot on the floor and use it for
> leverage and to modulate the pressure.
> --
> C.R. Krieger
>

Thanks. I weas going to say that but decided I would be wasting my
breath on such an experienced driver... ;-)

--
-Fred W

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article >,
> Jeff Strickland > wrote:
>
>>>That's total ********. ;-) The E39 like most BMWs for years has a drum
>>>brake within the rear disk for the handbrake, and the friction area is
>>>many times that of the rear pads.
>>>
>
>
>>On my car, the hand brake pads are very small. The braking force they
>>can apply is much less than the main brakes.
>
>
> Which BMW has a caliper hand brake?
> But no matter - this type is usually very good, and far better than the
> E39 drum in disc type. As is the combined type where the pads are shared.
>

Nobody said they had calipers. Just that the drum pads (shoes) are small...

--
-Fred W

Mike G wrote:

>
>
> You obviously don't believe there is an optimum for brake pedal
> pressure. That brakes can be too light or too heavy for comfort. In
> which case I understand your inability to understand what I mean when I
> say I believe the brakes are too light for comfort.

Getting to the main point above, what are you using for pads and rotors?
I have found that there can be a great deal of variation depending on
what kind of rotors and pads are installed. Some tend to be much
grabbier than others...


--
-Fred W

"Fred W" > wrote in message
...
> E28 Guy© wrote:
>> Mike G wrote:
>>
>>>"Fred W" > wrote in message
...

>> In which case I suppose I'm glad we're separated by an ocean.
>>
>>
>>>I think I know
>>>by now what is acceptable as far as a foot brake is concerned, and as it
>>>stands, the foot brake on my car is too sensitive.
>>
>>
>> Then put the heel of your brake foot on the floor and use it for
>> leverage and to modulate the pressure.
>> --
>> C.R. Krieger
>>
>
> Thanks. I weas going to say that but decided I would be wasting my breath
> on such an experienced driver... ;-)

Not at all. We can all learn from others, but I object to snide patronising
comments from those who have no idea of my driving experience.
Apparently some posters can't accept that others might have a different
opinion, and feel the need to denigrate them in some way.
Mike.