Parts Prices. Dealer vs Online

Simon,

If the local dealer would sell parts at more reasonable prices or
alternatively, offer me a loyalty discount, then I would most likely buy
from them since I would also gain the advantage of getting the parts much
sooner.

Welcome to the global market! By the way, the discussion here is not
restricted to car dealers and automotive parts. Ebay is perhaps the best
example of how things have changed. As more consumers become tech savvy,
companies will need to become more competitive.

Bob

"Simon" > wrote in message
...
> Bob,
>
> Yes, I hear what you are saying.
>
> Obviously I have no knowledge of the dealers or people involved so I
> wouldn't presume to judge specifically on them or your situation but I
> will
> offer one thought...for the "remote" dealer any business he picks up from
> afar is "bonus" business with minimal added costs to obtain it so they can
> afford to sell you parts with a small mark-up to undercut your local
> dealer.
>
> It could be considered to be, in some respects, a somewhat unfair
> situation
> for your local dealer as every sale he makes has to contribute to his
> overhead whereas the internet selling dealer already has his overhead
> taken
> care of by his local sales.
>
> Just think of the bigger picture...if every dealer sold on the internet at
> lower prices then no-one would buy locally and all we would be doing is
> shipping parts around the country for no particular gain as, eventually,
> all
> the dealers would be at a similar price point because by then they would
> have lost their local sales.
>
> OK, I know this won't happen but it is the logical extension of what is
> currently happening.
>
> Simon.

howard wrote:
> A discount parts selling Chrysler dealership is NEARBY to someone!
> Drop in and ask if they will match a legitimate price from the internet for
> the same part.

Like I said, the one near me doesn't even discount to the local body shops!

> Offer to "split" the shipping you would have paid if ordered on-line if
> necessary.
>
> Even consider the availability of it right now instead of about a weeks wait
> and a return trip.
> Even think of having to "return" it and the time necessary if it is I-net
> ordered.

While everyone makes mistakes, some of the on-line dealers are very good
about double checking part numbers and everything before completing the
order. Mistakes are rare with the one I deal with.

The small dealer stocks *only* the common stuff like fluids - pretty
much zero parts - so they always have to order *anything* I need. I can
order from a dealer in OH from their web site and have it either the
next day or the second day after I order by ground shipping. That beats
the dealer across the street from me by 2 to 3 days typically.

> A true story........I worked in a NAPA store for about 2 years about 30
> years ago. As all NAPA stores, there was a multi-tiered pricing set of
> colored sheets. One of our "local" PIA retail buyers/tinkerers would come
> in, waste time, pick our brains (slim pickins at times), get all the free
> information, alternative company numbers and so on. Finally after getting
> the bottom price (like there is one), he would leave and then see what Sears
> (long time ago) or a catalog company (mail-order) would have and their
> price. He would even call and ask about the "garage" price for the same
> item.
> This guy would come in, show us the price and demand we match it. The store
> owner finally got tired of this and said SURE, I will match the price! He
> consummated the sale, did not ask for shipping and put the part on the
> counter. Guy went to pick it up, owner grabbed it back and said come in NEXT
> WEEK and pick it up! Just like the wait for a catalog store! Guy got miffed
> (to put it mildly) and became a lot scarcer in the store.

Hah! I don't blame the owner for doing that.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

"Percival P. Cassidy" > writes:

> I did get caught by dealing with an online supplier -- IIRC, an
> authorized dealer in Illinois.
>
> I ordered several items, some of which were special-order and for
> which I had to pay up front. The in-stock items were shipped
> immediately, but by the time I got round to checking again on the
> special-order items, the dealer was out of business. Visiting the
> original Web site redirected me to the Web site of the co. that had
> bought out the original one, and they claimed that they had bought
> only the vehicle sales business, not the parts business. It wasn't
> worth the time, trouble, and cost (legal fees) of trying to sort it
> all out.

Note that you could have had exactly the same experience with a local
dealer.

Years and years ago, we ordered some furniture from a store in town
(not auto parts, but I think the lessons apply). When the delivery
date came and went we tried to phone them... and got the phone
company's recorded "disconnected" message. We went by the store, and
found a padlock on the door, with a notice saying the landlord had had
it padlocked due to non-payment of rent. Uh, oh.

A little bit of research later, we established the company was still
in business in Albuquerque. After a short chat with an attorney
friend, we decided there was enough money involved that it was worth
while to sue them in small claims court to establish our right to the
money. We did, they didn't show up for the hearing, we got a judgment
for the money they owed us plus a hundred bucks or so in court costs.

We went to our credit card company with the judgment, and they
refunded our money (fortunately, the furniture company had been using
a single bank account for both of their stores, so the credit card
company was able to extract the money. Otherwise, things would have
gotten more interesting). The court costs weren't enough to be worth
pursuing from 200 miles away, so we never got that back.

In retrospect, we could have skipped the lawsuit, but we had visions
of the furniture company going back to the credit card company
claiming to have delivered the furniture and wanted to avoid any
possible fights.

"Bill Putney" > wrote in message
...
> Simon wrote:
>
>> It could be considered to be, in some respects, a somewhat unfair
>> situation
>> for your local dealer as every sale he makes has to contribute to his
>> overhead whereas the internet selling dealer already has his overhead
>> taken
>> care of by his local sales.
>
> What do you mean unfair advantage? Who held a gun to your local dealer's
> head and said "You are forbidden to set up an on-line business!". We (so
> far) live in a free market society where both dealers have the same
> choices. One dealer chooses to do that, the other doesn't. Key word:
> "CHOOSES".
>
> The on-line discount dealers are simply local dealers who decided to also
> do business on the internet. The dealer in site of my house has no
> complaint - they could have made the *exact* same business decision.
> Again, key word: "Decision". Instead, they choose to stay strictly with
> their local business and charge 10 to 20% *OVER* list (and the on-line
> dealer I do business with may do the same for their local customers for
> all I know). The dealer near me also does not even give discounts to
> local car businesses (body shops, etc.) because they are the only game in
> town (as far as the general public knows) and they can, so they do.
>
> It's called free enterprise. Enjoy it while you can.
>
> --
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address
> with the letter 'x')

Yes, I get it Bill.

Maybe you hadn't noticed that I had mentioned I HAD been under the
IMPRESSION that franchised dealers were restricted to only selling within a
pre-described region and I asked if this is, in fact, the case.

If it IS the case then the online dealers may end up losing their franchise.
If it is OK by Chrysler to sell that way then of course, it is every man for
himself. That said, the dealers in larger centres have an obvious advantage
over those in smaller centres so I still think it is a bit hard on "local"
dealers if their local customers buy elsewhere. It is a vicious cycle...the
lower the sales the higher he has to mark them up to cover his costs...don't
be surprised if you don't have a local dealer at all in the near future.

Now, if you are saying that your local dealer is a crook who is making a
fortune and ripping people off with his pricing then well, fair enough, take
your business elsewhere. Have you ever had a conversation with him about his
prices? It might be interesting to find out what his thinking actually is.

So, what is the deal with Chrysler...is selling outside the franchised
region OK or not?

Simon.

Yes, but how does a physical dealership with all the associated costs
compete with an online warehouse type of business? It is an unfair fight.
The online sellers cream off the easy sales while the dealer is left to take
on the heavy lifting.

Really, the dealership as we know it is pretty much doomed....clearly a new
business model is needed...one more area where the auto manufacturers have
failed to move with the times.



"Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
...
> Simon,
>
> If the local dealer would sell parts at more reasonable prices or
> alternatively, offer me a loyalty discount, then I would most likely buy
> from them since I would also gain the advantage of getting the parts much
> sooner.
>
> Welcome to the global market! By the way, the discussion here is not
> restricted to car dealers and automotive parts. Ebay is perhaps the best
> example of how things have changed. As more consumers become tech savvy,
> companies will need to become more competitive.
>
> Bob
>
> "Simon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Bob,
>>
>> Yes, I hear what you are saying.
>>
>> Obviously I have no knowledge of the dealers or people involved so I
>> wouldn't presume to judge specifically on them or your situation but I
>> will
>> offer one thought...for the "remote" dealer any business he picks up from
>> afar is "bonus" business with minimal added costs to obtain it so they
>> can
>> afford to sell you parts with a small mark-up to undercut your local
>> dealer.
>>
>> It could be considered to be, in some respects, a somewhat unfair
>> situation
>> for your local dealer as every sale he makes has to contribute to his
>> overhead whereas the internet selling dealer already has his overhead
>> taken
>> care of by his local sales.
>>
>> Just think of the bigger picture...if every dealer sold on the internet
>> at
>> lower prices then no-one would buy locally and all we would be doing is
>> shipping parts around the country for no particular gain as, eventually,
>> all
>> the dealers would be at a similar price point because by then they would
>> have lost their local sales.
>>
>> OK, I know this won't happen but it is the logical extension of what is
>> currently happening.
>>
>> Simon.
>
>

"News" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Simon wrote:
>> "News" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>>>> On 03/10/09 09:35 pm Bob Shuman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Simon,
>>>>>
>>>>> The local dealer has the opportunity to give me a discount, but
>>>>> chooses not
>>>>> to do so ... I therefore only use them when I have no other choice.
>>>>> If they
>>>>> are losing business, then it is by their own choice of business
>>>>> practices.
>>>>> Likewise, if the out of state dealer sees opportunity for increased
>>>>> profit,
>>>>> then good for them.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, I am on a first name email basis with some of the parts
>>>>> counter
>>>>> guys at those out of state dealerships. I've dealt with some for
>>>>> several
>>>>> years and we have a relationship built on trust. I wish I could say
>>>>> the
>>>>> same for the local parts guys, but this is not the case.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I am sorry. I was under a misapprehension about these "on-line
>>>>>> dealers"...it hadn't occurred to me that they were actual franchised
>>>>>> dealers because, to my understanding, that is the antithesis of the
>>>>>> purpose of a franchise....which by my understanding is that a dealer
>>>>>> buys
>>>>>> the right to sell Chrysler products in a specific geographic area. I
>>>>>> didn't think the manufacturer allowed a dealer to promote sales
>>>>>> outside a
>>>>>> certain radius of their base....am I wrong here? I know I would be
>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>> steamed if I spent a million dollars or more setting up a dealership
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> to find I was losing sales to someone two states away. To my mind
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> defeats the whole system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, from a consumer point of view, if the savings are there, go
>>>>>> for it
>>>>>> by all means. Personally I prefer to deal locally and support local
>>>>>> business people as long as they are fair operators. Even though I
>>>>>> sell
>>>>>> over the internet there are certain sectors that I don't feel
>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>> with buying online. The automotive world is known to be riddled with
>>>>>> crooked operators, to my mind dealing with someone hundreds or
>>>>>> thousands
>>>>>> of miles away only increases the risk of getting ripped off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Each to his own, I guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Simon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I did get caught by dealing with an online supplier -- IIRC, an
>>>> authorized dealer in Illinois.
>>>>
>>>> I ordered several items, some of which were special-order and for which
>>>> I had to pay up front. The in-stock items were shipped immediately, but
>>>> by the time I got round to checking again on the special-order items,
>>>> the dealer was out of business. Visiting the original Web site
>>>> redirected me to the Web site of the co. that had bought out the
>>>> original one, and they claimed that they had bought only the vehicle
>>>> sales business, not the parts business. It wasn't worth the time,
>>>> trouble, and cost (legal fees) of trying to sort it all out.
>>>
>>> That's why you use a credit card... To get your funds and charge them
>>> back.
>>
>> Fine and dandy but who compensates you for the hassle and being without
>> your vehicle etc. etc. ?
>>
>> Plus, in the case cited of a dealer gone out of business not even a
>> credit card company can get the money back if there isn't any there.
>
>
> Can't compensate for opportunity cost, but it's the CC issuer's job to get
> THEIR money back. YOU will have YOURS by law.

Can you read at all?

Simon wrote:
> Yes, but how does a physical dealership with all the associated costs
> compete with an online warehouse type of business? It is an unfair fight.
> The online sellers cream off the easy sales while the dealer is left to take
> on the heavy lifting.

It is what it is. So what's your point?

If you want to talk "fair" (I don't know why you keep bringing that word
up), the local dealer has an advantage in that 98% of the public is
ignorant of the existence of discount on-line dealers - so they can keep
soaking them at 10 to 20% above list. With the typical customer being
totally captive for both service *and* parts, what's fair about that.
Talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight!

> Really, the dealership as we know it is pretty much doomed....clearly a new
> business model is needed...one more area where the auto manufacturers have
> failed to move with the times.

Maybe. You're saying in a way it's like the mom & pop hardware store
competing with Lowes. I'll give you that. So if that's the better
business model, what's the complaint? Shouldn't a better business model
win out over the dinosaur business model.

Again - what is your point?

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:12:20 -0400, News > wrote:

>
>
>Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>> On 03/10/09 09:35 pm Bob Shuman wrote:
>>
>>> Simon,
>>>
>>> The local dealer has the opportunity to give me a discount, but
>>> chooses not
>>> to do so ... I therefore only use them when I have no other choice.
>>> If they
>>> are losing business, then it is by their own choice of business
>>> practices.
>>> Likewise, if the out of state dealer sees opportunity for increased
>>> profit,
>>> then good for them.
>>>
>>> By the way, I am on a first name email basis with some of the parts
>>> counter
>>> guys at those out of state dealerships. I've dealt with some for several
>>> years and we have a relationship built on trust. I wish I could say the
>>> same for the local parts guys, but this is not the case.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Bob,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I am sorry. I was under a misapprehension about these "on-line
>>>> dealers"...it hadn't occurred to me that they were actual franchised
>>>> dealers because, to my understanding, that is the antithesis of the
>>>> purpose of a franchise....which by my understanding is that a dealer
>>>> buys
>>>> the right to sell Chrysler products in a specific geographic area. I
>>>> didn't think the manufacturer allowed a dealer to promote sales
>>>> outside a
>>>> certain radius of their base....am I wrong here? I know I would be
>>>> pretty
>>>> steamed if I spent a million dollars or more setting up a dealership
>>>> only
>>>> to find I was losing sales to someone two states away. To my mind that
>>>> defeats the whole system.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, from a consumer point of view, if the savings are there, go
>>>> for it
>>>> by all means. Personally I prefer to deal locally and support local
>>>> business people as long as they are fair operators. Even though I sell
>>>> over the internet there are certain sectors that I don't feel
>>>> comfortable
>>>> with buying online. The automotive world is known to be riddled with
>>>> crooked operators, to my mind dealing with someone hundreds or thousands
>>>> of miles away only increases the risk of getting ripped off.
>>>>
>>>> Each to his own, I guess.
>>>>
>>>> Simon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I did get caught by dealing with an online supplier -- IIRC, an
>> authorized dealer in Illinois.
>>
>> I ordered several items, some of which were special-order and for which
>> I had to pay up front. The in-stock items were shipped immediately, but
>> by the time I got round to checking again on the special-order items,
>> the dealer was out of business. Visiting the original Web site
>> redirected me to the Web site of the co. that had bought out the
>> original one, and they claimed that they had bought only the vehicle
>> sales business, not the parts business. It wasn't worth the time,
>> trouble, and cost (legal fees) of trying to sort it all out.
>
>
>That's why you use a credit card... To get your funds and charge them back.

It even happens to non-internet dealer operations. Two weeks ago,
Desert Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge was happily doing business here in Las
Vegas. A coworker dropped his car off for service that morning, with
business as usual.
Then at 5:00 PM, the GM got everyone together and told them, based on
decisions at "AutoNation" group, they were closed as of that moment.
Clean out your personal belongings and leave The only exception was
for customers picking up their cars from service. .

Simon wrote:
> "News" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Simon wrote:
>>> "News" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>>>>> On 03/10/09 09:35 pm Bob Shuman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Simon,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The local dealer has the opportunity to give me a discount, but
>>>>>> chooses not
>>>>>> to do so ... I therefore only use them when I have no other choice.
>>>>>> If they
>>>>>> are losing business, then it is by their own choice of business
>>>>>> practices.
>>>>>> Likewise, if the out of state dealer sees opportunity for increased
>>>>>> profit,
>>>>>> then good for them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, I am on a first name email basis with some of the parts
>>>>>> counter
>>>>>> guys at those out of state dealerships. I've dealt with some for
>>>>>> several
>>>>>> years and we have a relationship built on trust. I wish I could say
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same for the local parts guys, but this is not the case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I am sorry. I was under a misapprehension about these "on-line
>>>>>>> dealers"...it hadn't occurred to me that they were actual franchised
>>>>>>> dealers because, to my understanding, that is the antithesis of the
>>>>>>> purpose of a franchise....which by my understanding is that a dealer
>>>>>>> buys
>>>>>>> the right to sell Chrysler products in a specific geographic area. I
>>>>>>> didn't think the manufacturer allowed a dealer to promote sales
>>>>>>> outside a
>>>>>>> certain radius of their base....am I wrong here? I know I would be
>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>> steamed if I spent a million dollars or more setting up a dealership
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> to find I was losing sales to someone two states away. To my mind
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> defeats the whole system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, from a consumer point of view, if the savings are there, go
>>>>>>> for it
>>>>>>> by all means. Personally I prefer to deal locally and support local
>>>>>>> business people as long as they are fair operators. Even though I
>>>>>>> sell
>>>>>>> over the internet there are certain sectors that I don't feel
>>>>>>> comfortable
>>>>>>> with buying online. The automotive world is known to be riddled with
>>>>>>> crooked operators, to my mind dealing with someone hundreds or
>>>>>>> thousands
>>>>>>> of miles away only increases the risk of getting ripped off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Each to his own, I guess.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Simon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> I did get caught by dealing with an online supplier -- IIRC, an
>>>>> authorized dealer in Illinois.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ordered several items, some of which were special-order and for which
>>>>> I had to pay up front. The in-stock items were shipped immediately, but
>>>>> by the time I got round to checking again on the special-order items,
>>>>> the dealer was out of business. Visiting the original Web site
>>>>> redirected me to the Web site of the co. that had bought out the
>>>>> original one, and they claimed that they had bought only the vehicle
>>>>> sales business, not the parts business. It wasn't worth the time,
>>>>> trouble, and cost (legal fees) of trying to sort it all out.
>>>> That's why you use a credit card... To get your funds and charge them
>>>> back.
>>> Fine and dandy but who compensates you for the hassle and being without
>>> your vehicle etc. etc. ?
>>>
>>> Plus, in the case cited of a dealer gone out of business not even a
>>> credit card company can get the money back if there isn't any there.
>>
>> Can't compensate for opportunity cost, but it's the CC issuer's job to get
>> THEIR money back. YOU will have YOURS by law.
>
> Can you read at all?


Same question for you.

QX wrote:

> It even happens to non-internet dealer operations.

Even though the OP claims to run his own business, he seems to have
trouble comprehending the simplest of business concepts or realities
such as the one you just presented, or that there's no difference
between the "local" dealer and the "local" dealer who *also* does
internet business other than that the latter *also* does the internet
business which the former could do if they so chose, and yet, something
about that is "unfair".

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')