The D4 light

On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 19:24:22 -0800, wrote:

> On Mar 5, 8:46 pm, Joe LaVigne > wrote:
>>
>> NONONONO Noooooo. Do NOT have it flushed. Have it drained and filled, 3
>> times, with about a week between each time.
>
> Interesting. The gospel I've always been handed is that a drain and
> refill is the wrong thing to do. The explanation was that changing
> the fluid would renewing the detergents, which slowly dislodges the
> crud that is built up in the transmission, which then clogs the filter
> and starves the pickup. (Which is the point of "transmission fix"
> products, to bring back the viscosity of the fluid without adding new
> detergent.) The flush, if done properly through the pickup instead of
> the cooler lines and using fresh tranny fluid and not solvent, would
> get rid of all the old fluid AND crud, to essentially reset the fluid
> to a known state.
>
> Maybe the hole in this, and why everyone is recommending repeated
> short term fluid changes, is that the crud gets dislodged too slowly
> for the flush to actually clean anything out, so it's really no
> different than a one-time fluid change, which is a big mistake on a
> neglected tranny.
>
> It would be interesting to see what the factory repair manual
> recommends, or maybe the 3-time change actually is what they
> recommend, anyone know?

That's exactly what is recommended by Honda.

Also note that your Tranny does not have a serviceable filter. Just drain
and refill 3 times, and you will be fine.

" > wrote in
ups.com:

> On Mar 5, 8:46 pm, Joe LaVigne > wrote:
>>
>> NONONONO Noooooo. Do NOT have it flushed. Have it drained and
>> filled, 3 times, with about a week between each time.
>
> Interesting. The gospel I've always been handed is that a drain and
> refill is the wrong thing to do. The explanation was that changing
> the fluid would renewing the detergents, which slowly dislodges the
> crud that is built up in the transmission, which then clogs the filter
> and starves the pickup.



Your transmission is likely already on its last legs and will fail soon.
You have little to lose by trying this.


>
> It would be interesting to see what the factory repair manual
> recommends, or maybe the 3-time change actually is what they
> recommend, anyone know?
>


The drain-and-fill-three-times IS the factory recommendation. You are
supposed to drive the car briefly between each drain and fill.

The multiple fill/drive/drain sequence compensates for the fact that the
torque converter has no drain.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On Mar 6, 6:41 am, Tegger > wrote:
>
> Your transmission is likely already on its last legs and will fail soon.
> You have little to lose by trying this.

Well, if the drain plug is not full of metal I think it should be
okay.

A "new" used transmission isn't that much anyway, freight costs more
than the tranny. Is it possible to drop the tranny out the bottom as
a shortcut?

> The drain-and-fill-three-times IS the factory recommendation. You are
> supposed to drive the car briefly between each drain and fill.

What is "briefly"? Mileage? Stay off the highway?

" > wrote in
oups.com:

> On Mar 6, 6:41 am, Tegger > wrote:
>>
>> Your transmission is likely already on its last legs and will fail soon.
>> You have little to lose by trying this.
>
> Well, if the drain plug is not full of metal I think it should be
> okay.
>



Clutch lining material does not stick to magnets.




> A "new" used transmission isn't that much anyway, freight costs more
> than the tranny. Is it possible to drop the tranny out the bottom as
> a shortcut?



That's the accepted way of removing a transmission. No need to pull the
engine too.



>
>> The drain-and-fill-three-times IS the factory recommendation. You are
>> supposed to drive the car briefly between each drain and fill.
>
> What is "briefly"? Mileage? Stay off the highway?
>
>


Long enough for the fluid in the torque converter to mix with the new fuid
in the pan. Once around the parking lot should do it.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On Mar 6, 11:00 am, Tegger > wrote:
>
> > Well, if the drain plug is not full of metal I think it should be
> > okay.
>
> Clutch lining material does not stick to magnets.

True, but then I should see it floating around IN the fluid, either
way the evidence should be visible.

> > What is "briefly"? Mileage? Stay off the highway?
>
> Long enough for the fluid in the torque converter to mix with the new fuid
> in the pan. Once around the parking lot should do it.

So then I can get the whole thing done in an afternoon. Now to find a
nice deserted parking lot since my landlord doesn't allow car
repairs...

" > wrote in
ups.com:

> On Mar 6, 11:00 am, Tegger > wrote:
>>
>> > Well, if the drain plug is not full of metal I think it should be
>> > okay.
>>
>> Clutch lining material does not stick to magnets.
>
> True, but then I should see it floating around IN the fluid, either
> way the evidence should be visible.



It sort of is. That's what makes the fluid black. Should you start finding
chunks or fragments in the fluid, the tranny's *really* pooched.



>
>> > What is "briefly"? Mileage? Stay off the highway?
>>
>> Long enough for the fluid in the torque converter to mix with the new
>> fuid in the pan. Once around the parking lot should do it.
>
> So then I can get the whole thing done in an afternoon. Now to find a
> nice deserted parking lot since my landlord doesn't allow car
> repairs...
>
>


I had the same problem when I lived in an apartment. I understand the
landlord's reasoning, but it still makes things more difficult.

And you do know how to check the fluid level in a Honda AT, do you? It's
not the same as most cars.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On Mar 6, 1:43 pm, Tegger > wrote:
>
> It sort of is. That's what makes the fluid black. Should you start finding
> chunks or fragments in the fluid, the tranny's *really* pooched.

Well, the fluid isn't black, it was still clear on the dipstick, just
more brown than red. Of course it's hard to tell what's going on just
from the dipstick.

> And you do know how to check the fluid level in a Honda AT, do you? It's
> not the same as most cars.

I checked it with the motor running after a short drive like my other
cars, but from your comment I'm guessing that's the wrong thing to
do. I made sure that the rubber seat of the dipstick "popped" back in
so the level would not be wrong. I didn't care so much about the exact
level as the condition of the fluid at the time, since it had not been
driven for quite a while and previous owner probably neglected it.

" > wrote in
ups.com:

> On Mar 6, 1:43 pm, Tegger > wrote:
>>
>> It sort of is. That's what makes the fluid black. Should you start
>> finding chunks or fragments in the fluid, the tranny's *really*
>> pooched.
>
> Well, the fluid isn't black, it was still clear on the dipstick, just
> more brown than red. Of course it's hard to tell what's going on just
> from the dipstick.



As I said before, a fluid change may not help your issue here, but it
certainly won't hurt. This is a cheap first-effort before looking for more
difficult stuff.

I'm suspecting you have deeper problems inside the transmission, either
sticking solenoids, or a sludged valve body.


>
>> And you do know how to check the fluid level in a Honda AT, do you?
>> It's not the same as most cars.
>
> I checked it with the motor running after a short drive like my other
> cars, but from your comment I'm guessing that's the wrong thing to
> do. I made sure that the rubber seat of the dipstick "popped" back in
> so the level would not be wrong. I didn't care so much about the exact
> level as the condition of the fluid at the time, since it had not been
> driven for quite a while and previous owner probably neglected it.
>
>


You SHUT THE ENGINE OFF, then check the level within one minute of shutting
the engine off.

Honda is different. What can I say?

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On Mar 7, 2:36 pm, Tegger > wrote:
>
> I'm suspecting you have deeper problems inside the transmission, either
> sticking solenoids, or a sludged valve body.

Here is something I didn't mention before (because I wasn't really
trying to "solve" the transmission problem, just wondering about the
dash LED). If I stomp on the pedal to where a load based downshift
would be imminent, but then manually shift down into third while
keeping the throttle open, it doesn't flare up. Isn't that strange?

> > I checked it with the motor running after a short drive like my other
> > cars, but from your comment I'm guessing that's the wrong thing to
> > do. I made sure that the rubber seat of the dipstick "popped" back in
> > so the level would not be wrong. I didn't care so much about the exact
> > level as the condition of the fluid at the time, since it had not been
> > driven for quite a while and previous owner probably neglected it.
>
> You SHUT THE ENGINE OFF, then check the level within one minute of shutting
> the engine off.
>
> Honda is different. What can I say?

Well that's good to know. They should print things like that on the
underhood label instead of burying it in the owner's manual, IMO.

" > wrote in
oups.com:

> On Mar 7, 2:36 pm, Tegger > wrote:
>>
>> I'm suspecting you have deeper problems inside the transmission,
>> either sticking solenoids, or a sludged valve body.
>
> Here is something I didn't mention before (because I wasn't really
> trying to "solve" the transmission problem, just wondering about the
> dash LED). If I stomp on the pedal to where a load based downshift
> would be imminent, but then manually shift down into third while
> keeping the throttle open, it doesn't flare up. Isn't that strange?



Nope. It narrows things down. You almost certainly have a bad shift
solenoid. A problem like this is supposed to make your "S" light blink, but
I guess that doesn't always happen.

jim beam rigged something up recently that allowed him to observe the
solenoids in operation.



>
>> > I checked it with the motor running after a short drive like my
>> > other cars, but from your comment I'm guessing that's the wrong
>> > thing to do. I made sure that the rubber seat of the dipstick
>> > "popped" back in so the level would not be wrong. I didn't care so
>> > much about the exact level as the condition of the fluid at the
>> > time, since it had not been driven for quite a while and previous
>> > owner probably neglected it.
>>
>> You SHUT THE ENGINE OFF, then check the level within one minute of
>> shutting the engine off.
>>
>> Honda is different. What can I say?
>
> Well that's good to know. They should print things like that on the
> underhood label instead of burying it in the owner's manual, IMO.
>


Especially when the other 99% of cars on the road are different from that.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/