SUV drivers

Snow wrote:
> "Harry K" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Everytime this subject comes up you can bet that someone will bring
up
> > this old saw. SUV's were never designed as SW replacement. SW
were a
> > very minor portion of the market even in their heyday.
>
> As suvee's are today.

Minor portion of the market?? Try 50% or in that neighborhood. I
haven't seen the figures for several years and it was around 40% back
then.

They did replace the SW, the suvees came out of the
> minivan market. Only the true 4x4's that have been around for 30 plus
years
> are anything different.

The SUV did -not- come out of the minivan. Absolutely no components in
common until recently and the market percentage of minivans did not
change. At a guess I would say that the minivan has a larger portion
of the market now than it did then. SW disappeared becuase of EPA
regs, not because of anything the SUV had going for it.

> > you didn't add in the other old saw of needing a SUV because SW
aren't
> > available as a tow vehicle. That is also false as even in the
heyday
> > of SW, ones used to tow were a very small percentage of all SW
which
> > were a very small percentage of all passenger vehicles.
>
> So no one who owns a suvee these days use it as a tow vehicle??
bull****!!!
> 60% of all suvees sold will tow something. And they make great tow
vehicles,
> providing they aren't over loaded, but this applies to even a Golf.
>

Nice. Care to show where I or anyone said -noone- uses them to tow
with? The statement was that only a small percentage of a small
percentage of SW did it. In SUV it is a larger percentage of (IIRC)
almost 50% of all vehicles, but it is still a small percentage of all
SUV that ever tow anything. Just check the SUVs parted in a lot or on
the street, damn few even have a hitch. Your Landruiser, Jeep and such
are an exception.


> >They were crude with most of them only part time 4x
> > (total lockup between axles in 4x).
>
> The real ones still have this, though limited to only a few makes and

> models.
>
> >The current crop is an abortion.
> > Lousy handling on the road, not really capable of off-road.
>
> Well they are ugly and lack styling and have real ****ty off road
> capabilities but not all of them have lousy handling, even the worse
ones
> are still better then some makes of cars.
>
> Snow...

Harry K

Skip Elliott Bowman wrote:
> "Harry K" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
> SUV's were never designed as SW replacement. SW were a
> > very minor portion of the market even in their heyday. I'm
surprised
> > you didn't add in the other old saw of needing a SUV because SW
aren't
> > available as a tow vehicle. That is also false as even in the
heyday
> > of SW, ones used to tow were a very small percentage of all SW
which
> > were a very small percentage of all passenger vehicles.
> >
> > SUV (original) were aimed at the fun market but soon came to be
seen as
> > a "macho" thing. They were crude with most of them only part time
4x
> > (total lockup between axles in 4x). The current crop is an
abortion.
> > Lousy handling on the road, not really capable of off-road.
>
> I can't speak for anyone else's reasons for buying an SUV. But I
bought
> mine to carry my musical gear including basses, PA, amps, keyboards,
etc.
> And I have to make it to the gig in any weather, anywhere. Many's
the time
> I've gotten a call from another musician (or distressed parent) to
give them
> a ride because they can't even get their car out of their own
driveway.
>
> And I'm not about to even consider throwing my 155 year-old Tyrolean
bass
> fiddle (cost me a year's pay) in the back of a pickup truck. It
needs a
> secure, climate-controlled environment. If someone with a
pathological
> hatred of SUVs doesn't like it, they can call someone else.
>
> I've driven it along unpaved mountain roads, along cliff's, across
sand
> dunes, through mountains on packed snow atop ice, and flash-flooded
fields,
> all on the way to the gig. Never an accident, never a ticket. If I
get
> even a fender-bender I'm not going to blame my Explorer.

I have no problem with people using them for the designed purpose. I
do have a problem with the mommy mobiles that have never been (nor
needed to be) in 4x when a much better (and more comfortable ride)
would have been a sedan, minivan (or now) a SW. I really don't even
have a problem with that if the owner would just be honest and admit "I
bought it because I wanted one" but noooo...they always have to try to
justify it with bull**** excuses.

Harry K

"Magnulus" > wrote in message
...
>
> Have fun paying for $2.40/gallon gas this summer.
>
>
It is already here, in Seattle.

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:27:50 -0500, "Snow" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>> If I had to haul plywood, I would get a truck for that as a second
>>> vehicle. Or maybe a small trailer.
>>
>>Why do you think some people have the big suvee's ? its because they have
>>a
>>need for carring loads of size.
>
> That's the exception, not the rule.
>
> Most people have big SUVs because they want to impress (or keep up
> with) their neighbors, or because they wan to sit up high and see over
> other vehicles on the road, or because they want something big to
> intimidate other drivers, or because they think that SUVs are
> inherently safer in a collision. Very few SUVs regularly carry large
> loads or a full compliment of passengers.

A complement of passengers? Or people soft-soaping each other? Sorry,
Scott--I couldn't resist

I didn't mind sharing my reasons for using an SUV, but the truth of the
matter is it's nobody's business why a person buys whatever car they
want--not even the salesman's. If they want to use a Viper to haul cement
blocks, who are we to say no?

It would be nice if people weren't sold cars they couldn't drive, but that's
not the case yet. And more's the pity.

Ahh see Im in the North East, where our weather is different, so possibly
the percentage of suvee's and how they are used could be dictated by the
geographical area??

Snow...

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:38:58 -0500, "Snow" >
> wrote:
>
>>So no one who owns a suvee these days use it as a tow vehicle??
>>bull****!!!
>>60% of all suvees sold will tow something.
>
> Whose ass did you pull that ridiculous figure out of?
>
> I regularly make 1000-mile road trips between SoCal and Tucson. The
> vast majority of vehicles I see towing something are pickup trucks. In
> second place are RVs towing either a trailer or a small economy car.
> Once in a while I'll see a scrU-Haul towing a car. Nowhere near 60% of
> the SUVs I see are towing *anything* whatsoever.
>
> But don't take my word for it - have a look at a video I took on one
> of my trips. Go ahead and count the number of SUVs you see towing
> anything.
>
> http://rani.sir.arizona.edu/~khan/kretp.wmv
>
> --
> Sloth Kills!
> http://www.geocities.com/slothkills/

> The SUV did -not- come out of the minivan. Absolutely no components in
> common until recently and the market percentage of minivans did not
> change. At a guess I would say that the minivan has a larger portion
> of the market now than it did then. SW disappeared becuase of EPA
> regs, not because of anything the SUV had going for it.

NO??? I can see a few similarities between sw's and suvee's, inparticular
the large "family" sized one's. I never said suvee's were the down fall of
sw's, I said the minivan was one of the downfalls. The suvee just came out
of the minivan craze.

> Nice. Care to show where I or anyone said -noone- uses them to tow
> with? The statement was that only a small percentage of a small
> percentage of SW did it. In SUV it is a larger percentage of (IIRC)
> almost 50% of all vehicles, but it is still a small percentage of all
> SUV that ever tow anything. Just check the SUVs parted in a lot or on
> the street, damn few even have a hitch. Your Landruiser, Jeep and such
> are an exception.

Cartlon claimed that a Golf would surfice as a tow vehicle instead of a
suvee.

Snow...

> Do you live by a lake?

No but we Vacation near a few, and around them 8 out of 10 havea hitch
installed and 6 out of those 8 have a trailer attached at somepoint over the
weekend.
>
> Even around lakes, 60% aren't usually towing anything.
>
>>
>>> If you can tow it with a Golf, why do you need an SUV?
>>
>>Can a golf tow my 18 bowrider boat? or haul two snowmobiles 400 km's ??
>
> Oh, does everyone have an 18 bowrider boat? (do you mean 18 foot?)

Nope not everyone has an 18 foot boat, but can someone who does tow it with
a Golf???

>>
>>> The "real" ones?
>>
>>Ever hear of Jeep and Land Rover or Land cruiser? they are the 3 real
>>4x4's
>>out there.
>
> Jeep? Sure - I know someone whose daughter just totalled hers.
> Amazingly enough, it didn't roll, but the other SUV that she hit did.

Let me guess either a Kia, Suzuki, Toyota (the nice vehicles they are) or
some new yuppies mobile.


Snow...

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
>>No but we Vacation near a few, and around them 8 out of 10 havea hitch
>>installed
>
> Which means absolutely nothing.
>
> The Durango I used to have also had the factory towing package, even
> though it never once towed anything. It also had the off-road skid
> plates, even though it never went off a paved road.

Cottage country around here means boats, trailers, campers etc. 80% of them
being towed by suvee's 15% of them by truck and the remainder by car
sometimes against every common sense and the law (seen a Civic towing a 16
ft power boat from local campground to a second and different lake).

Its too bad you never used your Durango to its full potential

Snow...

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:21:31 -0500, "Snow" >
wrote:

>Its too bad you never used your Durango to its full potential

Very few people use their vehicles to their full potential.
And, IMO, those who say they do lie about other things, too! :-)

Just as one example, I own a 99 Expedition 4x4. I do go off-road, but
I've never gotten it stuck. :-)

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:16:03 -0500, "Snow" >
wrote:

>NO??? I can see a few similarities between sw's and suvee's, inparticular
>the large "family" sized one's. I never said suvee's were the down fall of
>sw's, I said the minivan was one of the downfalls. The suvee just came out
>of the minivan craze.

No, the Carryall (the progenitor of the Suburban) was here in the 20s.
Long before minivans.
SUVs are not an outgrowth of minivans.
Their popularity also predates minivans.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"