anyone know how to read brake lining codes?

Still trying to figure out why my car won't stop... rears are locking
up way before the fronts really start to work. This is a '55
Studebaker coupe, FWIW... see below for copy of post to
alt.autos.studebaker.

So I pulled my drums again today... found several things interesting.

1) both my rear wheel cylinders were full of crap and leaking somewhat.
I think this means that it is time to replace or bypass the anti-creep
valve. I couldn't get any new wheel cylinders or even cups today so
this part of the project will have to wait for a future date. I did
hone them and clean everything well, but I don't know if the old cups
are still good. I did not disassemble the wheel cylinder on the one
front wheel that I pulled but it appeared spanky clean and dry.

2) Read the codes off my linings and also measured the wheel cylinders.

Rear:

Primary shoe: "CBB-OBX-FF"
Secondary shoe: "FASA-OBX-FF"
Wheel Cyl. 7/8"

Front:

Primary shoe: "GOLDEN FRICTION SBX-FF"
Secondary shoe: "FASA-SBX-FF"
Wheel Cyl. 1-1/16"

Also picked up some new Bendix rear shoes, all linings marked
"BX-U2-EE"

still putting the car back together right now, figured I'd post this in
case anyone could advise... waiting for the brakleen to dry on all the
stuff I hosed down. I sanded the rear shoes real well and soaked them
with Brakleen just in case they had gotten some fluid on them, but it
did not appear that any fluid had seeped past the boot/retainer things.

nate

Hi Nate,
Check the 3 flats on the backing plate where the sides of the brake
shoes make contact. If these areas are grooved, pitted, badly worn or
heavily rusted it can cause the brakes to grab like you describe. That's
an often overlooked problem on old cars. On something that old it
wouldn't hurt to rub your sandpaper on those contact areas anyway and
get them nice and smooth.

-jim

N8N wrote:
>
> Still trying to figure out why my car won't stop... rears are locking
> up way before the fronts really start to work. This is a '55
> Studebaker coupe, FWIW... see below for copy of post to
> alt.autos.studebaker.
>
> So I pulled my drums again today... found several things interesting.
>
> 1) both my rear wheel cylinders were full of crap and leaking somewhat.
> I think this means that it is time to replace or bypass the anti-creep
> valve. I couldn't get any new wheel cylinders or even cups today so
> this part of the project will have to wait for a future date. I did
> hone them and clean everything well, but I don't know if the old cups
> are still good. I did not disassemble the wheel cylinder on the one
> front wheel that I pulled but it appeared spanky clean and dry.
>
> 2) Read the codes off my linings and also measured the wheel cylinders.
>
> Rear:
>
> Primary shoe: "CBB-OBX-FF"
> Secondary shoe: "FASA-OBX-FF"
> Wheel Cyl. 7/8"
>
> Front:
>
> Primary shoe: "GOLDEN FRICTION SBX-FF"
> Secondary shoe: "FASA-SBX-FF"
> Wheel Cyl. 1-1/16"
>
> Also picked up some new Bendix rear shoes, all linings marked
> "BX-U2-EE"
>
> still putting the car back together right now, figured I'd post this in
> case anyone could advise... waiting for the brakleen to dry on all the
> stuff I hosed down. I sanded the rear shoes real well and soaked them
> with Brakleen just in case they had gotten some fluid on them, but it
> did not appear that any fluid had seeped past the boot/retainer things.
>
> nate

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All of the backing plates look pretty good. The areas you describe are
near pristine. I have driven cars with significant grooves in that
area that stopped better than this one. I'm about at my wit's end with
this, got a couple more things to try and then I will have to slap in a
prop valve I think. Not sure why I am having this issue. Anyway I was
told by a friend that sells big truck brakes that the "FF" is the
important part of the lining edge code and that means that all the
linings are nominally about the same coefficient of friction so that is
likely not my problem.

nate

(becoming very familiar with my hub puller...)

jim wrote:
> Hi Nate,
> Check the 3 flats on the backing plate where the sides of the brake
> shoes make contact. If these areas are grooved, pitted, badly worn or
> heavily rusted it can cause the brakes to grab like you describe. That's
> an often overlooked problem on old cars. On something that old it
> wouldn't hurt to rub your sandpaper on those contact areas anyway and
> get them nice and smooth.
>
> -jim
>
> N8N wrote:
> >
> > Still trying to figure out why my car won't stop... rears are locking
> > up way before the fronts really start to work. This is a '55
> > Studebaker coupe, FWIW... see below for copy of post to
> > alt.autos.studebaker.
> >
> > So I pulled my drums again today... found several things interesting.
> >
> > 1) both my rear wheel cylinders were full of crap and leaking somewhat.
> > I think this means that it is time to replace or bypass the anti-creep
> > valve. I couldn't get any new wheel cylinders or even cups today so
> > this part of the project will have to wait for a future date. I did
> > hone them and clean everything well, but I don't know if the old cups
> > are still good. I did not disassemble the wheel cylinder on the one
> > front wheel that I pulled but it appeared spanky clean and dry.
> >
> > 2) Read the codes off my linings and also measured the wheel cylinders.
> >
> > Rear:
> >
> > Primary shoe: "CBB-OBX-FF"
> > Secondary shoe: "FASA-OBX-FF"
> > Wheel Cyl. 7/8"
> >
> > Front:
> >
> > Primary shoe: "GOLDEN FRICTION SBX-FF"
> > Secondary shoe: "FASA-SBX-FF"
> > Wheel Cyl. 1-1/16"
> >
> > Also picked up some new Bendix rear shoes, all linings marked
> > "BX-U2-EE"
> >
> > still putting the car back together right now, figured I'd post this in
> > case anyone could advise... waiting for the brakleen to dry on all the
> > stuff I hosed down. I sanded the rear shoes real well and soaked them
> > with Brakleen just in case they had gotten some fluid on them, but it
> > did not appear that any fluid had seeped past the boot/retainer things.
> >
> > nate
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Follow up question: is it possible that I am having this issue because
my rear shoes are still pretty fresh and the fronts appear to be about
90% worn in to the drums? I.E. can fresh linings be "grabby?" IME
it's more likely that they would have reduced efficiency but I'm
running out of ideas here.

nate

N8N wrote:
> All of the backing plates look pretty good. The areas you describe are
> near pristine. I have driven cars with significant grooves in that
> area that stopped better than this one. I'm about at my wit's end with
> this, got a couple more things to try and then I will have to slap in a
> prop valve I think. Not sure why I am having this issue. Anyway I was
> told by a friend that sells big truck brakes that the "FF" is the
> important part of the lining edge code and that means that all the
> linings are nominally about the same coefficient of friction so that is
> likely not my problem.
>
> nate
>
> (becoming very familiar with my hub puller...)
>
> jim wrote:
> > Hi Nate,
> > Check the 3 flats on the backing plate where the sides of the brake
> > shoes make contact. If these areas are grooved, pitted, badly worn or
> > heavily rusted it can cause the brakes to grab like you describe. That's
> > an often overlooked problem on old cars. On something that old it
> > wouldn't hurt to rub your sandpaper on those contact areas anyway and
> > get them nice and smooth.
> >
> > -jim
> >
> > N8N wrote:
> > >
> > > Still trying to figure out why my car won't stop... rears are locking
> > > up way before the fronts really start to work. This is a '55
> > > Studebaker coupe, FWIW... see below for copy of post to
> > > alt.autos.studebaker.
> > >
> > > So I pulled my drums again today... found several things interesting.
> > >
> > > 1) both my rear wheel cylinders were full of crap and leaking somewhat.
> > > I think this means that it is time to replace or bypass the anti-creep
> > > valve. I couldn't get any new wheel cylinders or even cups today so
> > > this part of the project will have to wait for a future date. I did
> > > hone them and clean everything well, but I don't know if the old cups
> > > are still good. I did not disassemble the wheel cylinder on the one
> > > front wheel that I pulled but it appeared spanky clean and dry.
> > >
> > > 2) Read the codes off my linings and also measured the wheel cylinders.
> > >
> > > Rear:
> > >
> > > Primary shoe: "CBB-OBX-FF"
> > > Secondary shoe: "FASA-OBX-FF"
> > > Wheel Cyl. 7/8"
> > >
> > > Front:
> > >
> > > Primary shoe: "GOLDEN FRICTION SBX-FF"
> > > Secondary shoe: "FASA-SBX-FF"
> > > Wheel Cyl. 1-1/16"
> > >
> > > Also picked up some new Bendix rear shoes, all linings marked
> > > "BX-U2-EE"
> > >
> > > still putting the car back together right now, figured I'd post this in
> > > case anyone could advise... waiting for the brakleen to dry on all the
> > > stuff I hosed down. I sanded the rear shoes real well and soaked them
> > > with Brakleen just in case they had gotten some fluid on them, but it
> > > did not appear that any fluid had seeped past the boot/retainer things.
> > >
> > > nate
> >
> > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On 12 Mar 2006 12:28:45 -0800, "N8N" > wrote:

>Still trying to figure out why my car won't stop... rears are locking
>up way before the fronts really start to work. This is a '55
>Studebaker coupe, FWIW... see below for copy of post to
>alt.autos.studebaker.
>

You have your leading and trailing shoes all facing the correct
direction don't you?

How do you adjust the brakes on this one? Do you have one center
adjuster or one adjuster for each shoe?

Steve B.

The adjusters could be in backwards so when the brakes are applied, the
shoes are being adjusted closer to the drum causing the lockup. But all
the gunk on the rears cannot be cleaned off. The wheel cyl cups need to
be replaced, and maybe the axle seals (I don't know whats leaking), and
remember, the short shoe is always to the front....

On 13 Mar 2006 10:10:36 -0800, "N8N" > wrote:

>Follow up question: is it possible that I am having this issue because
>my rear shoes are still pretty fresh and the fronts appear to be about
>90% worn in to the drums? I.E. can fresh linings be "grabby?" IME
>it's more likely that they would have reduced efficiency but I'm
>running out of ideas here.
>
snip post about rear brakes locking up...


This is just a wild ass guess, but IF the drum diameter of the rears is
much smaller than the fronts the rear brakes will apply first and may lock
up.

I think I'd replace the front linings and check the drum diameters before
spending lots of money and time trying to fix this.
--

Dave in Columbus

wrote:
> The adjusters could be in backwards so when the brakes are applied, the
> shoes are being adjusted closer to the drum causing the lockup.

They are manual, no possibility of that

> But all
> the gunk on the rears cannot be cleaned off.

There is no gunk on the rears

> The wheel cyl cups need to
> be replaced, and maybe the axle seals (I don't know whats leaking),

axle seals were replaced before the shoes

> and
> remember, the short shoe is always to the front....

yes they are...

nate

N8N wrote:
>
> Follow up question: is it possible that I am having this issue because
> my rear shoes are still pretty fresh and the fronts appear to be about
> 90% worn in to the drums? I.E. can fresh linings be "grabby?" IME
> it's more likely that they would have reduced efficiency but I'm
> running out of ideas here.
>

I will attempt to extract what I see as the relevant info from your
statement.

What you are saying is that this problem of grabbing brakes didn't
develop over time as you drove the car, but instead, it all started when
the new rear shoes were put in.

If that interpretation is correct I would guess the shoes are not the
right size. That would mean either not the right width or not the right
radius. You should be able to see the wear pattern on the shoes. Is it
contacting only in the center of the shoes or only at the ends? Also, If
the shoes are a hair too wide they could be pinched between the drum and
backing plate when applied (the same could be true if the drums were
turned but not cut quite wide enough).

-jim


> nate
>
> N8N wrote:
> > All of the backing plates look pretty good. The areas you describe are
> > near pristine. I have driven cars with significant grooves in that
> > area that stopped better than this one. I'm about at my wit's end with
> > this, got a couple more things to try and then I will have to slap in a
> > prop valve I think. Not sure why I am having this issue. Anyway I was
> > told by a friend that sells big truck brakes that the "FF" is the
> > important part of the lining edge code and that means that all the
> > linings are nominally about the same coefficient of friction so that is
> > likely not my problem.
> >
> > nate
> >
> > (becoming very familiar with my hub puller...)
> >
> > jim wrote:
> > > Hi Nate,
> > > Check the 3 flats on the backing plate where the sides of the brake
> > > shoes make contact. If these areas are grooved, pitted, badly worn or
> > > heavily rusted it can cause the brakes to grab like you describe. That's
> > > an often overlooked problem on old cars. On something that old it
> > > wouldn't hurt to rub your sandpaper on those contact areas anyway and
> > > get them nice and smooth.
> > >
> > > -jim
> > >
> > > N8N wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Still trying to figure out why my car won't stop... rears are locking
> > > > up way before the fronts really start to work. This is a '55
> > > > Studebaker coupe, FWIW... see below for copy of post to
> > > > alt.autos.studebaker.
> > > >
> > > > So I pulled my drums again today... found several things interesting.
> > > >
> > > > 1) both my rear wheel cylinders were full of crap and leaking somewhat.
> > > > I think this means that it is time to replace or bypass the anti-creep
> > > > valve. I couldn't get any new wheel cylinders or even cups today so
> > > > this part of the project will have to wait for a future date. I did
> > > > hone them and clean everything well, but I don't know if the old cups
> > > > are still good. I did not disassemble the wheel cylinder on the one
> > > > front wheel that I pulled but it appeared spanky clean and dry.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Read the codes off my linings and also measured the wheel cylinders.
> > > >
> > > > Rear:
> > > >
> > > > Primary shoe: "CBB-OBX-FF"
> > > > Secondary shoe: "FASA-OBX-FF"
> > > > Wheel Cyl. 7/8"
> > > >
> > > > Front:
> > > >
> > > > Primary shoe: "GOLDEN FRICTION SBX-FF"
> > > > Secondary shoe: "FASA-SBX-FF"
> > > > Wheel Cyl. 1-1/16"
> > > >
> > > > Also picked up some new Bendix rear shoes, all linings marked
> > > > "BX-U2-EE"
> > > >
> > > > still putting the car back together right now, figured I'd post this in
> > > > case anyone could advise... waiting for the brakleen to dry on all the
> > > > stuff I hosed down. I sanded the rear shoes real well and soaked them
> > > > with Brakleen just in case they had gotten some fluid on them, but it
> > > > did not appear that any fluid had seeped past the boot/retainer things.
> > > >
> > > > nate
> > >
> > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
> > > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> > > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

jim wrote:
> N8N wrote:
> >
> > Follow up question: is it possible that I am having this issue because
> > my rear shoes are still pretty fresh and the fronts appear to be about
> > 90% worn in to the drums? I.E. can fresh linings be "grabby?" IME
> > it's more likely that they would have reduced efficiency but I'm
> > running out of ideas here.
> >
>
> I will attempt to extract what I see as the relevant info from your
> statement.
>
> What you are saying is that this problem of grabbing brakes didn't
> develop over time as you drove the car, but instead, it all started when
> the new rear shoes were put in.
>
> If that interpretation is correct I would guess the shoes are not the
> right size. That would mean either not the right width or not the right
> radius. You should be able to see the wear pattern on the shoes. Is it
> contacting only in the center of the shoes or only at the ends? Also, If
> the shoes are a hair too wide they could be pinched between the drum and
> backing plate when applied (the same could be true if the drums were
> turned but not cut quite wide enough).

The problem is that this car is a "barn car" that I am in the process
of putting back onto the road; it has a Texas inspection sticker on the
windshield reading "0" and that means that it's been off the road for
at least six years, more likely 16 or 26. When I got the car the
brakes were in bad shape, the linings were worn, mismatched, and fluid
soaked in the front. I replaced all shoes at that time, along with the
hoses, master cylinder, and three wheel cylinders (the fronts needed to
be replaced; the rears appeared to be able to be "kitted" but one had a
stuck bleeder screw so it was replaced as well.) The brakes were only
"driveway rated" at the time I got the car so I haven't a clue how they
performed when the car was last on the road.

The reason the rear shoes are newer is about 50-100 miles after I
started (carefully) driving the car I ran to a parts store maybe 5
miles away to exchange a battery and as is my habit I set the parking
brake in the parking lot. Apparently due to a missing spring in the
parking brake linkage the rear shoes were dragging slightly as I drove
back, not enough to create a perceptible drag but enough that there was
a distinct smell of hot linings by the time I parked the car again.
Post mortem revealed minor heat cracks in the rear linings, so the rear
shoes were replaced again. This is why the front shoes are older than
the rears, but none are actually "old." All were obtained from the
same vendor and as I posted above appear to be consistent in their
friction characteristics.

To answer your specific questions, I don't have a drum caliper but
little to no perceptible ridge is evident on any of the drums. The
front shoes appear to be contacting the drums more or less fully, but
as the rears are pretty fresh they are only contacting the drums over
maybe 30%-ish of their surface, mostly on the leading and trailing
edges. I can only ASSume that this is because the friction material is
thicker than stock but the drums are still relatively unworn. I would
assume that shoe width is not a problem as they are stock relined shoes
and the friction material does not hang over the edges of the shoes.

Unfortunately I don't have the option of going to a deserted parking
lot and properly wearing in the shoes; I live in an area where such
things don't exist and traffic is such that trying to "burn in" the
brakes on public roads would likely result in a ticket, accident, or
both. I also don't know of any shops that have the ability to "arc" my
shoes for me to speed this process along...

thanks for the reply...

nate