Sheesh what happened to Saturn?

On 12 Jan 2007 18:08:16 -0800, "Chuck" > wrote:

>Definitely NOT a "Different kind of car company" anymore!
>It looks like all of their vehicles will just be rebadged products from
>other divisions before long.
>The polymer side panels - their best selling point imho - will soon be
>history.
>Dealers on Long Island, NY are closing left and right - I think there's
>3 left.
>And the service departments at all of those are crooked as all get out.
>Saturn will be the next Oldsmobile . . . NDIMM!


The reason for all of this is that the Saturn is not longer a seperate
division under GM, it is now part of GM and fully run by it like its
other divisions. They are no longer on their own and they will be
trading parts just like other divisions do. (Cavaliar and Saturn share
GM motors now). I agree it is a big mistake to abandon what Saturn was
based on but GMis set on forgeting its roots (small cars that are
durable and last long) and focusing on larger less fuel eeficent cars
and SUV's at a time with good relieble econ cars are needed the most.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

marx404 wrote:

> I know Im gonna get hated for this, but take it for what it is..... those
> who know me know I was a Saturn salesperson. Yes, Saturn has changed, the
> "different car company"days are long gone memories of the past. They are
> just another division of GM now, but still a good car and actually
> becoming an important player for GM.
>
> Scott, IMHO it seems that you had a bum salesperson. It is a law and also
> mandated by Saturn that beside the MSRP there must be an addendum sticker
> showing any additional items on your car. You should have a copy of this
> smaller sticker showing the additional items listed on them, many dealers
> place then inside the glovebox with your orig. MSRP when purchasing a
> brand new car.
>
> It was your salespersons responsibility to properly explain the MSRP and
> the addendum (added items) price to you before your time of purchase. It
> is entirely YOUR responsibility to understand everything that you signed
> when in the finance office before you signed that legal purchase
> agreement. At any time if you didn't understand the numbers, you could
> have walked out if they were unable to produce a viable answer for you.
>
> If it is possible that your dealer has failed to provide you with a copy
> of the addendum showing add ons, then you need to politely return to the
> dealership and ask the manager for one, it should have been there. Now I
> don't know how they do it in other states, but that's how Saturn is
> supposed to do it everywhere. There is a civil way to handle this, doing
> as some other posts suggests will only make an arse out of yourself and
> not resolve much at all. Ask for an explanation from the sales manager and
> if not sufficient, then call Saturn Customer Support and see if they can
> help.
>
> marx404


You're right that it's my fault for not checking them. I know this. I've
been kicking myself ever since for not watching their every move, and
checking every number. I trusted them, and I shouldn't have. It won't
happen again.

Unfortunately I didn't check the paperwork until just after the 30 day
return period. (my fault again) I would have returned the car. I never saw
any addendum sticker. the numbers we talked about was MSRP only. In fact I
noticed that the sticker I saw said "Dealer sets own price." I asked about
this and was told "Yeah we have to say that, but we have to sell for MSRP."

There's no way I would have bought this car if I'd known about the "extras"
It was a return with some damage and they barely slid me into it as it was.
I would have bolted at the mention of "extras" the saleman knew this and
that's likely why he concealed it from me.

I'm trying to negotiate a return with Saturn right now. It's really a shame
because it really is a great car. I was becoming quite fond of it until I
found out about the BS they pulled. It's really soured the whole
experience.

This has changed my opinion of Saturn 180 degrees. What a shame.

Scott

In article >, Scott Stoddard > wrote:
>
>Unfortunately I didn't check the paperwork until just after the 30 day
>return period.

How in the world could you have paid A GRAND MORE than you expected for the
car, and not check the paperwork for A MONTH?

Must be nice to have that much money, that you don't even f**king NOTICE when
somebody overcharges you by A THOUSAND DOLLARS.

Quit complaining. You're an idiot. And you just paid Idiot Tax.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article >,
says...
> In article >, Scott Stoddard > wrote:
> >
> >Unfortunately I didn't check the paperwork until just after the 30 day
> >return period.
>
> How in the world could you have paid A GRAND MORE than you expected for the
> car, and not check the paperwork for A MONTH?
>
> Must be nice to have that much money, that you don't even f**king NOTICE when
> somebody overcharges you by A THOUSAND DOLLARS.
>
> Quit complaining. You're an idiot. And you just paid Idiot Tax.
>

Turn the abrasiveness down Doug. You're running at 40 grit.

Doug Miller wrote:

> In article >, Scott Stoddard
> > wrote:
>>
>>Unfortunately I didn't check the paperwork until just after the 30 day
>>return period.
>
> How in the world could you have paid A GRAND MORE than you expected for
> the car, and not check the paperwork for A MONTH?
>
> Must be nice to have that much money, that you don't even f**king NOTICE
> when somebody overcharges you by A THOUSAND DOLLARS.
>
> Quit complaining. You're an idiot. And you just paid Idiot Tax.
>

Well now aren't you a sweetheart. Feel better now? Good. There's always at
least one like you around isn't there?

Truth is I was a little idiotic in all this. Largely because of a brain
concussion suffered in the accident where my previous Saturn was totaled. I
had a headache throughout the sales process and by the end it was
horrendous. I've had almost constant headaches, and problems with cognition
since the accident because of brain injury. I was busy dealing with my wife
and I's injuries when I should have been busy making sure nobody was
screwing me. Because they should be trying to screw me if they can right?
Especially if my brain isn't working quite right. That's the best time to
pounce.

Of course people with cognitive problems through no fault of their own
should be screwed at every opportunity. You should lie to them, it's their
fault if they trust you.

Idiot tax. That's good words for it. I wish they'd listed it that way on the
invoice.

Scott

Oh, just FYI ppl, as of around 2002 Saturn Corp. changed their policy. There
no longer is a 30 day total refund policy, you can however exchange your
Saturn for another of equivalent value minus any miles and wear and tear
charges.
Too may people were "borrowing cars over the weekend" it seems, and they
changed the policy to stop that.
Hey, didn't Sears change their policy on power tools for just the same
reason? LOL.

Scott, good luck with a resolution, it'll be hard after 30 days though. Next
time Caveat Emptor dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor

marx404

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 20:49:01 -0500, "marx404" > wrote:

>Oh, just FYI ppl, as of around 2002 Saturn Corp. changed their policy. There
>no longer is a 30 day total refund policy, you can however exchange your
>Saturn for another of equivalent value minus any miles and wear and tear
>charges.
>Too may people were "borrowing cars over the weekend" it seems, and they
>changed the policy to stop that.

LOL, maybe they were just reading the contract over the weekend.

New policy: Sure, you can have any car on the lot for $1000 over list.

SnoMan wrote:
> (Cavaliar and Saturn share
> GM motors now).
> TheSnoMan.com

it's not an opel engine in saturn ?

In article . com>,
says...
>
> SnoBall wrote:
> > (Cavaliar and Saturn share
> > GM motors now).
>
> it's not an opel engine in saturn ?

That's what I used to think. I guess it depends on how you define it.
The L81 (3.0L v6) went through no major changes when it was used here
(keep in mind it is also known as an Ecotec in Europe). I wouldn't call
the 3.0 v6 anything other than an Opel... From my understanding the
inline 4 cylinder Ecotec, that we now see here, "may" be a major
redesign or a distant variation of an Opel engine. You will probably
find it is more of a Lotus design than anything if you read up on it.

This should clear it up some
-------------------------------
Ecotec

The Ecotec name was adopted in 2000 for the new generation of Family II
engines. The name was already used for the Opel Family 1 and Family 0
ranges. GM intends this new Ecotec to become its global 4-cylinder.

The Ecotec Family II is a modern chain-driven DOHC 4-valve design with
an aluminum block and head (L850), designed for displacements from 1.8
to 2.4 L. It was developed by an international team of engineers and
technicians from Opel's International Technical Development Center in
Rüsselsheim, Germany, GM Powertrain in Pontiac, Michigan, and Saab in
Trollhättan, Sweden. Much of the development work on this project was
carried out by Lotus Engineering, Hethel, United Kingdom. The engine
uses aluminum pistons and cast iron cylinder liners. Vibration is
reduced with twin balance shafts.

The current Ecotec line is manufactured in Tonawanda, New York,
Kaiserslautern, Germany, and (for Saturn) in Spring Hill, Tennessee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Family_II_engine
-------------------------------

BläBlä wrote:
> In article . com>,
> says...
> >
> > SnoBall wrote:
> > > (Cavaliar and Saturn share
> > > GM motors now).
> >
> > it's not an opel engine in saturn ?
>
> That's what I used to think. I guess it depends on how you define it.
> The L81 (3.0L v6) went through no major changes when it was used here
> (keep in mind it is also known as an Ecotec in Europe). I wouldn't call
> the 3.0 v6 anything other than an Opel... From my understanding the
> inline 4 cylinder Ecotec, that we now see here, "may" be a major
> redesign or a distant variation of an Opel engine. You will probably
> find it is more of a Lotus design than anything if you read up on it.
>
> This should clear it up some

interesting. thx
> -------------------------------
> Ecotec
>
> The Ecotec name was adopted in 2000 for the new generation of Family II
> engines. The name was already used for the Opel Family 1 and Family 0
> ranges. GM intends this new Ecotec to become its global 4-cylinder.
>
> The Ecotec Family II is a modern chain-driven DOHC 4-valve design with
> an aluminum block and head (L850), designed for displacements from 1.8
> to 2.4 L. It was developed by an international team of engineers and
> technicians from Opel's International Technical Development Center in
> Rüsselsheim, Germany, GM Powertrain in Pontiac, Michigan, and Saab in
> Trollhättan, Sweden. Much of the development work on this project was
> carried out by Lotus Engineering, Hethel, United Kingdom. The engine
> uses aluminum pistons and cast iron cylinder liners. Vibration is
> reduced with twin balance shafts.
>
> The current Ecotec line is manufactured in Tonawanda, New York,
> Kaiserslautern, Germany, and (for Saturn) in Spring Hill, Tennessee.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Family_II_engine
> -------------------------------