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#1
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88 civic starter problem?
hey folks... have had an 88 civic DX 4 door manual transmission for about a
year now, it has treated me well for the most part (apart from an aggravating hot start issue that switching out the main relay did NOT fix, much to my surprise). anyway, 2 days ago it started turning over very slowly when i went to try starting it, makign me think the battery was starting to go (no idea how long the battery's been in the car, i haven't switched it since i got it). yesterday i took it to a batter shop, he checked teh battery and told me it looked like it was bad, so pulled it out and put a new one in. when i went to start the car immediately, it still turned overy very slowly as though the battery was almost done, though it did spark and start. so it seems perhaps i have a bad starter as well. just to see, we also did a volt read on the battery, and while the car was running it only read 12 V... so it appears i might have a problem with the alternator as well. something seems odd to me, that all 3 would go on the same day, after a year of not having a problem with any of them. (unless the alternator's been just barely working enough to keep me going? i don't know)... anyway, i'm a college student and dont have much money to be paying for work done, so i'm hoping i can replace the starter myself... but my Haynes manual contains almost no information at all on locating the starter or what the starter even looks like. i looked at an online manual from honda.co.uk, which had a vague diagram but was still hard to decipher exactly what the starter was. any tips? is replacing a starter on this model something easily done by someone who sort of knows his way around vehicle repair, in the most basic of ways? can anyone point me to any good resources that will outline the process clearly and somewhat basically? should i just suck it up and have the shop do the work and eat mr noodles this month? thanks in advance.... and if anyone has any ideas about the hot start problem feel free to let me know too. (same symptoms as many have described, turns over but won't spark immediately after running unless you let it sit 10-20 minutes, then starts fine, replacing the main relay did nothing to address the problem) peace...jer |
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#2
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www.autozone.com has free repair guides specific to the 88 Civic.
They're better than Haynes and often duplicate the factory manual. Follow the pointers to the free repair guides, put in your Civic's specifics, then click on in order: Engine & Engine Overhaul Engine Electrical Starter Photos, diagrams, and steps appear at this site. Meanwhile, do you know about using a push to make this (manual transmission) car run? "Jeremy" > wrote > hey folks... have had an 88 civic DX 4 door manual transmission for about a > year now, it has treated me well for the most part (apart from an > aggravating hot start issue that switching out the main relay did NOT fix, > much to my surprise). > > anyway, 2 days ago it started turning over very slowly when i went to try > starting it, makign me think the battery was starting to go (no idea how > long the battery's been in the car, i haven't switched it since i got it). > yesterday i took it to a batter shop, he checked teh battery and told me it > looked like it was bad, so pulled it out and put a new one in. when i went > to start the car immediately, it still turned overy very slowly as though > the battery was almost done, though it did spark and start. so it seems > perhaps i have a bad starter as well. just to see, we also did a volt read > on the battery, and while the car was running it only read 12 V... so it > appears i might have a problem with the alternator as well. something seems > odd to me, that all 3 would go on the same day, after a year of not having a > problem with any of them. (unless the alternator's been just barely working > enough to keep me going? i don't know)... > > anyway, i'm a college student and dont have much money to be paying for work > done, so i'm hoping i can replace the starter myself... but my Haynes manual > contains almost no information at all on locating the starter or what the > starter even looks like. i looked at an online manual from honda.co.uk, > which had a vague diagram but was still hard to decipher exactly what the > starter was. > > any tips? is replacing a starter on this model something easily done by > someone who sort of knows his way around vehicle repair, in the most basic > of ways? can anyone point me to any good resources that will outline the > process clearly and somewhat basically? should i just suck it up and have > the shop do the work and eat mr noodles this month? > > thanks in advance.... and if anyone has any ideas about the hot start > problem feel free to let me know too. (same symptoms as many have described, > turns over but won't spark immediately after running unless you let it sit > 10-20 minutes, then starts fine, replacing the main relay did nothing to > address the problem) > > peace...jer > > |
#3
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"Caroline" > wrote in message hlink.net... > www.autozone.com has free repair guides specific to the 88 Civic. > They're better than Haynes and often duplicate the factory manual. > Thanks, good site. The guides for the Civic appear to be for '84 - '95, inclusive, so I don't know how much of the info or diagrams are specific to a model other than mine, but it gives me a better idea of what i'm dealing with. > Photos, diagrams, and steps appear at this site. > > Meanwhile, do you know about using a push to make this (manual > transmission) car run? > I haven't tried it yet because I haven't needed to, but I'm assuming it should work... Thanks again... Jeremy |
#4
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Jeremy wrote:
> hey folks... have had an 88 civic DX 4 door manual transmission for > about a year now, it has treated me well for the most part (apart > from an aggravating hot start issue that switching out the main relay > did NOT fix, much to my surprise). > > anyway, 2 days ago it started turning over very slowly when i went to > try starting it, makign me think the battery was starting to go (no > idea how long the battery's been in the car, i haven't switched it > since i got it). yesterday i took it to a batter shop, he checked teh > battery and told me it looked like it was bad, so pulled it out and > put a new one in. when i went to start the car immediately, it still > turned overy very slowly as though the battery was almost done, > though it did spark and start. so it seems perhaps i have a bad > starter as well. just to see, we also did a volt read on the battery, > and while the car was running it only read 12 V... so it appears i > might have a problem with the alternator as well. something seems odd > to me, that all 3 would go on the same day, after a year of not > having a problem with any of them. (unless the alternator's been just > barely working enough to keep me going? i don't know)... > > anyway, i'm a college student and dont have much money to be paying > for work done, so i'm hoping i can replace the starter myself... but > my Haynes manual contains almost no information at all on locating > the starter or what the starter even looks like. i looked at an > online manual from honda.co.uk, which had a vague diagram but was > still hard to decipher exactly what the starter was. > > any tips? is replacing a starter on this model something easily done > by someone who sort of knows his way around vehicle repair, in the > most basic of ways? can anyone point me to any good resources that > will outline the process clearly and somewhat basically? should i > just suck it up and have the shop do the work and eat mr noodles this > month? > > thanks in advance.... and if anyone has any ideas about the hot start > problem feel free to let me know too. (same symptoms as many have > described, turns over but won't spark immediately after running > unless you let it sit 10-20 minutes, then starts fine, replacing the > main relay did nothing to address the problem) Try cleaning the distributor cap per the article on my website below. Your symptoms fit this problem exactly. The article is about my Rover which uses a Honda design and is in the 'Miscellanea' section. As to the slow cranking, go to a different battery shop and ask them to check over the battery condition. -- Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex Dorset UK Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter. |
#5
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Jeremy wrote: <snip> > just to see, we also did a volt read > on the battery, and while the car was running it only read 12 V... so it > appears i might have a problem with the alternator as well. If I were to venture a guess, I would say that your starter is OK, your battery died from being under-charged all the time, and your alternator is bad. Many Hondas have a feature where the alternator output voltage is dropped at idle under low-load conditions in order to save fuel. I know they did this as far back as '94, not sure if they did it in '88. On my '94 Civic you can defeat this voltage reduction by stepping on the brakes (foot pedal only, hand brake does not count). Try measuring the voltage again while stepping on the brakes. Now what do you read? Then measure the voltage as you slowly increase the engine RPM from idle to around 3000 RPM (no need to be very accurate, "sounds like about 3000 RPM" is close enough). If your voltage reading never reaches 14.5V or if it reaches 14.5V at elevated RPM and then stays constant as you increase the RPM further, you probably need new brushes in the alternator. Don't know if they were replaceable in '88. If the alternator is the original one, you may want to opt to replace it rather than repair it. If the voltage increases with RPM, and goes above 15V at elevated RPM, then the voltage regulator is broken. Again, I don't know if it is replaceable or if you need to replace the entire alternator. |
#6
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"Randolph" > wrote in message ... > > Jeremy wrote: > > <snip> > > > just to see, we also did a volt read > > on the battery, and while the car was running it only read 12 V... so it > > appears i might have a problem with the alternator as well. > > If I were to venture a guess, I would say that your starter is OK, your > battery died from being under-charged all the time, and your alternator > is bad. > Hmm. I did put a brand new battery put in, and left a charger on it overnight, and it still cranks slowly. Does that point away from the issue being related to the battery? The alternator thing does seem odd to me though, I don't understand how both problems could have come up at the same time with no prior warnings at all.... > Many Hondas have a feature where the alternator output voltage is > dropped at idle under low-load conditions in order to save fuel. I know > they did this as far back as '94, not sure if they did it in '88. On my > '94 Civic you can defeat this voltage reduction by stepping on the > brakes (foot pedal only, hand brake does not count). > > Try measuring the voltage again while stepping on the brakes. Now what > do you read? Then measure the voltage as you slowly increase the engine > RPM from idle to around 3000 RPM (no need to be very accurate, "sounds > like about 3000 RPM" is close enough). If your voltage reading never > reaches 14.5V or if it reaches 14.5V at elevated RPM and then stays > constant as you increase the RPM further, you probably need new brushes > in the alternator. Don't know if they were replaceable in '88. If the > alternator is the original one, you may want to opt to replace it rather > than repair it. > I didn't know Honda did that... not sure if mine does or not. I didn't try the brakes thing, but when I was at the shop, I did raise the engine to about 2500-3000 ish RPM and the voltage reading didn't change. So perhaps that is the case and the alternator's fine...? Although I'd be surprised if they had made the '88 with that feature. I'll check it out (don't have a voltage reader of my own, like I said, I'm not a mechanic, just some jerk student who's doing his best not to give his business to the hard-working mechanics in town. (oh, and save money. ) )... thanks...jeremy |
#7
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"Jeremy" > wrote in message news:jkehd.36745$df2.3194@edtnps89...
> yesterday i took it to a batter shop, he checked teh battery and told me it > looked like it was bad, so pulled it out and put a new one in. when i went > to start the car immediately, it still turned overy very slowly as though > the battery was almost done, though it did spark and start. so it seems > perhaps i have a bad starter as well. just to see, we also did a volt read > on the battery, and while the car was running it only read 12 V... > thanks in advance.... and if anyone has any ideas about the hot start > problem feel free to let me know too. (same symptoms as many have described, > turns over but won't spark immediately after running unless you let it sit > 10-20 minutes, then starts fine, replacing the main relay did nothing to > address the problem) > peace...jer Sounds like a bad solenoid or battery cables. They cause resistance and the starter runs slowly. Touch them see if they're hot. The solenoid is a size of a can of Red Bull located on top of the starter on the transmission-firewall passenger side. The cables are a feet and a half long. Just to be sure, jump the solenoid's two terminal on its back. If that doesn't work, then power the starter with a large cable. If you don't hear that two seconds of fuel pump sound then the main relay is shot again. Open it up and see if you can spot a dry joint. Fix it then put some breathing holes on its cover. Generally, the alternator brushes are replaceable. Rick |
#8
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"Jeremy" > wrote
> "Randolph" > wrote snip > > Many Hondas have a feature where the alternator output voltage is > > dropped at idle under low-load conditions in order to save fuel. I know > > they did this as far back as '94, not sure if they did it in '88. On my > > '94 Civic you can defeat this voltage reduction by stepping on the > > brakes (foot pedal only, hand brake does not count). On my 1991 Civic, turning on the headlights defeats it. In other words, starting the car in the morning in summer temperatures and no loads yields a battery terminal voltage of 12.7 volts. Turn on the headlights, and it jumps to between 14 and 14.5 volts. My Chilton's manual does not mention this. Nor do the free Autozone manuals for my Honda. The only online manual source I found that discusses this is at the UK site for the 1991 Concerto (same engine as my 91 Civic, I believe). > I didn't know Honda did that... not sure if mine does or not. I didn't try > the brakes thing, but when I was at the shop, I did raise the engine to > about 2500-3000 ish RPM and the voltage reading didn't change. So perhaps > that is the case and the alternator's fine...? Although I'd be surprised if > they had made the '88 with that feature. I'll check it out (don't have a > voltage reader of my own, like I said, I'm not a mechanic, just some jerk > student who's doing his best not to give his business to the hard-working > mechanics in town. (oh, and save money. ) )... The instructions for checking a 1988-1991 CRX alternator are accessible at http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/CRXManual/index.html . Select "Full Manual" etc. on the left, then "Electrical" and then "alternator" to bring up a PDF file. Like the instructions for the 91 Concerto, these have a series of steps to take that require a load (headlights, radio, etc.) to be placed on the electrical system and imply that the voltage should rise after this load is added. |
#9
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"Caroline" > wrote in message hlink.net... > "Jeremy" > wrote > > "Randolph" > wrote > snip > > > Many Hondas have a feature where the alternator output voltage is > > > dropped at idle under low-load conditions in order to save fuel. I > know > > > they did this as far back as '94, not sure if they did it in '88. > On my > > > '94 Civic you can defeat this voltage reduction by stepping on the > > > brakes (foot pedal only, hand brake does not count). > > On my 1991 Civic, turning on the headlights defeats it. > > In other words, starting the car in the morning in summer temperatures > and no loads yields a battery terminal voltage of 12.7 volts. Turn on > the headlights, and it jumps to between 14 and 14.5 volts. > It seems that the '88 Civic has this built in as well, as stepping on the brakes and raising the RPM to 2500-3000 did engage the alternator. So there's good news: the alternator's working (for now). Jeremy |
#10
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"Ricky Spartacus" > wrote: > Sounds like a bad solenoid or battery cables. They cause resistance and > the starter runs slowly. Touch them see if they're hot. The solenoid is a > size of a can of Red Bull located on top of the starter on the > transmission-firewall passenger side. The cables are a feet and a half > long. Just to be sure, jump the solenoid's two terminal on its > back. If that doesn't work, then power the starter with a large cable. > I checked the cables, and the starter is definitely drawing power from the battery (if not excessive power as it works extra hard to turn over). Tapping the starter with a hammer while turning the key (obviously done with a partner! ) works to start the car, and it seems to me that the starter is simply worn out and needs to be replaced. Thanks to all for the help! This group is fantastic and has helped me a few times in the past, and I appreciate your (collective) willingness to help those in need of it! Blessings....Jeremy |
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