AAAARGH! Starting/running problems in 88 Jetta GLI

Okay. I'm now having some starting/running issues. I noticed last night
a little sputter while I was driving. I noticed another this morning on
a short but steepish incline.

Then, I replaced my clutch/brake pedal bracket. In the process I
disconnected dashboard wiring, removed the air duct behind the steering
wheel, pulled two relays that were in the way, and disconnected the
plugs of a large wiring harness located near the heater core. I put
everything back together.

I started the car, and it ran fine for about two or three minutes while
I adjusted the clutch cable. Then, I backed out and drove around the
lot a bit, and it died on me, kind of breathily. I got it started, it
ran poorly, I parked it, it died. My first thought was that, the clutch
needed some adjustment. So I did that, put the car in neutral, and
tried to start it again (on a slight incline). It just cranked and
cranked, but no start. I disconnected the ignition control unit for a
few minutes, then plugged it back in. It started again, but died.

I thought maybe I ran it out of gas, which could explain the previous
sputters. I added a gallon. It started up again. I thought it was good,
then I tried to drive it around the lot again. It acted up, got
breathy, and quit. I started it successfully again, put in neutral and
gave it gas. It was sputtery and back fired a couple of times. Once
really loudly, and a white puff of smoke issued from the front of the
car near the air intake.

Are these symptoms of not having enough gas or running the car out of
gas? Did I screw something up by unplugging things? Everything else
(lights, radio, wipers, etc.) work.

Help!

Maxine

16V engine?
What is "kind of breathily"?

You should make sure that you have both fuel pumps working and fuel coming
out of the injectors, at least one of them.
Make sure you have proper spark.
How is that large intake boot? Got a crack in it too?

--
later,
dave
(One out of many daves)

"Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Okay. I'm now having some starting/running issues. I noticed last night
> a little sputter while I was driving. I noticed another this morning on
> a short but steepish incline.
>
> Then, I replaced my clutch/brake pedal bracket. In the process I
> disconnected dashboard wiring, removed the air duct behind the steering
> wheel, pulled two relays that were in the way, and disconnected the
> plugs of a large wiring harness located near the heater core. I put
> everything back together.
>
> I started the car, and it ran fine for about two or three minutes while
> I adjusted the clutch cable. Then, I backed out and drove around the
> lot a bit, and it died on me, kind of breathily. I got it started, it
> ran poorly, I parked it, it died. My first thought was that, the clutch
> needed some adjustment. So I did that, put the car in neutral, and
> tried to start it again (on a slight incline). It just cranked and
> cranked, but no start. I disconnected the ignition control unit for a
> few minutes, then plugged it back in. It started again, but died.
>
> I thought maybe I ran it out of gas, which could explain the previous
> sputters. I added a gallon. It started up again. I thought it was good,
> then I tried to drive it around the lot again. It acted up, got
> breathy, and quit. I started it successfully again, put in neutral and
> gave it gas. It was sputtery and back fired a couple of times. Once
> really loudly, and a white puff of smoke issued from the front of the
> car near the air intake.
>
> Are these symptoms of not having enough gas or running the car out of
> gas? Did I screw something up by unplugging things? Everything else
> (lights, radio, wipers, etc.) work.
>
> Help!
>
> Maxine
>

"Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Okay. I'm now having some starting/running issues. I noticed last night
> a little sputter while I was driving. I noticed another this morning on
> a short but steepish incline.
>
> Then, I replaced my clutch/brake pedal bracket. In the process I
> disconnected dashboard wiring, removed the air duct behind the steering
> wheel, pulled two relays that were in the way, and disconnected the
> plugs of a large wiring harness located near the heater core. I put
> everything back together.
>
> I started the car, and it ran fine for about two or three minutes while
> I adjusted the clutch cable. Then, I backed out and drove around the
> lot a bit, and it died on me, kind of breathily. I got it started, it
> ran poorly, I parked it, it died. My first thought was that, the clutch
> needed some adjustment. So I did that, put the car in neutral, and
> tried to start it again (on a slight incline). It just cranked and
> cranked, but no start. I disconnected the ignition control unit for a
> few minutes, then plugged it back in. It started again, but died.
>
> I thought maybe I ran it out of gas, which could explain the previous
> sputters. I added a gallon. It started up again. I thought it was good,
> then I tried to drive it around the lot again. It acted up, got
> breathy, and quit. I started it successfully again, put in neutral and
> gave it gas. It was sputtery and back fired a couple of times. Once
> really loudly, and a white puff of smoke issued from the front of the
> car near the air intake.
>
> Are these symptoms of not having enough gas or running the car out of
> gas? Did I screw something up by unplugging things? Everything else
> (lights, radio, wipers, etc.) work.
>
> Help!
>
> Maxine
>

Only wiring big wiring harness near the heater core in same year Fox is to
the computer/black box. Car will run very poorly or not at all if not
connected properly. The ground of the battery should be disconnected first
prior to connecting or disconnecting this wiring harness.
--
Jonny

> Then, I replaced my clutch/brake pedal bracket. In the process I
> disconnected dashboard wiring, removed the air duct behind the steering
> wheel, pulled two relays that were in the way, and disconnected the
> plugs of a large wiring harness located near the heater core. I put
> everything back together.

Replace the fuel filter if it has one, if not then fit one, sounds like your
sucking ****e up from your tank into your engine.

Not a bad idea. I do think I might have run out of gas and gas tank
****e might be contributing to the problem. My fuel gauge wasn't
reading empty, but I bet that doesn't count for much. I might also wait
to restart it until I can get a full tank of gas into it in the
morning.

Thanks,
Maxine

Joe wrote:
> > Then, I replaced my clutch/brake pedal bracket. In the process I
> > disconnected dashboard wiring, removed the air duct behind the steering
> > wheel, pulled two relays that were in the way, and disconnected the
> > plugs of a large wiring harness located near the heater core. I put
> > everything back together.
>
> Replace the fuel filter if it has one, if not then fit one, sounds like your
> sucking ****e up from your tank into your engine.

funny story time
I have a friend who was drilling a hole so she could hang a picture. Her
brother gave her his drill and 12" bit to use and she drill a hole all the
way through the house to the outside. She did have a frame house. We all
got a laugh out of that one.
So I had to ask to be sure! ;-)

Yours is the 16V engine right?

"Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Nope. The brake booster is miles (well, inches) away from where I
> drilled.
>
> I checked my air intake boots and vacuum hoses this afternoon. Even
> cleaned oil out of the venturi setup. It all looks good. I'm going to
> try again tomorrow morning before work. When it's cooler out. And I'm
> less cranky. And I have my wallet and can afford a tank of $3.29/gallon
> gasoline.
>
> :P
> Maxine
>
>
> One out of many Daves wrote:
>> you didn't drill a hole in your brake booster?
>>
>>
>> "Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> > The wiring harness connection I disconnected is a black, rectangular
>> > double-sidded plug with about 16 tab-type connectors in it. This
>> > connector clips to a little metal bracket just up behind the dash. I
>> > think the computer is on the opposite side of the heater core. I had
>> > the positive disconnected from the battery before beginning all this.
>> >
>> > I'm also planning on checking the air intake boots for leaks. It got
>> > late while I was working on the car, and I ran out of time at the shop
>> > (and it was really freakin' hot for Seattle). I will go back today and
>> > evaluate a bunch of stuff.
>> >
>> > FYI: I don't know how to describe "breathy" other than it sounded like
>> > the car lost back-pressure and kind of inhaled before it died.
>> >
>> > Do I need to reset some kind of electronic gizmo?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Maxine
>> >
>> > Jonny wrote:
>> >> "Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
>> >> oups.com...
>> >> > Okay. I'm now having some starting/running issues. I noticed last
>> >> > night
>> >> > a little sputter while I was driving. I noticed another this morning
>> >> > on
>> >> > a short but steepish incline.
>> >> >
>> >> > Then, I replaced my clutch/brake pedal bracket. In the process I
>> >> > disconnected dashboard wiring, removed the air duct behind the
>> >> > steering
>> >> > wheel, pulled two relays that were in the way, and disconnected the
>> >> > plugs of a large wiring harness located near the heater core. I put
>> >> > everything back together.
>> >> >
>> >> > I started the car, and it ran fine for about two or three minutes
>> >> > while
>> >> > I adjusted the clutch cable. Then, I backed out and drove around the
>> >> > lot a bit, and it died on me, kind of breathily. I got it started,
>> >> > it
>> >> > ran poorly, I parked it, it died. My first thought was that, the
>> >> > clutch
>> >> > needed some adjustment. So I did that, put the car in neutral, and
>> >> > tried to start it again (on a slight incline). It just cranked and
>> >> > cranked, but no start. I disconnected the ignition control unit for
>> >> > a
>> >> > few minutes, then plugged it back in. It started again, but died.
>> >> >
>> >> > I thought maybe I ran it out of gas, which could explain the
>> >> > previous
>> >> > sputters. I added a gallon. It started up again. I thought it was
>> >> > good,
>> >> > then I tried to drive it around the lot again. It acted up, got
>> >> > breathy, and quit. I started it successfully again, put in neutral
>> >> > and
>> >> > gave it gas. It was sputtery and back fired a couple of times. Once
>> >> > really loudly, and a white puff of smoke issued from the front of
>> >> > the
>> >> > car near the air intake.
>> >> >
>> >> > Are these symptoms of not having enough gas or running the car out
>> >> > of
>> >> > gas? Did I screw something up by unplugging things? Everything else
>> >> > (lights, radio, wipers, etc.) work.
>> >> >
>> >> > Help!
>> >> >
>> >> > Maxine
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Only wiring big wiring harness near the heater core in same year Fox
>> >> is
>> >> to
>> >> the computer/black box. Car will run very poorly or not at all if not
>> >> connected properly. The ground of the battery should be disconnected
>> >> first
>> >> prior to connecting or disconnecting this wiring harness.
>> >> --
>> >> Jonny
>> >
>

EUREKA!

Okay, problem solved. I was indeed out of gas. The owner's manual that
came with the car said I had a 14 gallon gas tank. Apparently I have a
10 gallon gas tank. Calculations of gas mileage (from the digital
thingie on the dash) plus my odometer didin't pan out for 14 gallons.
Plus the gauge must be a little off. This was also confirmed when I
filled the remainder of the tank. Good to know.

So I bet it didn't run well because I must have soaked the sparkplugs
with what was left in the gas lines. I filled the tank with mid-grade
gas (at $3.44/gallon - ow), and it had been sitting about 30 hours. It
fired up pretty well, but fired on only 3 cylinders. I ordered new
spark plug wires ($200 -ow ow!) thinking they may be part of the
problem.

I drove it to work and back. When I went up some steep hills, it bucked
again. Pretty badly. It also got really hot, which I controlled by
turning on the defroster and with the heat and fans on (which is
AWESOME when it's 90 degrees out). I thought my feet were going to melt
onto the heater core. I made it back to the shop.

When I pulled plug wire 3, a splatter of oil came with it. The damn
plug hole had about 1/4 inch deep puddle of oil in it, and the plug
wire cap was cracked.

New plugs and wires fixed the symptoms for now. I'll have to watch that
plug hole and clean it every now and then until I can change the valve
cover gasket. The car runs like a dream now, and seems to no longer be
running hot. Just in time for the cool weather snap.

An interesting aside (just in case you didn't know): The plug wires are
in seemingly opposite order from what all the books at my mechanic's
shop say for this car. But they still fire 1-3-4-2. The reason, we
think, is that the rotor spins counterclockwise, not clockwise. Sheesh.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Maxine


One out of many Daves wrote:
> funny story time
> I have a friend who was drilling a hole so she could hang a picture. Her
> brother gave her his drill and 12" bit to use and she drill a hole all the
> way through the house to the outside. She did have a frame house. We all
> got a laugh out of that one.
> So I had to ask to be sure! ;-)
>
> Yours is the 16V engine right?
>
> "Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Nope. The brake booster is miles (well, inches) away from where I
> > drilled.
> >
> > I checked my air intake boots and vacuum hoses this afternoon. Even
> > cleaned oil out of the venturi setup. It all looks good. I'm going to
> > try again tomorrow morning before work. When it's cooler out. And I'm
> > less cranky. And I have my wallet and can afford a tank of $3.29/gallon
> > gasoline.
> >
> > :P
> > Maxine
> >
> >
> > One out of many Daves wrote:
> >> you didn't drill a hole in your brake booster?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
> >> ups.com...
> >> > The wiring harness connection I disconnected is a black, rectangular
> >> > double-sidded plug with about 16 tab-type connectors in it. This
> >> > connector clips to a little metal bracket just up behind the dash. I
> >> > think the computer is on the opposite side of the heater core. I had
> >> > the positive disconnected from the battery before beginning all this.
> >> >
> >> > I'm also planning on checking the air intake boots for leaks. It got
> >> > late while I was working on the car, and I ran out of time at the shop
> >> > (and it was really freakin' hot for Seattle). I will go back today and
> >> > evaluate a bunch of stuff.
> >> >
> >> > FYI: I don't know how to describe "breathy" other than it sounded like
> >> > the car lost back-pressure and kind of inhaled before it died.
> >> >
> >> > Do I need to reset some kind of electronic gizmo?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Maxine
> >> >
> >> > Jonny wrote:
> >> >> "Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
> >> >> oups.com...
> >> >> > Okay. I'm now having some starting/running issues. I noticed last
> >> >> > night
> >> >> > a little sputter while I was driving. I noticed another this morning
> >> >> > on
> >> >> > a short but steepish incline.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Then, I replaced my clutch/brake pedal bracket. In the process I
> >> >> > disconnected dashboard wiring, removed the air duct behind the
> >> >> > steering
> >> >> > wheel, pulled two relays that were in the way, and disconnected the
> >> >> > plugs of a large wiring harness located near the heater core. I put
> >> >> > everything back together.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I started the car, and it ran fine for about two or three minutes
> >> >> > while
> >> >> > I adjusted the clutch cable. Then, I backed out and drove around the
> >> >> > lot a bit, and it died on me, kind of breathily. I got it started,
> >> >> > it
> >> >> > ran poorly, I parked it, it died. My first thought was that, the
> >> >> > clutch
> >> >> > needed some adjustment. So I did that, put the car in neutral, and
> >> >> > tried to start it again (on a slight incline). It just cranked and
> >> >> > cranked, but no start. I disconnected the ignition control unit for
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > few minutes, then plugged it back in. It started again, but died.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I thought maybe I ran it out of gas, which could explain the
> >> >> > previous
> >> >> > sputters. I added a gallon. It started up again. I thought it was
> >> >> > good,
> >> >> > then I tried to drive it around the lot again. It acted up, got
> >> >> > breathy, and quit. I started it successfully again, put in neutral
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > gave it gas. It was sputtery and back fired a couple of times. Once
> >> >> > really loudly, and a white puff of smoke issued from the front of
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > car near the air intake.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Are these symptoms of not having enough gas or running the car out
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > gas? Did I screw something up by unplugging things? Everything else
> >> >> > (lights, radio, wipers, etc.) work.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Help!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Maxine
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Only wiring big wiring harness near the heater core in same year Fox
> >> >> is
> >> >> to
> >> >> the computer/black box. Car will run very poorly or not at all if not
> >> >> connected properly. The ground of the battery should be disconnected
> >> >> first
> >> >> prior to connecting or disconnecting this wiring harness.
> >> >> --
> >> >> Jonny
> >> >
> >

"Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> When I pulled plug wire 3, a splatter of oil came with it. The
> damn plug hole had about 1/4 inch deep puddle of oil in it,
> and the plug wire cap was cracked.

Had the same problem with my 16V Scirocco. Two of the plug wells were full of
oil. I replaced the valve cover gasket and discovered that whoever did the job
the last time had fouled up the O rings on those two plugs. One was partially
in and partially out of the indent meant to keep them aligned, and the other
had a small section just plain missing.

- Bill

btw, I liked the drilling story. I can definitely tell you that the
drill bit didn't come out quite where I expected. And yes, it is the
16V GLI.



One out of many Daves wrote:
> funny story time
> I have a friend who was drilling a hole so she could hang a picture. Her
> brother gave her his drill and 12" bit to use and she drill a hole all the
> way through the house to the outside. She did have a frame house. We all
> got a laugh out of that one.
> So I had to ask to be sure! ;-)
>
> Yours is the 16V engine right?
>
> "Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Nope. The brake booster is miles (well, inches) away from where I
> > drilled.
> >
> > I checked my air intake boots and vacuum hoses this afternoon. Even
> > cleaned oil out of the venturi setup. It all looks good. I'm going to
> > try again tomorrow morning before work. When it's cooler out. And I'm
> > less cranky. And I have my wallet and can afford a tank of $3.29/gallon
> > gasoline.
> >
> > :P
> > Maxine
> >
> >
> > One out of many Daves wrote:
> >> you didn't drill a hole in your brake booster?
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
> >> ups.com...
> >> > The wiring harness connection I disconnected is a black, rectangular
> >> > double-sidded plug with about 16 tab-type connectors in it. This
> >> > connector clips to a little metal bracket just up behind the dash. I
> >> > think the computer is on the opposite side of the heater core. I had
> >> > the positive disconnected from the battery before beginning all this.
> >> >
> >> > I'm also planning on checking the air intake boots for leaks. It got
> >> > late while I was working on the car, and I ran out of time at the shop
> >> > (and it was really freakin' hot for Seattle). I will go back today and
> >> > evaluate a bunch of stuff.
> >> >
> >> > FYI: I don't know how to describe "breathy" other than it sounded like
> >> > the car lost back-pressure and kind of inhaled before it died.
> >> >
> >> > Do I need to reset some kind of electronic gizmo?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Maxine
> >> >
> >> > Jonny wrote:
> >> >> "Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
> >> >> oups.com...
> >> >> > Okay. I'm now having some starting/running issues. I noticed last
> >> >> > night
> >> >> > a little sputter while I was driving. I noticed another this morning
> >> >> > on
> >> >> > a short but steepish incline.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Then, I replaced my clutch/brake pedal bracket. In the process I
> >> >> > disconnected dashboard wiring, removed the air duct behind the
> >> >> > steering
> >> >> > wheel, pulled two relays that were in the way, and disconnected the
> >> >> > plugs of a large wiring harness located near the heater core. I put
> >> >> > everything back together.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I started the car, and it ran fine for about two or three minutes
> >> >> > while
> >> >> > I adjusted the clutch cable. Then, I backed out and drove around the
> >> >> > lot a bit, and it died on me, kind of breathily. I got it started,
> >> >> > it
> >> >> > ran poorly, I parked it, it died. My first thought was that, the
> >> >> > clutch
> >> >> > needed some adjustment. So I did that, put the car in neutral, and
> >> >> > tried to start it again (on a slight incline). It just cranked and
> >> >> > cranked, but no start. I disconnected the ignition control unit for
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > few minutes, then plugged it back in. It started again, but died.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I thought maybe I ran it out of gas, which could explain the
> >> >> > previous
> >> >> > sputters. I added a gallon. It started up again. I thought it was
> >> >> > good,
> >> >> > then I tried to drive it around the lot again. It acted up, got
> >> >> > breathy, and quit. I started it successfully again, put in neutral
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > gave it gas. It was sputtery and back fired a couple of times. Once
> >> >> > really loudly, and a white puff of smoke issued from the front of
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > car near the air intake.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Are these symptoms of not having enough gas or running the car out
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > gas? Did I screw something up by unplugging things? Everything else
> >> >> > (lights, radio, wipers, etc.) work.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Help!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Maxine
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Only wiring big wiring harness near the heater core in same year Fox
> >> >> is
> >> >> to
> >> >> the computer/black box. Car will run very poorly or not at all if not
> >> >> connected properly. The ground of the battery should be disconnected
> >> >> first
> >> >> prior to connecting or disconnecting this wiring harness.
> >> >> --
> >> >> Jonny
> >> >
> >

I'll be sure to watch for that issue with the o-rings when I get there.
I hope you got your money back on the gasket replacement.
Maxine

William J. Leary Jr. wrote:
> "Mad Maxine" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> > When I pulled plug wire 3, a splatter of oil came with it. The
> > damn plug hole had about 1/4 inch deep puddle of oil in it,
> > and the plug wire cap was cracked.
>
> Had the same problem with my 16V Scirocco. Two of the plug wells were full of
> oil. I replaced the valve cover gasket and discovered that whoever did the job
> the last time had fouled up the O rings on those two plugs. One was partially
> in and partially out of the indent meant to keep them aligned, and the other
> had a small section just plain missing.
>
> - Bill