rec.autos.makers.chrysler FAQ, Part 2/6

Archive-name: autos/chrysler-faq/general/part2
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Last-modified: 2009/1/24
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PART II

*************************CONTENTS***************** ************
What should I do...
1. ... before I post?
2. ... (removed)
3. ... if I have problems with Chrysler?
4. ... if I own this car? (list of models and what to look for)

Oil Filter Discussion

List of All Engines Since 1966
1. Guide to V-8s
2. New transmission designations decoded (new!)

List of All Body Styles Since 1966

************************************************** *********************
BEFORE POSTING WITH COMPLAINTS/QUESTIONS

1. Check the FAQ. Most answers are there.

2. Please don't post messages like "this broke and I will speak to the
dealer about it sometime." Go to the dealer first; if they cannot fix
it, and it is not in the FAQ, THEN go to the newsgroup.

3. If you are having problems with Chrysler, and have not yet read the
relevant FAQ section, please do so. At least call them (800-992-1997).

4. If you are having problems with Chrysler and are angry and bitter
at them, an angry message or two is fine. But you won't help
anyone by going overboard.

************************************************** *********************
HOW TO DEAL WITH CHRYSLER CORP.
************************************************** *********************

(Note: Thanks to Dan Adams for his help with parts of this -
Chrysler Corp should be grateful to have him!)

* The order in which you should deal with a problem is something like
this:
1. Speak politely but assertively with the service writer.
2. Ask to go for a ride with the mechanic and discuss relevant issues
wuth them.
3. Service manager.
4. 800 992 1997.
5. Zone (voluntary buyback negotiations IF APPLICABLE)
6. Arbitration / Consumer Affairs / Attorney General if applicable
AND needed.

* Be *polite* and *calm* but assertive at all times. Do not take "no"
for an answer but do *not* act angry or make threats. Chrysler sometimes
helps, even out of warranty, but they need to be gently pushed; they are
generally defensive; and they have a strange impression that all dealers
are wonderful and honest while most customers are scum. The Customer Center
reps
often don't know what they're talking about, so elaboration may help; they
are not car people or particularly well paid. If all else fails, call back
and speak to someone else. Always take down their name for your reference!

* Know what you're talking about. Check the FAQ, TSBs, your computer
codes, and recalls before you visit the dealer with a problem.

* Don't expect Chrysler to change something because it's listed in a TSB
(technical service bulletin). TSBs describe solutions to problems which
may not apply to your car; they are *not* recalls, though Chrysler often
fixes cars out of warranty if there is a known problem and TSB on it.

* Even if you are in an adversarial relationship, act in a friendly,
nonthreatening, non-adversarial manner. It works better and makes both
parties less angry.

* Daniel Adams writes: Chrysler corparte headquarters does tend to back
the field reps but a good service writer can get to them and help you
more than you would believe. Don't take your frustration out on the service
writers, they carry quite a bit of pull behind the scenes. [And sometimes
it helps to know who the good service writers are.]

* Don't take "no" for an answer. Call Chrysler at 800-992-1997 from a
pay phone if you have to. They will call the dealer. Often, the dealer
will discover they don't need to charge you or keep your car after all!

* If your dealer keeps fixing the same thing over and over again, get
another dealer. Or try the newsgroup.

* If your dealer treats you badly, lies to you, refuses to do the work,
etc., get another dealer.

* Consider service BEFORE buying the car when you choose a dealer. Also
consider asking the salesman who the best service writer is.

* If you have a continuing problem, speak to the people at the Customer
Center. You may need to deal with a zone rep, the final word at
Chrysler. Others can overrule them but THEY (generally) WILL NOT. Some reps are
good. Others are useless. There have been many reports that the reps in
some areas are exceedingly sensitive and need to be handled with kid
gloves. (See message about service writers above -- they can often get
action where ordinary mortals cannot).

* Note: if, as Continental Auto Body (of Wyckoff, New Jersey) did to my
car, your dealer should get your car into an accident, immediatly retain
a lawyer and find out what your options are. Examine the damage
personally before they have a chance to cover it up and lie about it.

****** NON-CHRYSLER SOLUTIONS ****** (after internal solutions fail)

courtesy of http://www.acarplace.com/

* Contact your local consumer affairs department. Note: May not work in
states with a predominantly anti-government/libertarian attitude.

1. File an official lemon law complaint with your state. This
will get their attention and help negotiation. You can
usually get a better deal through negotiation than in court.
Hiring a lemon law specialist may help - good ones will offer
to negotiate *first.* Chrysler has a reputation for being easy!

2. Go through the Customer Arbitration Board. Results with this
group have been mixed.

* Most lawyers don't know the first thing about lemon law! A good one
will know the people at the zone office and will try to
talk nice to them to solve the problem. If negotiation is not their
first move, they are not the right lawyer.

* Your chances of getting cash are slim. You will probably get a credit
(buy-back). You will usually not get all of your money back. Chrysler
tends to follow state laws; most impose a penalty on each mile of use
before the first lemon-type complaint. This is normal and OK.

* Go through the latest TSBs again. Something new might have come up.

*Whenever your dealer lies to you or is too incompetent, send a letter
to Dealer Agreements or the Customer Center, Box 302, Centerline, MI
48015. It may not help you but it might help someone else! (Actually, it
may not help anyone else, either).

* If in a dispute with a five-star dealer, feel free to return your
customer satisfaction survey with very negative ratings. Dan Adams
assures us that these surveys are taken very seriously. Be aware that
all surveys are also given to the dealers - not just in aggregate form,
but the individual surveys - so be careful what you say, don't go
overboard. For more details on what happens to your surveys, see
http://www.allpar.com/fix/surveys.html.

* If you get into a dispute with an auto body shop, check your state's
laws to see what regulations and rules might be applicable.

************************************************** **********************

WHAT SHOULD I DO IF I HAVE THE FOLLOWING CAR/ENGINE?

ENGINES

2.2/2.5 turbo:
-- check for fuel leaks and loose fuel line connections

Carbureted V-8/slant six engines
-- clean the crankcase inlet air filter regularly.
-- keep a spare ballast resistor in your glove compartment
-- make sure the stove and damper (vacuum-powered valve) are working
-- check/replace vacuum tubes regularly
-- make sure float level is adjusted well

Any engine without DIS (if you have a rotor, this applies to you) ---
-- Problems may be caused by low quality rotor or different
brand rotor and distributor cap. (Standard-Bluestreak was recommended
by Dan Stern. There have been malformed Mopar 2.2/2.5 caps).
-- We've seen an aftermarket cap replacement that allows for use of
conventional, longer-life wires.

2.7 V6, pre-2006: use synthetic oil to avoid sludge and maintain the PCV system

TRANSMISSIONS

4-speed automatic
-- all: Change fluid regularly with *recommended* fluid.
See http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html
-- KNOW the right fluid (owner's manual ONLY). Do NOT trust mechanics.
-- DO NOT use non-recommended fluid or ANY additives.
-- Check for TSBs and have the computer updated if
needed. If a dealer doesn't feel/hear it, find another. Persist
until they follow the TSB. The new computer save wear and tear
on the transmission for various reasons. (1996+ transmissions
have software-upgradable computers)
-- MOST problems are due to MAINTENANCE ISSUES. Do the maintenance
with EXACTLY the fluids and parts recommended!
-- DO NOT USE DEXRON! Do not trust any mechanic! ASK!
-- If you have a problem, check the allpar forums and try getting
second opinions. Mechanics, including dealership mechanics, are
quick to demand that you replace or rebuilt these things even when
the problems are minor! Even honest mechanics are jaded by past
breakdowns...
-- If you DO have a problem, make SURE the first thing they check
is the computer error code. Most problems appear to be sensor issues
rather than mechanical breakdowns. That's the difference between
$100 and $2500!

BRAKES
-- You may be able to prevent problems with ABS systems by
changing the brake fluid every 4 years (or more).
-- Often, the ABS light goes on due to dirt in the sensors. Try to
troubleshoot it yourself using the engine-code method.
http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html


******************* CONSUMER REPORTS DISCUSSIONS *******************
Transferred to Web site, http://www.allpar.com/cr.html
************************************************** *********

From Lloyd Parker, updated since then:

**** Engines used in Chryslers since 1966:

Lots of info on most of these engines is at
http://www.allpar.com/mopar.html

* denotes an engine still in production for Chrysler vehicles
(some are still used elsewhere, e.g. 2.2 in China, 2.4 in Russia)

4 cylinders

1.4 (MMC) -- Colt, Champ
1.4 (CC/Rover) - BMW Mini
1.5 (Sunbeam) -- Cricket (British)
1.5 (MMC) -- Colt, Summit
1.6 (MMC) -- Colt, Champ, Challenger, Sapporo, Arrow
1.6 (Peugeot) -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo
1.6 turbo (MMC) -- Colt
1.6 DOHC (MMC) -- Colt, Summit
1.6 DOHC turbo (MMC) -- Colt
1.6 (CC/Rover) - Mini and export Neons
1.7 (VW) -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo
1.8 (MMC) -- Colt, Vista, Summit, Laser, Talon
1.8 (CC) -- Neons outside the US
1.8 (WE)* -- World Engine - Caliber, more (2006+)
2.0 (MMC) -- Arrow, Vista
2.0 DOHC (MMC) -- Laser, Talon
2.0 DOHC turbo (MMC) -- Laser, Talon
2.0 SOHC -- Neon
2.0 DOHC -- Neon, Sebring, Avenger, Talon, Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze
2.0 (WE)* -- World Engine - Caliber, more (2006+)
2.2 -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo, Aries, Lancer,
Reliant, Shadow, Sundance, 400, 600, Caravelle, Caravan,
Voyager, LeBaron, Laser, Daytona, New Yorker, E-Class,
Executive, Limousine (note: TBI and carb versions)
2.2 turbo -- LeBaron, New Yorker, Limousine, Laser, Daytona,
Lancer, TC, 600, Shadow, Caravelle, Sundance, Omni,
Charger, E-Class, Shelby (note: MPI)
2.2 DOHC turbo -- Spirit, Daytona (joint venture with Lotus)
2.2 DOHC turbo -- TC (joint venture with Maserati)
2.2 (Renault) -- Medallion
2.4 (MMC) -- Vista, Summit
2.4* DOHC (CC) -- Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze, 1996+ minivans, PT
2.4 Turbo (CC) - PT GT, SRT-4, Mexican Stratus R/T
2.4 (WE)* -- World Engine - Caliber, Compass, Patriot, more (2006+)
2.5 (CC) -- minivans, Aries, Reliant, Shadow, Sundance,
Duster, 600, Lancer, Dynasty, Daytona, Spirit, Acclaim,
LeBaron, Caravelle, Dakota (to 1995) - no carb versions
2.5 turbo (CC) -- minivans, Spirit, Acclaim, Shadow,
Sundance, LeBaron, Daytona (Note: MPI)
2.5 (AMC) -- Wrangler, Cherokee, Premier, Dakota (96+)
2.6 (MMC) -- New Yorker, E-Class, Executive, Limousine,
LeBaron, 400, 600, Aries, Reliant, Caravan, Voyager
2.6 turbo (MMC) -- Conquest (MMC)

2.5 is 2.2 with balance shafts, minor changes. 2.0 (CC) is 2.2 with
different heads, fuel system, some tweaks. 3.9 V-6 (below) based on 318.
Neon 2.4 is 2.0 with balance shafts, other minor changes.
Chrysler families: 2.2/2.5, 2.0/2.4
----------------------------------
V-6:

2.5 (MMC) -- Sebring, Avenger, Cirrus, Stratus (based on 3.0)
2.7 LH series (1998-2001), Stratus/Sebring
3.0 (MMC) -- LeBaron, TC, minivans, New Yorker, Spirit,
Dynasty, Daytona, Stealth, Shadow ES, Acclaim, Duster
3.0 (Renault) -- Premier, Monaco
3.2 LH series (1998+)
3.3* New Yorker, Dynasty, LH series, minivans
3.5* LH series (1998+), Prowler (steel and aluminum versions) -
Chrysler considers the aluminum version to be entirely new
3.7* V-6 for trucks (2002+)
3.8* New Yorker Fifth Avenue, Wrangler, minivans, etc - bored 3.3
3.9 trucks (3.9 is based on the 318)
4.0* enlarged, modified version of the 3.8 (minivans, etc)

Chrysler-made V6 families are 2.7/3.2, 3.3/3.5/3.8, 3.9/318
MMC 2.5 and 3.0 are related
There have been several performance boosts on 3.3, 3.5, and 3.8 engines

Coming in 2009: Phoenix V6 engines
(see http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html )

----------------------------------
The SLANT SIX (share basic design)

2.8 (170) -- Dart, Valiant, Lancer, Barracuda (Canada), A100, D100
3.3 (198) -- Barracuda, Challenger, Dart, Valiant, Duster, Scamp
3.7 (225)-- Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Mirada, Diplomat, St.
Regis, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, Belvedere, Satellite,
Barracuda, Valiant, Duster, Scamp, Volare, Lancer

----------------------------------
STRAIGHT SIXES

(flat head) - various sizes - ended in late 1950s for cars
215 - Australian Valiants
245 - Australian Valiants
265 - Australian Valiants
4.0 (AMC) -- Cherokee, Wagoneer, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee
4.2 (AMC) -- Wrangler

Families: 215/245/265, 4.0/4.2, flat heads

The Australian straight sixes was built on a basic design intended for
use in American trucks. They changed from the slant six to
Australian-built 215, 245, and 265 sixes in 1970. The Aussie models had
hemispherical heads, so the 3-2barrel Weber version could honestly be
called a Hemi Six-Pack.

----------------------------------
V-8s

4.5 (273) -- Dart, Valiant, Barracuda, Coronet, Belvedere, Satellite
4.7* -- 1999 Grand Cherokee, Charger R/T (CNG), next-gen Rams
5.2 (318) -- Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, St. Regis, Magnum,
Mirada, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, VIP, Belvedere,
Satellite, Road Runner, Barracuda, Valiant, Scamp, Duster,
Volare, Cordoba, LeBaron, Newport, New Yorker, Gran Fury,
Imperial, Grand Cherokee, Grand Wagoneer, Diplomat, Demon,
pickups and SUVs thru 2001.
5.6 (340) -- Charger, Challenger, Dart, Barracuda, Duster, Road Runner,
Ramcharger
5.7 Hemi* (345) -- Pickups, LX cars, Grand Cherokee, Durango
5.9 (360) -- LeBaron, Newport, New Yorker, 300, Cordoba, Diplomat,
Polara, Monaco, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, Gran Fury,
Barracuda, Duster, St. Regis, pickups and SUVs thru 2002.
(345) -- Hemi Magnum engine for trucks, next-gen large cars
5.9 (361) -- Coronet, Charger, Belvedere
5.9 (360-AMC) -- Grand Wagoneer
6.1 Hemi* - SRT8 models
6.3 (383)-- Newport, 300, Town & Country, Polara, Monaco, Coronet,
Charger, Challenger, Dart, Fury, Belvedere, Satellite, Road
Runner, Barracuda, Magnum
6.6 (400) -- Newport, New Yorker, Town & Country, Monaco, Fury, Road
Runner, Gran Fury, Charger, maybe Cordoba, Magnum
7.0 (426, Hemi & Wedge) -- Belvedere, Road Runner, GTX, Barracuda,
Challenger, Charger, Coronet, Daytona, Superbird
7.2 (440) -- Newport, New Yorker, 300, Town & Country, Imperial, Polara,
Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Challenger, Fury, VIP, Belvedere,
Road Runner, GTX, Barracuda, Daytona, Superbird

----------------------------------
8.0 V-10* -- Viper, Ram trucks (two versions, fairly different)
Truck version (cast iron) ended in 2002. Aluminum continues.

----------------------------------

Gary Howell clarifies:

** Small blocks (except new 4.7) **
273/318/340/360 are LA engines they look the same from the outside.
LA stands for "Lightweight-casting A"
[There is now an A/LA page at http://www.allpar.com/mopar/318.html]

273 cu. in. 1964-69 3.31 stroke and 3.63 bore
318 cu. in. 1968-91 3.31 stroke and 3.91 bore
340 cu. in. 1968-73 3.31 stroke and 4.04 bore
360 cu. in. 1971-91 3.58 stroke and 4.00 bore

The A engines (not LA) are older small blocks and look the same on the
outside to each other. The blocks are different in deck height, but
share some internal components with the LA block. The cylinder heads
and intake are different.

277 cu. in. 1956 3.75 bore and 3.12 stroke
301 cu. in. 1957 3.91 bore and 3.12 stroke
318 cu. in. 1957-67 3.91 bore and 3.31 stroke

The Magnum 318 and 360 engines are LA engines with different cylnder
heads. The blocks are physically the same as the earier LA engines,
except the oil
passage for the shaft mounted rockers is not drilled, because the Magnum
engines oil through the push rods. The boss is there if you need to use
the old style heads.

** Big Blocks **

There are eight different big blocks. The B blocks are short deck and
the RBs are tall deck. The RBs require a wider intake manifold.
[RB engine page: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/383.html]

B: 350, 361, 383, 400
RB: 383, 413, 426 Wedge (not Hemi), 440

All B engine use 3.38 stroke crank with different bores, and all RB
engines use 3.75 stroke crank with different bores. You'll notice that
the 383 is listed in two differnent places. There were two different
383s; the RB is very rare, only produced 64. The 350 was only produced
in 1958.

************************************************** *********
NEW TRANSMISSION DESIGNATIONS

(Courtesy Daniel Adams)

On the new transmissions (e.g. 41TE):

4 amount of forward gears (from 3 to 6 at this point!)
1 the torque rating for the trans (on a 1-8 scale 1 lowest 8 strongest)
T or R transaxle or rear wheel drive
e or h electronic or hydraulic

There are two five-speed automatics: a Chrysler-designed unit based on the
727, and a Mercedes-designed unit

62TE six-speed automatic is similar to the four-speed car automatics and
actually has seven forward speeds including a kickdown gear.

Truck automatics are generally 727-based (unlike minivan autos.)

Transmission list with details on many types of transmission:
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions.html

Dual clutch automatics:
http://www.allpar.com/corporate/auto...nsmission.html

************************************************** *********
CAR BODY TYPES

Because the list of car body types was getting rather confusing - there are
far too
many models that jumped from one platform to another - we have taken this
out of the
FAQ and refer you instead to full, informative lists of cars by body type at:
http://www.allpar.com/model/rwdbodies.html (rear drive and trucks/Jeeps)
http://www.allpar.com/model/fwdbodies.html (front drive).

For an example of the difficulty, the early Barracuda was a modified
Valiant, hence an A-body; later it
moved to a platform shared only with the Challenger (E-body). The New
Yorker was a K-car, C-body, and several more...in one year sharing two
different bodies (not unlike the Stratus whose sedan and coupe versions
were built on totally different platforms, made by two different companies,
in the same years!). The Fury moved from C to B body in the late 1970s.
There are many others... cars were resized, transformed, dropped, and
brought back with the same names.