things are stirring for lfs s2 users

Jan Verschueren wrote:

> Oh my god.... they've fixed LFS!!
>
> I'm known not to mince my words around here, so I'll live up to my
> reputation.
>
> As of now LFS is, overall, the best sim..
>
> And the Sauber is a hoot to drive, BTW. <g>
>
> Jan.
> =---

Yes Jan!!!

>"Jan Verschueren" > wrote
> And the Sauber is a hoot to drive, BTW. <g>


But those tracks... eww.. there's no real potential.





--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Jan Verschueren wrote:
> "Tango" wrote...
>> <snip>
>
> Oh my god.... they've fixed LFS!!
>
> I'm known not to mince my words around here, so I'll live up to my
> reputation.
>
> As of now LFS is, overall, the best sim..
>
> And the Sauber is a hoot to drive, BTW. <g>

I respect your view, Jan, but on what basis? LFS is developing along
nicely but still has some way to go before it vies for such a crown, if
it ever does, I am not sure it will ever be a contender for best racing
simulation but satisfy a more compromising (and probably larger)
audience. The graphics are so so, a bit too arcade like for my tastes,
the cockpits especially, sound is the worst in any sim and the physics
still feel numb. The Sauber only adds to the arcade feel IMHO.

I am so far unimpressed and judging by the lack of activity on the LFS
RSC forum patch T hardly seems to have set the world alight.

Maybe the thing that is missing for me is atmosphere, LFS just feels
like a computer game to me rather than simulating car racing.

One thing I notice is that I have got used to the rfactor, GT Legends,
NetKar pro method of moving the world view around going over bumps etc.
as opposed to the LFS way of keep the view still and moving the car
around. It seems to dumb down the sensation of hurling a stiff car
around a bumpy track and clattering over curbs etc. Whilst your body
acts as a degree of shock absorber you still move with the car so seeing
the outside view stay rock steady makes everything seem too relaxed and
easy.

I have always thought LFS has its own market (my son plays it with his
mates in a not very serious way) but not really the likely choice for
the hardcore simmers craving a bit more realism. Doesn't make it in my
top three...

Cheers
Tony

> One thing I notice is that I have got used to the rfactor, GT Legends, NetKar pro method of moving the world view
> around going over bumps etc.

Isn't this adjustable in the options (how much g forces affect the
driver)?

Persistence is the twin sister of excellence. One is a matter of
quality; the other, a matter of time. Bumblebee hum, excessively
heuristic handling and self-righteous, esoterically pseudo-sagacious
plebeian market aside - persistence is the twin sister of excellence.

The Sauber F1 is excellent!!!

Tony Rickard > wrote in news:Cwr2g.57548
:

> I am so far unimpressed and judging by the lack of activity on the LFS
> RSC forum patch T hardly seems to have set the world alight.


probably because lfs users/fans etc all go to the official forum and
have been for quite some time !

http://www.lfsforum.net/

this thread was locked at 2164 posts in less than a week

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=6400

avatars had to be switched off because of high traffic concerns

Tango

"ymenard" wrote...
>> <snip>
>
> But those tracks... eww.. there's no real potential.

A licenced car leading to more exposure, leading to licenced tracks, leading
to....

Ok, a bit rosy specced, but not that farfetched.

Jan.
=---

"Tony Rickard" wrote...
>>> <snip>
>> <snip>
> I respect your view, Jan, but on what basis? LFS is developing
> along nicely but still has some way to go before it vies for such
> a crown, if it ever does,

Because of it being the best at communicating the virtual car to the driver
and of where the difficulty with regard to going fast is at.

LFS is the easiest sim to pick up for people with sim- and real life
experience alike, but going really quick poses the same sort of difficulty
as in real life. All a matter of driving a very well defined ideal line
around the circuit and managing the weight transfer within your vehicle to
perfection. IMO LFS has, to a certain extend (more on that later). always
portrayed this "a minute to pick up, a lifetime to master"-notion.

As I've been saying since day one of my involvement here, a lot of people
who drive sims seem to think the harder actually getting the virtual car
around the track is, the more realistic the sim. This is a false
proposition. In my limited experience, operating racecars is extremely easy
compared to road cars (it needs to be, given the speed the control actions
need to be delivered at). Getting them around the racetrack faster than the
next guy is the hard part, which, IMO, LFS models beautifully.

Racing is a skill which could be learned given infinate funds and the
ability to be invulnerable, which is why only the truly gifted make it in
real life. As far as this goes LFS is the only sim which respects this
aspect. There are serveral guys which I (with superior "sim" experience) can
dominate in the virtual arena, but have no hope of matching in a real life
racing situation. The same goes for LFS: drivers who are simply no match for
me in just about any sim (be it Papyrus or ISI) are more than a match around
its tracks in any car.

Before a particular style of driving combined with using setups which
exploited certain parts of the model resulted in being proficient at LFS by
treating it more as a game than as a sim, but first evidence suggests this
is no longer the case. Hence my statement and the feeling of finally being
on equal terms with those who adapted to LFS in favour of other sims.


> I am not sure it will ever be a contender for best racing simulation but
> satisfy a more compromising (and probably
> larger) audience.

You're just being delusional here. There is nothing elite in taking to
something which doesn't come natural to a racing driver.

> The graphics are so so, a bit too arcade like for my tastes.

Compared to what? -there's a couple of things in rFactor with regard to
lighting which add to the experience, but this aspect fades to
insignificance with regard to the way the driver has to compensate for the
actual "lay of the land" with regard to his car.

> the cockpits especially,

Err...what?

> sound is the worst in any sim

It's functional and far richer than what one would hear in RL.

> and the physics still feel numb

Nothing matches the "in yer face" crispness of LFS. There is no way anyone
would be able to stay ahead of the road going cars without it.

>. The Sauber only adds to the arcade feel IMHO.

It's a fact of life current F1 cars accelerate and decellerate at a
ridiculess rate compared to what the average human brain can cope with.
Which is why computer aided gizmos are required to free up CPU cycles in the
modern day F1 driver's head. Again, I think the LFS Sauber is not that much
"off".

> I am so far unimpressed and judging by the lack of activity
> on the LFS RSC forum patch T hardly seems to have set
> the world alight.

Who cares about what RSC forum dwellers think? They've never been on a par
with RAS opinion and never will.

> Maybe the thing that is missing for me is atmosphere, LFS\
> just feels like a computer game to me rather than simulating
> car racing.

Compared to LFS S2 patch T, GPL and its mods are a game.

> One thing I notice is that I have got used to the rfactor, GT
> Legends, NetKar pro method of moving the world view
> around going over bumps etc. as opposed to the LFS way
> of keep the view still and moving the car around. It seems to
> dumb down the sensation of hurling a stiff car around a
> bumpy track and clattering over curbs etc. Whilst your body acts as a
> degree of shock absorber you still move with the car
> so seeing the outside view stay rock steady makes everything
> seem too relaxed and easy.

I know I made changes to the way the game handles this aspect way back when,
but I don't remember exactly what I did. I'm sure, however, the game is
fully configurable in this aspect and any gripes are due to the user not
giving it due time and attendion.

> I have always thought LFS has its own market (my son plays it
> with his mates in a not very serious way) but not really the likely
> choice for the hardcore simmers craving a bit more realism.
> <snip>

I used to treat it this way too: despite the fact it did several things very
right indeed , LFS S2 Q simply favoured "the gamer" too much to warrant any
real interest on my behalf. To my mind, this patch has changed everything. I
have gained five-fold what the hotlapper has gained with this release and
that's before I've begun to appy myself and release all my simulation
experience upon these lowlifes. It's payback time as far as I'm concerned
(and having nagging concerns lifted adds to the fun factor for myself as
well).

To be honest there's a number of things which still need to be done.
Blocking messages should block messages, period, instead of just leaving out
what other users type. Similarly, the way in which the game remembers a
mistimed shift with all aides off untill revs match or the clutch is fully
disengaged needs to be removed. When a driver mistimes a shift that should
be that. Try again and be more "in tune" about it next time, you buffoon. As
it is, I'm catching myself driving what is representing a modern day racing
car as a pre-selector gearbox Vanwall (I drive LFS in way which I consider
"proper", BTW, i.e. "manually" operated clutch, right foot braking,
heel-toe, correct steering angle lock-to-lock with my DFP, etc... where
applicable).

Overall LFS S2 patch T retains what was good about LFS all along, while to a
large extend plugging the holes hotlappers were exploiting up 'till now and
therefore, with it's highly configurable and almost bulletproof online plqy,
should be, IMO, considered king of the crop for the time being. Until the
fFactor community manages to chuck out something complete and consistent, at
any rate.

Jan.
=----

> > The graphics are so so

> Compared to what?

NR2003, F1C99-02 with RH2004 mod, GTR, GTLegends.

Or arcade games like NFS:Most Wanted.