GM in real trouble

This is just pathetic. From the LA Times:

Ponying up more than $100,000 of their own money, three dozen General Motors
Corp. dealers nationwide this month bought full-page newspaper ads imploring
the public to give GM a chance.

"For the good of everyone, they must succeed and they need our help," the ad
read. "We pledge ours. We hope you will do the same."


It's past time that people will buy crappy cars just because 'most' or
'some' of the car is built in the US. Now the dealers are begging for
customers' attention. Get a clue GM. Make cars that people want to
purchase and you won't have this kind of trouble.

The past few weeks I've been delivering cars for a detailing service in an
upscale area of Orange County, CA. (Yes Scott, that was me in the Carrera
'not' blocking the fast lane.) I've driven Porsches, Jaguars, Cadillacs,
Toyotas, Lexus, pretty much any brand you can think of. One thing is
abundantly clear; GM has forgotten what people are looking for in their
cars. All other manufacturers, to varying degrees, get it done better. The
one maker that is on the way to dominating the field of upscale cars is
Lexus. I'd never driven one before but now I've driven many. We have a
service contract with a local Lexus dealer and average 8-10 cars a day from
their sales and service departments. Any Lexus is so much better than
anything GM produces it's scary.

This isn't exactly rocket science guys! Any maker can produce a good car if
it wants to. GM has turned their collective backs on the car buying public
and now the public is voting with their checkbooks, and GM just got voted
out of office.

I spend a lot of time at the Lexus dealer. There is a Cadillac dealer right
across the street, it looks like a ghost town judging by foot traffic. This
is doubly sad because Cadillac is the one GM division actually making an
effort to produce innovative, high quality cars.

GM has been in decline for a long, long time. Now they blame the unions,
when in fact it all comes down to them producing cars that people don't want
to buy. And it may be too late to turn it around.

Alan

wtrplnet wrote:
> This is just pathetic. From the LA Times:
>
> Ponying up more than $100,000 of their own money, three dozen General Motors
> Corp. dealers nationwide this month bought full-page newspaper ads imploring
> the public to give GM a chance.
>
> "For the good of everyone, they must succeed and they need our help," the ad
> read. "We pledge ours. We hope you will do the same."
>
>
> It's past time that people will buy crappy cars just because 'most' or
> 'some' of the car is built in the US. Now the dealers are begging for
> customers' attention. Get a clue GM. Make cars that people want to
> purchase and you won't have this kind of trouble.
>
> The past few weeks I've been delivering cars for a detailing service in an
> upscale area of Orange County, CA. (Yes Scott, that was me in the Carrera
> 'not' blocking the fast lane.) I've driven Porsches, Jaguars, Cadillacs,
> Toyotas, Lexus, pretty much any brand you can think of. One thing is
> abundantly clear; GM has forgotten what people are looking for in their
> cars. All other manufacturers, to varying degrees, get it done better. The
> one maker that is on the way to dominating the field of upscale cars is
> Lexus. I'd never driven one before but now I've driven many. We have a
> service contract with a local Lexus dealer and average 8-10 cars a day from
> their sales and service departments. Any Lexus is so much better than
> anything GM produces it's scary.
>
> This isn't exactly rocket science guys! Any maker can produce a good car if
> it wants to. GM has turned their collective backs on the car buying public
> and now the public is voting with their checkbooks, and GM just got voted
> out of office.
>
> I spend a lot of time at the Lexus dealer. There is a Cadillac dealer right
> across the street, it looks like a ghost town judging by foot traffic. This
> is doubly sad because Cadillac is the one GM division actually making an
> effort to produce innovative, high quality cars.
>
> GM has been in decline for a long, long time. Now they blame the unions,
> when in fact it all comes down to them producing cars that people don't want
> to buy. And it may be too late to turn it around.
>
> Alan

That "buy american" argument always has been BS. Why should i help a
company that doesn't care enough about me to give me the product i want?

Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:

> That "buy american" argument always has been BS. Why should i help a
> company that doesn't care enough about me to give me the product i want?

Damned, many of your past posts indicate you wouldn't buy a new car, so
WTF does it matter if GM or any other company offers something you
like?

--

El Pollo Loco (Laura Bush Murdered Her Boyfriend) demonstrates it's
complete gullibility, stupidity, and state of delusion when it falls
for an April Fool's joke, hook, line, and sinker:

> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...6999983?hl=en&

Ragnar wrote:
> Gods, you're dumb. Its a rather obvious April Fool's joke. And you're
> the Fool.

This is no joke. Bush has gotten away with stealing two elections and
blowing up WTC and lying america into war. So don't put a third term
attempt past him. I mean who's gonna stop him. The democrats and the
media are totally bought off.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:39:41 -0700, "wtrplnet" >
wrote:

>This is just pathetic. From the LA Times:
>
>Ponying up more than $100,000 of their own money, three dozen General Motors
>Corp. dealers nationwide this month bought full-page newspaper ads imploring
>the public to give GM a chance.
>
>"For the good of everyone, they must succeed and they need our help," the ad
>read. "We pledge ours. We hope you will do the same."
>
>
>It's past time that people will buy crappy cars

Yeah, but they aren't necessarily crappy cars any more. American cars have
come _way_ up in quality, and some even surpass many Japanese cars. Lincoln,
Buick, and Cadillac, for example, are extremely reliable:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/Auto...cars/index.htm

According to this, these cars kick a lot of foreign ass. They _should_ be
considered if one is in the market for a car. It would be doing yourself, as
well as the country, a favor.

Dave Head

>just because 'most' or
>'some' of the car is built in the US. Now the dealers are begging for
>customers' attention. Get a clue GM. Make cars that people want to
>purchase and you won't have this kind of trouble.
>
>The past few weeks I've been delivering cars for a detailing service in an
>upscale area of Orange County, CA. (Yes Scott, that was me in the Carrera
>'not' blocking the fast lane.) I've driven Porsches, Jaguars, Cadillacs,
>Toyotas, Lexus, pretty much any brand you can think of. One thing is
>abundantly clear; GM has forgotten what people are looking for in their
>cars. All other manufacturers, to varying degrees, get it done better. The
>one maker that is on the way to dominating the field of upscale cars is
>Lexus. I'd never driven one before but now I've driven many. We have a
>service contract with a local Lexus dealer and average 8-10 cars a day from
>their sales and service departments. Any Lexus is so much better than
>anything GM produces it's scary.
>
>This isn't exactly rocket science guys! Any maker can produce a good car if
>it wants to. GM has turned their collective backs on the car buying public
>and now the public is voting with their checkbooks, and GM just got voted
>out of office.
>
>I spend a lot of time at the Lexus dealer. There is a Cadillac dealer right
>across the street, it looks like a ghost town judging by foot traffic. This
>is doubly sad because Cadillac is the one GM division actually making an
>effort to produce innovative, high quality cars.
>
>GM has been in decline for a long, long time. Now they blame the unions,
>when in fact it all comes down to them producing cars that people don't want
>to buy. And it may be too late to turn it around.
>
>Alan
>

>
> Yeah, but they aren't necessarily crappy cars any more. American cars
have
> come _way_ up in quality, and some even surpass many Japanese cars.
Lincoln,
> Buick, and Cadillac, for example, are extremely reliable:
>
> http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/Auto...cars/index.htm
>
> According to this, these cars kick a lot of foreign ass. They _should_ be
> considered if one is in the market for a car. It would be doing yourself,
as
> well as the country, a favor.
>
> Dave Head

Reliability isn't enough any more. Most cars are so reliable that it isn't
even an issue any longer. Even the Korean cars are reliable. I don't
dispute that American cars have come a long way in the reliability area, and
more power to them.

The issue is that American cars in general, and GM cars in particular are
playing catch-up in other areas. Drivability, comfort, perceived quality
(especially of interior parts and construction), trade in value, the list
goes on and on. Test drive any Lexus then test drive the equivalent
American model.

If you prefer the American car, that's great! I don't want to see GM go
down the tubes, same for Ford and Daimler-Chrysler. I would love to see
them all produce cars that drove Lexus out of the market, I just don't see
that happening.

Alan

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:09:21 -0700, "wtrplnet" >
wrote:

>>
>> Yeah, but they aren't necessarily crappy cars any more. American cars
>have
>> come _way_ up in quality, and some even surpass many Japanese cars.
>Lincoln,
>> Buick, and Cadillac, for example, are extremely reliable:
>>
>> http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/Auto...cars/index.htm
>>
>> According to this, these cars kick a lot of foreign ass. They _should_ be
>> considered if one is in the market for a car. It would be doing yourself,
>as
>> well as the country, a favor.
>>
>> Dave Head
>
>Reliability isn't enough any more. Most cars are so reliable that it isn't
>even an issue any longer. Even the Korean cars are reliable. I don't
>dispute that American cars have come a long way in the reliability area, and
>more power to them.

>The issue is that American cars in general, and GM cars in particular are
>playing catch-up in other areas. Drivability, comfort, perceived quality
>(especially of interior parts and construction), trade in value, the list
>goes on and on. Test drive any Lexus then test drive the equivalent
>American model.
>
>If you prefer the American car, that's great!

Not necessarily. I just wanted to say that they aren't exactly as "crappy" as
a lot of people are saying.

Unfortunately, at least for Detroit, I bought my car for the next 10 years or
so from Subaru, because I wanted a fast car with all wheel drive that cost
around $24K. I'm not familiar with anything like that from Detroit. Maybe I
should have researched it more, but the Subaru WRX is well known from its
success on the World Rally Championship circuit, so I bought one.

>I don't want to see GM go
>down the tubes, same for Ford and Daimler-Chrysler. I would love to see
>them all produce cars that drove Lexus out of the market, I just don't see
>that happening.

I just hope that we can get them out from under the "crappy" cloud - and I
think most people perceive American cars has having reliability problems, so
that's what I addressed. Whether we like 'em for the interior design or not is
another matter. I think Caddy had or has that system which uses infra-red to
"see" at night - that's way-cool. Not sure what other innovations are out
there. Need more stuff like that and need it on American cars.

One thing that GM has that blows everyone out of the water, if it's important
to you, is OnStar. That is a super concept. I wouldn't be surprised to see it
catch on. That's the sort of thinking that I'd call "outside the box" and if
they keep that up, great things can happen.

Dave Head

>Alan
>

>
> Unfortunately, at least for Detroit, I bought my car for the next 10 years
or
> so from Subaru, because I wanted a fast car with all wheel drive that cost
> around $24K. I'm not familiar with anything like that from Detroit.
Maybe I
> should have researched it more, but the Subaru WRX is well known from its
> success on the World Rally Championship circuit, so I bought one.

My ex has a WRX. She also has a 911, MGB-GT, VW Corrado, Jeep and who knows
what else. She loves the WRX but complains about the quality of interior
parts. I can live with mouse fur interiors if I get Carrera performance at
1/3 the cost.

Alan

> :
> Damned, many of your past posts indicate you wouldn't buy a new car, so
> WTF does it matter if GM or any other company offers something you
> like?

Well, you got to remember that in about 10 to 15 years, the new product
of today just might the beater POS that judy will be slothing down the
road in...

The GM (and Ford) dealers themselves are a BIG part of the problem.
It's not just product, it's the crummy service experience you get at
many dealerships. This can range from (a) having to argue to get
warranty service, especially on performance cars; (b) generally poor
communication (dealer never calls me when car is ready, or to provide
updates on repairs); (c) Problems dismissed as "normal operation",
"could not duplicate", or otherwise not fixed properly, on the first
service visit. Want a ****ed off customer? Have him coming back
multiple times for the same problem.

Not all dealerships are bad, but many are. GM needs to dump dealers
that provide poor customer service.

The best solution is to eliminate the trade restriction, namely the
moronic NHTSA FMVSS regulations and stifling EPA regulations. Once the
market is open to every manufacturer, the intense competition will force
General Motors and others to improve their products in order to stay
alive. The other benefit is that General Motors (and even Ford) can sell
whatever vehicles from other countries and relabel excellent Opel as
Chevrolets or whatever brand for US market whenever the demand warrants.
With price of petrol approaching or surpassing $3 a gallon, they can
just import the economical vehicles without subjecting them to
$10million cost and lengthy process of engineering and certifying to
meet antediluvian US regulations.

It has been done in other countries and worked well. In the 1980s and
1990s, Chile removed the trade barriers and local protection for the
ships. This move forced the local industry to improve its products. Same
with Australia which is adapting ADR, its equivalent of FMVSS, to
harmonise with ECE and reducing the import tariff. General Motors-Holden
and Ford Australia got their act together and pushed hard to improve its
local products. What's more, Australians enjoy more choice of products
than ever before.

It is shame that Americans are blaming wrong things and pointing fingers
at wrong reasons. Now is time to eliminate NHTSA and to open the market
to the competition. NHTSA has been stonewalling the Congress and
American public about its failure and shortcomings. Every attempt to
harmonise FMVSS with ECE is always stalled or obfuscated left and right.
The riot act is getting too long and too obvious not to do anything.

Well?



wtrplnet wrote:
> This is just pathetic. From the LA Times:
>
> Ponying up more than $100,000 of their own money, three dozen General Motors
> Corp. dealers nationwide this month bought full-page newspaper ads imploring
> the public to give GM a chance.
>
> "For the good of everyone, they must succeed and they need our help," the ad
> read. "We pledge ours. We hope you will do the same."
>
>
> It's past time that people will buy crappy cars just because 'most' or
> 'some' of the car is built in the US. Now the dealers are begging for
> customers' attention. Get a clue GM. Make cars that people want to
> purchase and you won't have this kind of trouble.
>
> The past few weeks I've been delivering cars for a detailing service in an
> upscale area of Orange County, CA. (Yes Scott, that was me in the Carrera
> 'not' blocking the fast lane.) I've driven Porsches, Jaguars, Cadillacs,
> Toyotas, Lexus, pretty much any brand you can think of. One thing is
> abundantly clear; GM has forgotten what people are looking for in their
> cars. All other manufacturers, to varying degrees, get it done better. The
> one maker that is on the way to dominating the field of upscale cars is
> Lexus. I'd never driven one before but now I've driven many. We have a
> service contract with a local Lexus dealer and average 8-10 cars a day from
> their sales and service departments. Any Lexus is so much better than
> anything GM produces it's scary.
>
> This isn't exactly rocket science guys! Any maker can produce a good car if
> it wants to. GM has turned their collective backs on the car buying public
> and now the public is voting with their checkbooks, and GM just got voted
> out of office.
>
> I spend a lot of time at the Lexus dealer. There is a Cadillac dealer right
> across the street, it looks like a ghost town judging by foot traffic. This
> is doubly sad because Cadillac is the one GM division actually making an
> effort to produce innovative, high quality cars.
>
> GM has been in decline for a long, long time. Now they blame the unions,
> when in fact it all comes down to them producing cars that people don't want
> to buy. And it may be too late to turn it around.
>
> Alan
>
>