the starter and neurtral safety swich are good

I've been trying to find out why my car won't start. The battery sits
at 12 volts. The lights, radio, and wipers work. I tested the neutral
safety switch by starting it in neutral reverse. After that I tried
the starter bypass
I forgot to reconnect the power to the solenoid before the bypass.
When I did the bypass, I heard a loud click from the solenoid but
nothing from the motor so I thought the starter motor was bad.
After I noticed my mistake and I hooked up the starter correctly. I
connected the power wire to the starter and, when I hooked up the
positive battery wire, completing the circuit, the starter went off
immediately. The only way to shut it off was to disconnect the
battery.
The circuit board looked good but I can't test the electrical because I
can't hook up the battery. If I do then the starter will melt the
battery head, which it already did to an extent.

What did I break?

> I've been trying to find out why my car won't start. The battery sits
> at 12 volts. The lights, radio, and wipers work. I tested the neutral
> safety switch by starting it in neutral reverse. After that I tried
> the starter bypass
> I forgot to reconnect the power to the solenoid before the bypass.
> When I did the bypass, I heard a loud click from the solenoid but
> nothing from the motor so I thought the starter motor was bad.
> After I noticed my mistake and I hooked up the starter correctly. I
> connected the power wire to the starter and, when I hooked up the

when you say you hooked the power cable to the starter -- do you mean that you
connected the positive cable to the starter solenoid?

> positive battery wire, completing the circuit, the starter went off
> immediately. The only way to shut it off was to disconnect the
> battery.

Sounds like you NOT properly connected to the solenoid!

when the positive battery cable is connected to just the starter then the
starter motor will be invoked!!!

> The circuit board looked good but I can't test the electrical because I
> can't hook up the battery. If I do then the starter will melt the
> battery head, which it already did to an extent.
>
> What did I break?

sounds like your connections are wrong!
--
BBA
°?°
BBA's RC Site - http://www.billybadassrc.com
When Privacy Matters -- http://www.epic.org

Billy Bad Assr=A9 wrote:
> > I've been trying to find out why my car won't start. The battery
sits
> > at 12 volts. The lights, radio, and wipers work. I tested the
neutral
> > safety switch by starting it in neutral reverse. After that I
tried
> > the starter bypass
> > I forgot to reconnect the power to the solenoid before the bypass.
> > When I did the bypass, I heard a loud click from the solenoid but
> > nothing from the motor so I thought the starter motor was bad.
> > After I noticed my mistake and I hooked up the starter correctly.
I
> > connected the power wire to the starter and, when I hooked up the
>
> when you say you hooked the power cable to the starter -- do you mean
that you
> connected the positive cable to the starter solenoid?
>
> > positive battery wire, completing the circuit, the starter went off
> > immediately. The only way to shut it off was to disconnect the
> > battery.
>
> Sounds like you NOT properly connected to the solenoid!
>
> when the positive battery cable is connected to just the starter then
the
> starter motor will be invoked!!!
>
> > The circuit board looked good but I can't test the electrical
because I
> > can't hook up the battery. If I do then the starter will melt the
> > battery head, which it already did to an extent.
> >
> > What did I break?
>
> sounds like your connections are wrong!

I thought of that. I checked the repair manual and the book says the
battery terminal to battery, switch terminal switch wire, which was it.
There's not much to it. I think I hooked it up exactly the way it was
before the bypass. I think I may have disabled the starter switch or
another safety device. I don't know if this means anything but the
battery wire splits into two pieces, one going to the solenoid, and one
going to a relay by the dash. What do you think?

Answers inline

> > I've been trying to find out why my car won't start. The battery sits
> > at 12 volts. The lights, radio, and wipers work. I tested the neutral
> > safety switch by starting it in neutral reverse. After that I
> > tried the starter bypass > > I forgot to reconnect the power to the solenoid
before the bypass.
> > When I did the bypass, I heard a loud click from the solenoid but
> > nothing from the motor so I thought the starter motor was bad.
> > After I noticed my mistake and I hooked up the starter correctly.
> > I connected the power wire to the starter and, when I hooked up the
>
> when you say you hooked the power cable to the starter -- do you mean
> that you connected the positive cable to the starter solenoid?
>
> > positive battery wire, completing the circuit, the starter went off
> > immediately. The only way to shut it off was to disconnect the
> > battery.
>
> Sounds like you NOT properly connected to the solenoid!
>
> when the positive battery cable is connected to just the starter then
> the starter motor will be invoked!!!
>
> > The circuit board looked good but I can't test the electrical because I
> > can't hook up the battery. If I do then the starter will melt the
> > battery head, which it already did to an extent.
> >
> > What did I break?
>
> sounds like your connections are wrong!

I thought of that. I checked the repair manual and the book says the
battery terminal to battery, switch terminal switch wire, which was it.

positive cable from the battery should go directly to the solenoid,
not to the starter motor!

There's not much to it. I think I hooked it up exactly the way it was
before the bypass. I think I may have disabled the starter switch or
another safety device. I don't know if this means anything but the
battery wire splits into two pieces, one going to the solenoid, and one
going to a relay by the dash. What do you think?

If you (assuming starter is grounded!) connect just the batteries positive cable
to the starter -- what happens?
If the solenoid is functioning properly -- nothing will happen.
If the Starter spins -- solenoid is faulty.

BBA

> If you (assuming starter is grounded!) connect just the batteries
positive cable
> to the starter -- what happens?
> If the solenoid is functioning properly -- nothing will happen.
> If the Starter spins -- solenoid is faulty.

The grounding on the starter is the s-wire, correct?
So to do this test I disconnect the switch wire. If the starter spins
when connected to the battery than the solenoid is bad.

> positive cable from the battery should go directly to the solenoid,
> not to the starter motor!

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear before. Some times I think of the
starter and the solenoid as one. The positive cable from the battery is
connected to the solenoid, and the only wire I see connected to the
starter is the motor terminal from the solenoid, but shouldn't the
car still be getting power from the smaller wire from the battery?

wow, it's quite confusing now.

let clarify - the positive from the battery goes to one side of the solenoid
(big connection). Often there will be other wires (big or small) on this
terminal that power other parts of the car.
The other side of the solenoid (the other big connection that is) goes to
the starter motor.

To start the car, we take power and apply it to the smaller 3rd terminal on
the solenoid which will connect the 2 other cables together. (usually by
turning the key)

If you connect your battery and the starter motor goes, either your solenoid
is stuck, you have power to the 3rd terminal, or you have directly connected
your battery cable to the starter motor in effect.

The melting on your battery terminal are from a 'bad connection' while you
are trying to put on the cable you are arcing.




"KingWalter" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>
>
> > If you (assuming starter is grounded!) connect just the batteries
> positive cable
> > to the starter -- what happens?
> > If the solenoid is functioning properly -- nothing will happen.
> > If the Starter spins -- solenoid is faulty.
>
> The grounding on the starter is the s-wire, correct?
> So to do this test I disconnect the switch wire. If the starter spins
> when connected to the battery than the solenoid is bad.
>
> > positive cable from the battery should go directly to the solenoid,
> > not to the starter motor!
>
> I'm sorry if I wasn't clear before. Some times I think of the
> starter and the solenoid as one. The positive cable from the battery is
> connected to the solenoid, and the only wire I see connected to the
> starter is the motor terminal from the solenoid, but shouldn't the
> car still be getting power from the smaller wire from the battery?
>

> > If you (assuming starter is grounded!) connect just the batteries
> positive cable
> > to the starter -- what happens?
> > If the solenoid is functioning properly -- nothing will happen.
> > If the Starter spins -- solenoid is faulty.
>
> The grounding on the starter is the s-wire, correct?

Large cable goes to large terminal on the solenoid other end goes to Positive
Battery Post
Red wire goes to "S" terminal other end goes to Ignition (Key) Switch
Black (sometimes no 3rd terminal or is small red wire) wire goes to "I" or the
other terminal on the solenoid and the other side would go the positive side of
the ignition coil


> So to do this test I disconnect the switch wire. If the starter spins
> when connected to the battery than the solenoid is bad.
>
> > positive cable from the battery should go directly to the solenoid,
> > not to the starter motor!
>
> I'm sorry if I wasn't clear before. Some times I think of the
> starter and the solenoid as one. The positive cable from the battery is
> connected to the solenoid, and the only wire I see connected to the
> starter is the motor terminal from the solenoid, but shouldn't the
> car still be getting power from the smaller wire from the battery?

Possibly additional wires attached to the solenoids large post

--
BBA
°?°
BBA's RC Site - http://www.billybadassrc.com
When Privacy Matters -- http://www.epic.org

I swear I didn't touch it. But today when I went to do some test on
the solenoid, for the hell of it I connected the power to see if it did
the same thing. It didn't, it was back to the way it was before the
bypass. All the power was fine lights, radio, wipers and all the
starter no longer goes off when connected to the battery. And as before
I'm now getting 4 volts with the voltmeter when testing the starter,
- to switch terminal, and + to battery. It doesn't matter whether
the ignition is in off, run, or in start. There is no change in
voltage. The owners manual suggested the goal of the test was to
measure the voltage between motor terminal +, and switch terminal -,
and crank it to see if there was any voltage. NONE AT ALL .
> Large cable goes to large terminal on the solenoid other end goes to
Positive
> Battery Post
> Red wire goes to "S" terminal other end goes to Ignition (Key) Switch
> Black (sometimes no 3rd terminal or is small red wire) wire goes to
"I" or the
> other terminal on the solenoid and the other side would go the
positive side of
> the ignition coil
That's the way I did it. I placed the battery post to the large
solenoid where it connects along with two other wires. Motor terminal
to the small wire on the engine, Switch terminal to the switch wire. I
don't know if this matters but the switch wire ends at the neutral
safety switch.
Back to what happened today. I did the bypass right and the starter
works fine. I also had someone crank it while I was doing the bypass.
The car ran great.

So in summery the car would not start. I tried starting it in reverse,
neutral, and such to test the neutral safety switch, but with no
success.
I did the bypass wrong by leaving the power from the battery to the
solenoid unconnected. During the faulty bypass, I heard a loud click.
After attaching the starter solenoid correctly, when circuit completed
between battery and solenoid, starter motor engaged without my control.
(Meanwhile melting the battery a little bit by holding the wire in
place with a pair of pliers).
The today I tried it again, the starter did not engage as before. Car
power still works.
Did bypass right, starter works, and when I tried starting it in
neutral it wouldn't start.

I hope this clears up any confusion or misconceptions.

> I swear I didn't touch it. But today when I went to do some test on
> the solenoid, for the hell of it I connected the power to see if it did
> the same thing. It didn't, it was back to the way it was before the
> bypass. All the power was fine lights, radio, wipers and all the
> starter no longer goes off when connected to the battery. And as before
> I'm now getting 4 volts with the voltmeter when testing the starter,
> - to switch terminal, and + to battery. It doesn't matter whether
> the ignition is in off, run, or in start. There is no change in
> voltage. The owners manual suggested the goal of the test was to
> measure the voltage between motor terminal +, and switch terminal -,
> and crank it to see if there was any voltage. NONE AT ALL .
> > Large cable goes to large terminal on the solenoid other end goes to
> Positive
> > Battery Post
> > Red wire goes to "S" terminal other end goes to Ignition (Key) Switch
> > Black (sometimes no 3rd terminal or is small red wire) wire goes to
> "I" or the
> > other terminal on the solenoid and the other side would go the
> positive side of
> > the ignition coil
> That's the way I did it. I placed the battery post to the large
> solenoid where it connects along with two other wires. Motor terminal
> to the small wire on the engine, Switch terminal to the switch wire. I
> don't know if this matters but the switch wire ends at the neutral
> safety switch.
> Back to what happened today. I did the bypass right and the starter
> works fine. I also had someone crank it while I was doing the bypass.
> The car ran great.
>
> So in summery the car would not start. I tried starting it in reverse,
> neutral, and such to test the neutral safety switch, but with no
> success.
> I did the bypass wrong by leaving the power from the battery to the
> solenoid unconnected. During the faulty bypass, I heard a loud click.

not an issue -- that click you heard was the solenoid levering the starter drive
gear.

> After attaching the starter solenoid correctly, when circuit completed
> between battery and solenoid, starter motor engaged without my control.

okay -- if only (assuming starter in grounded or bolted in place) the large
terminal (the one with the threads) was connected to positive battery post --
starter spins = faulty solenoid!

> (Meanwhile melting the battery a little bit by holding the wire in
> place with a pair of pliers).
> The today I tried it again, the starter did not engage as before. Car
> power still works.
> Did bypass right, starter works, and when I tried starting it in
> neutral it wouldn't start.

If you think that it's an issue -- try bypassing neutral safety switch - 2
wire -- wire together

I thought that the problem was the ignition switch because the
starter worked during the bypass and the car did not start in
neutral. Today I put a new ignition switch in, but there was no change.
The car still did not start.
> okay -- if only (assuming starter in grounded or bolted in place) the
large
> terminal (the one with the threads) was connected to positive battery
post --
>starter spins = faulty solenoid!
It's bolted to the engine. Is there another test I can do for the
solenoid?
> If you think that it's an issue -- try bypassing neutral safety
switch - 2
> wire -- wire together
How is a neutral safety switch bypass done?