Honda's official word on "flushing"

From the February '06 issues of Honda and Acura Service News, Honda's
official newsletters to Honda and Acura dealers:

Flush Systems: A Big Taboo
In Honda/Acura vehicles, the transmission, as well as the systems that
handle lubrication, cooling, fuel, and power steering, are designed to give
thousands of miles of trouble-free service if you follow the maintenance
schedule to the letter.

Flush systems are a popular aftermarket offering these days. These products
look impressive and make lots of claims, but American Honda strongly
recommends you avoid using them on any Honda/Acura vehicle. Here’s why:

* The maintenance schedule neither requires nor approves of aftermarket
flush systems.
* Flush systems take time to do; this adds to your service client’s wait
time.
* Flush systems haven’t demonstrated an improvement in vehicle performance
or reliability.
* Flush systems using solvents may leave solvent in the system you’re
flushing. This will dilute the fluid or lubricant and degrade its
performance.
* Flush systems using filters can filter out vital additives and degrade
the fluid’s or lubricant’s performance. This is particularly true for
coolant.
* Any damage caused by flush systems isn’t covered by warranty.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger wrote:
> From the February '06 issues of Honda and Acura Service News, Honda's
> official newsletters to Honda and Acura dealers:
>
> Flush Systems: A Big Taboo
> In Honda/Acura vehicles, the transmission, as well as the systems that
> handle lubrication, cooling, fuel, and power steering, are designed to give
> thousands of miles of trouble-free service if you follow the maintenance
> schedule to the letter.
>
> Flush systems are a popular aftermarket offering these days. These products
> look impressive and make lots of claims, but American Honda strongly
> recommends you avoid using them on any Honda/Acura vehicle. Here’s why:
>
> * The maintenance schedule neither requires nor approves of aftermarket
> flush systems.
> * Flush systems take time to do; this adds to your service client’s wait
> time.
> * Flush systems haven’t demonstrated an improvement in vehicle performance
> or reliability.
> * Flush systems using solvents may leave solvent in the system you’re
> flushing. This will dilute the fluid or lubricant and degrade its
> performance.
> * Flush systems using filters can filter out vital additives and degrade
> the fluid’s or lubricant’s performance. This is particularly true for
> coolant.
> * Any damage caused by flush systems isn’t covered by warranty.
>
----------------------

And they didn't even mention the most important / expensive reasons: The
goofs at your local Monkey Lube will hook up the hoses backwards and
flush the contents of the internal transmission filter throughout your
tranny, then refill it with Dexron or something else that will further
help to destroy your new tranny :-(

'Curly'

"motsco_" > wrote in message
...
> Tegger wrote:
> > From the February '06 issues of Honda and Acura Service News, Honda's
> > official newsletters to Honda and Acura dealers:
> >
> > Flush Systems: A Big Taboo
> > In Honda/Acura vehicles, the transmission, as well as the systems that
> > handle lubrication, cooling, fuel, and power steering, are designed to
give
> > thousands of miles of trouble-free service if you follow the maintenance
> > schedule to the letter.
> >
> > Flush systems are a popular aftermarket offering these days. These
products
> > look impressive and make lots of claims, but American Honda strongly
> > recommends you avoid using them on any Honda/Acura vehicle. Here’s why:
> >
> > * The maintenance schedule neither requires nor approves of aftermarket
> > flush systems.
> > * Flush systems take time to do; this adds to your service client’s wait
> > time.
> > * Flush systems haven’t demonstrated an improvement in vehicle
performance
> > or reliability.
> > * Flush systems using solvents may leave solvent in the system you’re
> > flushing. This will dilute the fluid or lubricant and degrade its
> > performance.
> > * Flush systems using filters can filter out vital additives and degrade
> > the fluid’s or lubricant’s performance. This is particularly true for
> > coolant.
> > * Any damage caused by flush systems isn’t covered by warranty.
> >
> ----------------------
>
> And they didn't even mention the most important / expensive reasons: The
> goofs at your local Monkey Lube will hook up the hoses backwards and
> flush the contents of the internal transmission filter throughout your
> tranny, then refill it with Dexron or something else that will further
> help to destroy your new tranny :-(
>
> 'Curly'

The owner's manual for our CR-V says to change the transmission fluid three
times, driving between each time. That's a lot of transmission fluid,
especially if you have to pay "Honda Genuine" prices for it. I don't know,
we bought the vehicle used at 100,000 miles, and it seems to have been well
maintained, but the tranny fluid looked black in the drain pan although it
looked good on the dipstick.

Earle

Earle Horton wrote:
>> And they didn't even mention the most important / expensive reasons: The
>> goofs at your local Monkey Lube will hook up the hoses backwards and
>> flush the contents of the internal transmission filter throughout your
>> tranny, then refill it with Dexron or something else that will further
>> help to destroy your new tranny :-(
>>
>> 'Curly'
>
> The owner's manual for our CR-V says to change the transmission fluid three
> times, driving between each time. That's a lot of transmission fluid,
> especially if you have to pay "Honda Genuine" prices for it. I don't know,
> we bought the vehicle used at 100,000 miles, and it seems to have been well
> maintained, but the tranny fluid looked black in the drain pan although it
> looked good on the dipstick.
>
> Earle

---------------------------------

I always ask people to wipe the dipstick on a piece of white paper to
determine the color better. I've owned four used CR-V's and I did the
triple drain-n-fill on all of them. I think it's cheap insurance in case
the last owner may have neglected the tranny.

What's the cost of a few bottles of Z1 compared to replacing a
reamed-out tranny?

P.S. Did you replace the Dual Pump Fluid in the rear differential too?
30,000 miles is the correct interval... At least you only need one
litre. :-)

'Curly'

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article >,
> "Earle Horton" > wrote:
>
>> The owner's manual for our CR-V says to change the transmission fluid three
>> times, driving between each time.
>
> That is Honda's official recommendation for a "flush". That is, the
> drain/fill/drive/ cycles help get more of the original fluid out than a
> simple drain. But such a procedure is not what they recommend for
> maintenance.
>
> Honda's specification for regular maintenance merely states a drain and
> fill.

----------------------------------

Granted, but if you have NO IDEA whether the previous owner ever changed
it for 100,000 miles, or overheated it, or got water in it, it makes
sense to 'start fresh' as you can, No?

'Curly'

"motsco_" > wrote in message
...
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "Earle Horton" > wrote:
> >
> >> The owner's manual for our CR-V says to change the transmission fluid
three
> >> times, driving between each time.
> >
> > That is Honda's official recommendation for a "flush". That is, the
> > drain/fill/drive/ cycles help get more of the original fluid out than a
> > simple drain. But such a procedure is not what they recommend for
> > maintenance.
> >
> > Honda's specification for regular maintenance merely states a drain and
> > fill.
>
> ----------------------------------
>
> Granted, but if you have NO IDEA whether the previous owner ever
> changed it for 100,000 miles, or overheated it, or got water in it, it
> makes sense to 'start fresh' as you can, No?
>
I agree, and I did change the dual pump fluid too. Where to get Z1 at a
good price? I live about 120 miles from one Honda dealer, 135 from the
other next closest one.

Thanks,

Earle

"motsco_" > wrote in message
...
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >> And they didn't even mention the most important / expensive reasons:
The
> >> goofs at your local Monkey Lube will hook up the hoses backwards and
> >> flush the contents of the internal transmission filter throughout your
> >> tranny, then refill it with Dexron or something else that will further
> >> help to destroy your new tranny :-(
> >>
> >> 'Curly'
> >
> > The owner's manual for our CR-V says to change the transmission fluid
three
> > times, driving between each time. That's a lot of transmission fluid,
> > especially if you have to pay "Honda Genuine" prices for it. I don't
know,
> > we bought the vehicle used at 100,000 miles, and it seems to have been
well
> > maintained, but the tranny fluid looked black in the drain pan although
it
> > looked good on the dipstick.
> >
> > Earle
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> I always ask people to wipe the dipstick on a piece of white paper to
> determine the color better. I've owned four used CR-V's and I did the
> triple drain-n-fill on all of them. I think it's cheap insurance in case
> the last owner may have neglected the tranny.
>
> What's the cost of a few bottles of Z1 compared to replacing a
> reamed-out tranny?
>
> P.S. Did you replace the Dual Pump Fluid in the rear differential too?
> 30,000 miles is the correct interval... At least you only need one
> litre. :-)
>
Yeah. Clean as a whistle, but why not believe the owner's manual when you
have spent a ridiculous amount of money for a used vehicle, just because it
is a Honda? That rear diff. looks expensive. That tranny does too. Cheap
sources for Z1, or thoughts on using Dexron for the first two changes?

Cheers,

Earle

Earle Horton wrote:
> "motsco_" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Earle Horton wrote:
>>>> And they didn't even mention the most important / expensive reasons:
> The
>>>> goofs at your local Monkey Lube will hook up the hoses backwards and
>>>> flush the contents of the internal transmission filter throughout your
>>>> tranny, then refill it with Dexron or something else that will further
>>>> help to destroy your new tranny :-(
>>>>
>>>> 'Curly'
>>> The owner's manual for our CR-V says to change the transmission fluid
> three
>>> times, driving between each time. That's a lot of transmission fluid,
>>> especially if you have to pay "Honda Genuine" prices for it. I don't
> know,
>>> we bought the vehicle used at 100,000 miles, and it seems to have been
> well
>>> maintained, but the tranny fluid looked black in the drain pan although
> it
>>> looked good on the dipstick.
>>>
>>> Earle
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>> I always ask people to wipe the dipstick on a piece of white paper to
>> determine the color better. I've owned four used CR-V's and I did the
>> triple drain-n-fill on all of them. I think it's cheap insurance in case
>> the last owner may have neglected the tranny.
>>
>> What's the cost of a few bottles of Z1 compared to replacing a
>> reamed-out tranny?
>>
>> P.S. Did you replace the Dual Pump Fluid in the rear differential too?
>> 30,000 miles is the correct interval... At least you only need one
>> litre. :-)
>>
> Yeah. Clean as a whistle, but why not believe the owner's manual when you
> have spent a ridiculous amount of money for a used vehicle, just because it
> is a Honda? That rear diff. looks expensive. That tranny does too. Cheap
> sources for Z1, or thoughts on using Dexron for the first two changes?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Earle

----------------------------------

I run Z1 in my rear differentials. I'm totally convinced it's the same
stuff. In some countries you can't get DPF, so the dealers just sell Z1
and everything works OK. I have the choice of three dealers but Z1 still
expensive.

For the tranny, Dexron for the first drain-n-fill would be OK, I'm
thinking, but Z1 for the next two, for sure. I drain it very patiently.
I think Z1 just has a few essential additives, but is probably just
Dexron otherwise.

'Curly'

> For the tranny, Dexron for the first drain-n-fill would be OK, I'm
> thinking, but Z1 for the next two, for sure. I drain it very patiently. I
> think Z1 just has a few essential additives, but is probably just Dexron
> otherwise.

How long to drive between the drain-n-fills ?

fvckH1B wrote:
>> For the tranny, Dexron for the first drain-n-fill would be OK, I'm
>> thinking, but Z1 for the next two, for sure. I drain it very patiently. I
>> think Z1 just has a few essential additives, but is probably just Dexron
>> otherwise.
>
> How long to drive between the drain-n-fills ?

------------------------------------

The shop manual says you can just run it through the gears for a few
minutes, sitting still. If you drive it until next weekend you get more
magnetic particles (fuzz) on the recently cleaned magnet due to more
exposure. I like to get as much out as I can, partly as a diagnostic.

'Curly'