Young Mr.Warman, another stumper for you.....Transmission and ABS, alternator

"Young???" Mr. Warman?? Now I KNOW you're trying to butter me up 8^)

I'll have to do some reading on your trans problem..... see if you can find
out for sure if you have the A4LD or the 4R55. Do the usual checks, anyway
(fluid level, condition, shift linkage) and it might be an idea to check
mainline pressure if possible. Recommend a guage that reads to 500 psi and a
good hose - most oil pressure master guages can handle this. On
transmissions with high miles, I'm always a little reluctant to go too far
with spot repairs. It doesn't take much to sink some serious coin into a
specific repair only to find out later that the rest of the gearbox is
getting ready to lie down.

For your belt squeal/charging system woes, I'd check the FEAD belt and the
tensioner. Chances are that the tensioner is either sticking or has weak
spring tension. After a cold start is usually when the alternator is
demanding it's highest HP load from the motor and, if the belt isn't being
held taught, you'll get the squeal.

HTH

"Young??", ahhh.... makes an old farts heart warm....


"barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply"
> wrote in message
...
> My Exploder (95,XLT/Control Trac) has had an irritating problem for a
> month now, and is excaserbated by the colder weather. Here goes:
> Hard shifting from 1-2, nice from 2-3, and 3-2. I can live with the
> hard shifting, but on the 2-1 downshift, it triggers my ABS, pulsing
> the pedal, almost like the ujoint is sloppy (both changed just 2bs). I
> used to adjust the modulator on my older fords, and am quite sure no
> such beast exists for the exploder. When fully warm (10 kms, or more)
> the problem disappears, although 1-2 upshift is still firmer than I
> like. No codes other than a 332 (egr underflow) everything else is
> aok. Just over 200k on the rig. Thoughts?
>
> PS another tiny problem: when cold, she is discharging, squealaing the
> belt, etc. Just leave the engine idle with no accessories and in 20
> seconds, it will climb above half, and all is well. A right turn, or a
> bump can put it into discharge mode again squealing down the street,
> UNTIL I lift my foot off the accelerator, then it slowly climbs up.
> Pressing the gas makes it discharge again. When driven 3-4kms, the
> problem disappears, never to return until the next cold morning, then
> same thing like clockwork. Is it, in yer opinion: alternator(bad) or
> voltage regulator (cheap, and I have never found any parts cheap on
> the EX) Thanx JIM~!\
> BarrytheDude

From your description, I agree with Jim. Either the tensioner isn't doing
it's job or the belt is stretched or too hard to grip the pulleys. I think
throwing money at an alt/reg would be a waste.
H

"barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply"
> wrote in message
...
> I only have the 4 spd auto, not sure, but did they not have a 5 spd
> auto as well? All the usual checks have been done, I changed the fluid
> in July, and all was drip free and clean.
> Regarding the belt squeal, Even when cold after an hour or two will it
> do what I illustrated. I can get the regulator on Monday and put in,
> but am not sure if the alternator might be more at fault, as is my
> luck, the most expensive item is usually what goes....belt, tensioner
> all appear fine, the belt is a year old... Thx Jim
>
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 19:06:19 GMT, "Jim Warman"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Young???" Mr. Warman?? Now I KNOW you're trying to butter me up 8^)
> >
> >I'll have to do some reading on your trans problem..... see if you can
find
> >out for sure if you have the A4LD or the 4R55. Do the usual checks,
anyway
> >(fluid level, condition, shift linkage) and it might be an idea to check
> >mainline pressure if possible. Recommend a guage that reads to 500 psi
and a
> >good hose - most oil pressure master guages can handle this. On
> >transmissions with high miles, I'm always a little reluctant to go too
far
> >with spot repairs. It doesn't take much to sink some serious coin into a
> >specific repair only to find out later that the rest of the gearbox is
> >getting ready to lie down.
> >
> >For your belt squeal/charging system woes, I'd check the FEAD belt and
the
> >tensioner. Chances are that the tensioner is either sticking or has weak
> >spring tension. After a cold start is usually when the alternator is
> >demanding it's highest HP load from the motor and, if the belt isn't
being
> >held taught, you'll get the squeal.
> >
> >HTH
> >
> >"Young??", ahhh.... makes an old farts heart warm....
> >
> >
> >"barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply"
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> My Exploder (95,XLT/Control Trac) has had an irritating problem for a
> >> month now, and is excaserbated by the colder weather. Here goes:
> >> Hard shifting from 1-2, nice from 2-3, and 3-2. I can live with the
> >> hard shifting, but on the 2-1 downshift, it triggers my ABS, pulsing
> >> the pedal, almost like the ujoint is sloppy (both changed just 2bs). I
> >> used to adjust the modulator on my older fords, and am quite sure no
> >> such beast exists for the exploder. When fully warm (10 kms, or more)
> >> the problem disappears, although 1-2 upshift is still firmer than I
> >> like. No codes other than a 332 (egr underflow) everything else is
> >> aok. Just over 200k on the rig. Thoughts?
> >>
> >> PS another tiny problem: when cold, she is discharging, squealaing the
> >> belt, etc. Just leave the engine idle with no accessories and in 20
> >> seconds, it will climb above half, and all is well. A right turn, or a
> >> bump can put it into discharge mode again squealing down the street,
> >> UNTIL I lift my foot off the accelerator, then it slowly climbs up.
> >> Pressing the gas makes it discharge again. When driven 3-4kms, the
> >> problem disappears, never to return until the next cold morning, then
> >> same thing like clockwork. Is it, in yer opinion: alternator(bad) or
> >> voltage regulator (cheap, and I have never found any parts cheap on
> >> the EX) Thanx JIM~!\
> >> BarrytheDude
> >
> >
>

If the belt is sqealing, it is slipping. You can remove the belt and see if
any accessories are binding up.... the squeal you hear could be the crank
sheave spinning in the belt - if the belt can't turn the alternato, it will
show up as a low or no charge condition. Start it up and let it squeal for a
few seconds..... shut it off and check which pulley(s) is hot.... be
careful, the friction can make a sheave hot enough to injure in very short
order.

Look at this way.... your alternator is designed to produce on so much power
and the belt system is designed to handle that designed load along with
power steering input and AC operation (though some declutch the AC when PS
demand is high). I'm understanding that the low charge rate and the squeal
are going hand in hand..... is there something I'm missing?


"barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply"
> wrote in message
...
>I am thankful for all the suggestions, but it is not the pulley
> tensioner or belt, all is tight like a drum and works great warm.
> After an hour or two the sysmptoms described earlier persist.
> Something is making a negative charge situation, and draggind things
> down.,
>
>

"barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply"
> wrote in message
...
> I could never imagine you missing something JIM! The squeal is from
> the belt, to be sure, and happens when this mystery ALT load shows on
> my guage as an almost total discharge situation.

What evidence do you have of a "mystery ALT load" other than the gauge
showing discharge?

It sounds like one possibility is that there is no Mystery ALT load
but instead your alternator is locking up, or almost locking up. If
it were to do that two things would happen, there would be a squeal
and the alternator output would drop making your gauge drop too. When
you take your foot off and let things slow down maybe that's letting
the belt grab hold of the alt pulley again and start that tight alt
moving again, squeal stops, voltage goes back up. It's also possible
that a similar scenario is happening but the high load accessory is
the AC or PS pump and the belt is slipping on the crank pulley making
all the other accessories run slow with similar effects. I think
someone suggested pulling the belt and seeing if any of the
accessories see to be binding or dragging- that would be what I'd
check next.

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:38:48 GMT,
(barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply) wrote:

>I could never imagine you missing something JIM! The squeal is from
>the belt, to be sure, and happens when this mystery ALT load shows on
>my guage as an almost total discharge situation. Then as I let my foot
>off the gas, then press and squeal, then the guage goes slightly up,
>when it reaches a certain "point" on the guage (indicating charging
>again) all is quiet.....Strange, Eh?
>
>On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:56:19 GMT, "Jim Warman"
> wrote:
>
>>If the belt is sqealing, it is slipping. You can remove the belt and see if
>>any accessories are binding up.... the squeal you hear could be the crank
>>sheave spinning in the belt - if the belt can't turn the alternato, it will
>>show up as a low or no charge condition. Start it up and let it squeal for a
>>few seconds..... shut it off and check which pulley(s) is hot.... be
>>careful, the friction can make a sheave hot enough to injure in very short
>>order.
>>
>>Look at this way.... your alternator is designed to produce on so much power
>>and the belt system is designed to handle that designed load along with
>>power steering input and AC operation (though some declutch the AC when PS
>>demand is high). I'm understanding that the low charge rate and the squeal
>>are going hand in hand..... is there something I'm missing?
>>
>>
>>"barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply"
> wrote in message
...
>>>I am thankful for all the suggestions, but it is not the pulley
>>> tensioner or belt, all is tight like a drum and works great warm.
>>> After an hour or two the sysmptoms described earlier persist.
>>> Something is making a negative charge situation, and draggind things
>>> down.,
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789

No mystery... all the classic signs of a slipping belt. As AZGUY says, it
could be one of the front engine accessories trying to pile up but I
wouldn't make book on it being the alternator - it is very rare to see
bearing problems on Fords alternators. More common might be the AC clutch
bearing or the compressor itself. Anything... absolutely anything that
causes the alternator to spin too slow will cause a low charge or discharge
condition. That your belt is squealing is a sign that something is causing
the belt to slip and slipping belts are turning something slower than t's
supposed to.

At this point in time, your low charge indication is nothing more than a
symptom and has a very slim chance, indeed, of being a cause.

There are some pointers cast into the tensioner.... two on one side of the
swivel to indicate the "operating range" and a single pointer on the other
side of the swivel - this single pointer should be between the other two.

We can talk about this kind of stuff all day but nothing is going to get
accomplished until someone, somewhere gets their hands dirty...

Jim, speaking of alternators, I got a new crown Vic PI at work and the
alternator has an over-running clutch on the pulley. Have you seen
that on anything else? If so, any idea why they felt it was necessary?
It puts out 125 amps at 800 rpm. We've put aftermarket super output
alternators on other stuff and none of them ever had this clutch on
them.


On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:30:19 GMT, "Jim Warman"
> wrote:

>No mystery... all the classic signs of a slipping belt. As AZGUY says, it
>could be one of the front engine accessories trying to pile up but I
>wouldn't make book on it being the alternator - it is very rare to see
>bearing problems on Fords alternators. More common might be the AC clutch
>bearing or the compressor itself. Anything... absolutely anything that
>causes the alternator to spin too slow will cause a low charge or discharge
>condition. That your belt is squealing is a sign that something is causing
>the belt to slip and slipping belts are turning something slower than t's
>supposed to.
>
>At this point in time, your low charge indication is nothing more than a
>symptom and has a very slim chance, indeed, of being a cause.
>
>There are some pointers cast into the tensioner.... two on one side of the
>swivel to indicate the "operating range" and a single pointer on the other
>side of the swivel - this single pointer should be between the other two.
>
>We can talk about this kind of stuff all day but nothing is going to get
>accomplished until someone, somewhere gets their hands dirty...
>
>
>
>
>

--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789

Yep... they've been around since 04 for sure and I think we'll start seeing
more of them. It's designed to help eliminate any NVH concerns... the
eternal quest to have the smothest, quietest cars on the road..... no matter
how complicated they get. You have to admit that it's a pretty nifty deal.


"AZGuy" > wrote in message
...
> Jim, speaking of alternators, I got a new crown Vic PI at work and the
> alternator has an over-running clutch on the pulley. Have you seen
> that on anything else? If so, any idea why they felt it was necessary?
> It puts out 125 amps at 800 rpm. We've put aftermarket super output
> alternators on other stuff and none of them ever had this clutch on
> them.
>
>

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:39:42 GMT, "Jim Warman"
> wrote:

>Yep... they've been around since 04 for sure and I think we'll start seeing
>more of them. It's designed to help eliminate any NVH concerns... the
>eternal quest to have the smothest, quietest cars on the road..... no matter
>how complicated they get. You have to admit that it's a pretty nifty deal.
>


Lucky for me I didn't bet a lunch on what it was.....Seems like it's
one more thing to break....

>
>"AZGuy" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Jim, speaking of alternators, I got a new crown Vic PI at work and the
>> alternator has an over-running clutch on the pulley. Have you seen
>> that on anything else? If so, any idea why they felt it was necessary?
>> It puts out 125 amps at 800 rpm. We've put aftermarket super output
>> alternators on other stuff and none of them ever had this clutch on
>> them.
>>
>>
>

--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789

My 92 sort of did that (power flickered and voltmeter dropped WAY
down) when it was a couple years old. Just twice. Never figured out
what it was and it stopped doing it. Almost like there was a massive
short in something that pulled the voltage so low there wasn't even
enough power to keep the engine running. Yet nothing burned up, no
fuses blew, no wires melted. Maybe some sort of internal short in the
alternator?? How consistently is yours doing this?? Consistent
enough that you could simply disconnect the alternator wires and drive
it for an hour or two and see if it still happens?


On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:45:23 GMT,
(barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply) wrote:

>I can get my hands dirty, I am married after all.....Ok, wrong
>point...I have taken the belt off, and nothing seems amiss. The
>compressor for the AC is NOT engaged when this happens, but there is a
>small clue...the lights sometimes have a small (extremely small)
>flicker, and 5-times out of ten, this triggers the low discharge,
>squeal. Something (alt or regulator) is thinking something needs a lot
>of juice or something.... If I can fix all these computers tonight, I
>plan on going to see if the new regulator I bought fixes the
>problem.... I bought wilson instead of dixie, I hope this is a good
>choice......
>On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:30:19 GMT, "Jim Warman"
> wrote:
>
>>No mystery... all the classic signs of a slipping belt. As AZGUY says, it
>>could be one of the front engine accessories trying to pile up but I
>>wouldn't make book on it being the alternator - it is very rare to see
>>bearing problems on Fords alternators. More common might be the AC clutch
>>bearing or the compressor itself. Anything... absolutely anything that
>>causes the alternator to spin too slow will cause a low charge or discharge
>>condition. That your belt is squealing is a sign that something is causing
>>the belt to slip and slipping belts are turning something slower than t's
>>supposed to.
>>
>>At this point in time, your low charge indication is nothing more than a
>>symptom and has a very slim chance, indeed, of being a cause.
>>
>>There are some pointers cast into the tensioner.... two on one side of the
>>swivel to indicate the "operating range" and a single pointer on the other
>>side of the swivel - this single pointer should be between the other two.
>>
>>We can talk about this kind of stuff all day but nothing is going to get
>>accomplished until someone, somewhere gets their hands dirty...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

--
Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the
establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . .
Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of
the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order
to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House
of Representatives, August 17, 1789