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Tyres: Best foot forward? or back?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 12th 04, 02:58 PM
Buzzardous Cross
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Posts: n/a
Default Tyres: Best foot forward? or back?

Hi Guys,
Have seen quite a lot of good info 'bout tyres on this group. And a
few times it's been mentioned that on FWD cars, it's best to have the
better pair of tyres at the rear.
Firstly, is that the general opinion of the Alfisti on this group?
Second, anybody got an idea why this is so?

Reason I ask:
I've always thought the opposite was true i.e. the better pair should
go in front cause:
a. in daily driving, your need for traction/grip is greatest when you
have to slam your brakes in an emergency - and that requires most grip
in the front...otherwise you'll have less braking force before your
ABS kicks in
b. it's harder to correct a front wheel skid than a rear wheel skid =>
put the "skid prone" tyres at the back.

BC
156 Seles
Ads
  #2  
Old August 12th 04, 03:51 PM
Alfistagj
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Buzzardous Cross" > schreef in bericht
om...
> Hi Guys,
> Have seen quite a lot of good info 'bout tyres on this group. And a
> few times it's been mentioned that on FWD cars, it's best to have the
> better pair of tyres at the rear.
> Firstly, is that the general opinion of the Alfisti on this group?


From earlier discussions: NO

> Second, anybody got an idea why this is so?
>


Yes

> Reason I ask:
> I've always thought the opposite was true i.e. the better pair should
> go in front cause:
> a. in daily driving, your need for traction/grip is greatest when you
> have to slam your brakes in an emergency - and that requires most grip
> in the front...otherwise you'll have less braking force before your
> ABS kicks in
> b. it's harder to correct a front wheel skid than a rear wheel skid =>
> put the "skid prone" tyres at the back.
>
> BC
> 156 Seles


In principle you are right, but that is also the reason why you are wrong.
That traction is important for braking as well as accelerating is very true,
but slips normally don't occur during normal accelerating or braking, but
when driving at a more or less constant speed in a curve or in aquaplaning
or when /after you switch lanes etc.

Most important reason is active safety for the "normal"driver and under
normal circumstances..
It's not the fact that it's harder or not to correct a front or rear slip,
but the fact that you will have a lot more time to notice a front slip than
a back slip.
Assuming you are driving forward (!), when you get a front slip, the front
of the car will be in front of you; you can see it coming and have time to
do things to avoid it.
The first moment you notice a rear wheel slip is when you see the rear of
the car in front of you, leaving no more time to correct; you are back front
all ready.
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)




  #3  
Old August 12th 04, 03:54 PM
Tom Boltwood
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Posts: n/a
Default



> From: (Buzzardous Cross)
> Organization:
http://groups.google.com
> Newsgroups: alt.autos.alfa-romeo
> Date: 12 Aug 2004 06:58:22 -0700
> Subject: Tyres: Best foot forward? or back?
>
> Hi Guys,
> Have seen quite a lot of good info 'bout tyres on this group. And a
> few times it's been mentioned that on FWD cars, it's best to have the
> better pair of tyres at the rear.
> Firstly, is that the general opinion of the Alfisti on this group?
> Second, anybody got an idea why this is so?
>
> Reason I ask:
> I've always thought the opposite was true i.e. the better pair should
> go in front cause:
> a. in daily driving, your need for traction/grip is greatest when you
> have to slam your brakes in an emergency - and that requires most grip
> in the front...otherwise you'll have less braking force before your
> ABS kicks in
> b. it's harder to correct a front wheel skid than a rear wheel skid =>
> put the "skid prone" tyres at the back.
>
> BC
> 156 Seles


Common thought is that it is better to have the better tyres on the back of
a front wheel drive car as you have no control over the back wheels and so
you want them to be less likely to skid.

Personally, however I prefer the better tyres on the front. For me, the
understeer on the front with bad tyres makes driving more difficult and
dangerous. Also, if the front wheels are the only wheels you have control
over, I'd rather the grip was on them.

It seems to be something people are fairly divided on, although most agree
with the 'correct' theory which is good tyres on the back. I, however,
disagree.

  #4  
Old August 12th 04, 06:02 PM
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alfistagj wrote:

> "Buzzardous Cross" > schreef in bericht
> om...
>> Hi Guys,
>> Have seen quite a lot of good info 'bout tyres on this group. And a
>> few times it's been mentioned that on FWD cars, it's best to have the
>> better pair of tyres at the rear.
>> Firstly, is that the general opinion of the Alfisti on this group?

>
> From earlier discussions: NO
>
>> Second, anybody got an idea why this is so?
>>

>
> Yes
>
>> Reason I ask:
>> I've always thought the opposite was true i.e. the better pair should
>> go in front cause:
>> a. in daily driving, your need for traction/grip is greatest when you
>> have to slam your brakes in an emergency - and that requires most grip
>> in the front...otherwise you'll have less braking force before your
>> ABS kicks in
>> b. it's harder to correct a front wheel skid than a rear wheel skid =>
>> put the "skid prone" tyres at the back.
>>
>> BC
>> 156 Seles

>
> In principle you are right, but that is also the reason why you are wrong.
> That traction is important for braking as well as accelerating is very
> true, but slips normally don't occur during normal accelerating or
> braking, but when driving at a more or less constant speed in a curve or
> in aquaplaning or when /after you switch lanes etc.
>
> Most important reason is active safety for the "normal"driver and under
> normal circumstances..
> It's not the fact that it's harder or not to correct a front or rear slip,
> but the fact that you will have a lot more time to notice a front slip
> than a back slip.
> Assuming you are driving forward (!), when you get a front slip, the front
> of the car will be in front of you; you can see it coming and have time to
> do things to avoid it.
> The first moment you notice a rear wheel slip is when you see the rear of
> the car in front of you, leaving no more time to correct; you are back
> front all ready.


I'd go with this. Plus, as was explained to me: Understeer means you hit
the secenery forwards, oversteer you're doing it sideways


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #5  
Old August 12th 04, 09:20 PM
Alfistagj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Catman" > schreef in bericht
...
> Alfistagj wrote:
>
> I'd go with this. Plus, as was explained to me: Understeer means you hit
> the secenery forwards, oversteer you're doing it sideways
>


Isn't "backways" a better description than "sideways"??

>
> --
> Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
> Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
> Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
> Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
> www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk



--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)


  #6  
Old August 12th 04, 09:23 PM
Alfistagj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Tom Boltwood" > schreef in bericht
...
>
>
> It seems to be something people are fairly divided on, although most agree
> with the 'correct' theory which is good tyres on the back. I, however,
> disagree.
>


Reading all the posts back (including my own): Isn't the best way out of
this discussion to just see to it that all 4 tyres are 100% o.k. (that's
over 4mm profile depth)
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Alfa red 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)



  #7  
Old August 12th 04, 09:48 PM
Hughes.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
(Buzzardous Cross) wrote:

> Hi Guys,
> Have seen quite a lot of good info 'bout tyres on this group. And a
> few times it's been mentioned that on FWD cars, it's best to have the
> better pair of tyres at the rear.
> Firstly, is that the general opinion of the Alfisti on this group?
> Second, anybody got an idea why this is so?
>
> Reason I ask:
> I've always thought the opposite was true i.e. the better pair should
> go in front cause:
> a. in daily driving, your need for traction/grip is greatest when you
> have to slam your brakes in an emergency - and that requires most grip
> in the front...otherwise you'll have less braking force before your
> ABS kicks in
> b. it's harder to correct a front wheel skid than a rear wheel skid =>
> put the "skid prone" tyres at the back.
>
> BC
> 156 Seles


Well ideally, you want good tyres all round. That said in the past I thought it
better to have the grip at the end doing the driving/steering. That is until the
horrible Ventus tyres I had on the back of the Corolla Gti-16 I owned at the
time swapped ends and stuffed me into a wall when I had to lift off in a hurry.

Lift off understeer is an evil thing and you want tyres that aren't going to
break traction easily under lateral forces. ABS and traction control can return
grip to a tyre that is skidding forwards, but there is next to nothing they can
do for one that is travelling sideways, and this is more likely to put you in
danger when it happens at the back in a front wheel drive car.

In power understeer situations or situations where the front tyres plough on
when you are trying to brake and steer at the same time steering and control can
be regained by lifting off or momentarily releasing the brakes (if the ABS isn't
up to the job)

This is more a problem for hatchbacks than saloons though, I've never come
anywhere near having lift off understeer in my 156 in spite of my enthusiastic
driving style, but then I do have Goodyear Eagle F1's at each corner and can
heartily recommend them.

--
I Amuse (I am Hughes.)
Judge Nutmeg in #Digi

1998 156 2.0 TS Sport
  #8  
Old August 12th 04, 09:48 PM
Catman
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Posts: n/a
Default

Alfistagj wrote:

>
> "Catman" > schreef in bericht
> ...
>> Alfistagj wrote:
>>
>> I'd go with this. Plus, as was explained to me: Understeer means you
>> hit the secenery forwards, oversteer you're doing it sideways
>>

>
> Isn't "backways" a better description than "sideways"??
>


Depends how fast you do it

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #9  
Old August 12th 04, 10:17 PM
Catman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alfistagj wrote:

>
> "Tom Boltwood" > schreef in bericht
> ...
>>
>>
>> It seems to be something people are fairly divided on, although most
>> agree with the 'correct' theory which is good tyres on the back. I,
>> however, disagree.
>>

>
> Reading all the posts back (including my own): Isn't the best way out of
> this discussion to just see to it that all 4 tyres are 100% o.k. (that's
> over 4mm profile depth)


But they way I drive means the fronts on the Sprint don't keep 4mm for very
long
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #10  
Old August 13th 04, 02:34 AM
Buzzardous Cross
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Alfistagj" > wrote in message news:<2ELSc.5405$vH5.5312@amstwist00>...
> "Buzzardous Cross" > schreef in bericht
> om...
> > Hi Guys,
> > Have seen quite a lot of good info 'bout tyres on this group. And a
> > few times it's been mentioned that on FWD cars, it's best to have the
> > better pair of tyres at the rear.
> > Firstly, is that the general opinion of the Alfisti on this group?

>
> From earlier discussions: NO
>
> > Second, anybody got an idea why this is so?
> >

>
> Yes
>
> > Reason I ask:
> > I've always thought the opposite was true i.e. the better pair should
> > go in front cause:
> > a. in daily driving, your need for traction/grip is greatest when you
> > have to slam your brakes in an emergency - and that requires most grip
> > in the front...otherwise you'll have less braking force before your
> > ABS kicks in
> > b. it's harder to correct a front wheel skid than a rear wheel skid =>
> > put the "skid prone" tyres at the back.
> >
> > BC
> > 156 Seles

>
> In principle you are right, but that is also the reason why you are wrong.
> That traction is important for braking as well as accelerating is very true,
> but slips normally don't occur during normal accelerating or braking, but
> when driving at a more or less constant speed in a curve or in aquaplaning
> or when /after you switch lanes etc.
>
> Most important reason is active safety for the "normal"driver and under
> normal circumstances..
> It's not the fact that it's harder or not to correct a front or rear slip,
> but the fact that you will have a lot more time to notice a front slip than
> a back slip.
> Assuming you are driving forward (!), when you get a front slip, the front
> of the car will be in front of you; you can see it coming and have time to
> do things to avoid it.
> The first moment you notice a rear wheel slip is when you see the rear of
> the car in front of you, leaving no more time to correct; you are back front
> all ready.


Thanks. Can't argue with that logic...especially because it serves the
safety interests of the "normal" driver

BC
 




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