Need help interperting OBD II information

aarcuda69062 wrote:
> In article
> .com>,
> "Comboverfish" > wrote:
>
> > aarcuda69062 wrote:
> >
> > > The OP should verify that there is no coolant leaking from the
> > > water pump onto the crankshaft position sensor(s).
> >
> > Good point! That's a sign that you do this kind of work every day : )
>
> naaah... some days, I do front end rebuilds... ;-)
>
> > Toyota MDT in MO
> >
> > P.S. I have no doubt his OBDII AE software is reporting the P0336
> > correctly given the circumstances. I think the problem is more
> > prominent with the enhanced software screwing up FR and other GM
> > specific historical code data. I'm really leaning towards getting AE
> > based on the price. It's a hell of a hobby scanner if nothing else.
>
> I'm pretty happy with it.
>
> Very strong on Ford, very strong on GM, as strong as I've seen on
> Toyota, a little weak on Chrysler but they (Jay) say it's in the
> works.

So, did you throw off the "golden handcuffs" of the Snap On VCI yet?
(""=your words)

I'm debating on a trade in Solus deal, but not until they impliment
better Toyota functionality. I mean like having sensor data for a
certain year range but not having it for the same powertrain system in
a different year range; lacking simple data, not being able to
customize a data list during active testing, etc. My MTG2500 graphing
doesn't even work on the manufacturer side, and the Generic OBD
graphing resolution doesn't impress in the least. I wonder how much
has to do with the limited storage capacity of the VCI verses the CF
card + onboard storage of the Solus? Sometimes I think a Genisys would
be better, but then I slap myself.

Have you used the Mastertech for Toyota as a comparison to AE?

Toyota MDT in MO

In article
.com>,
"Comboverfish" > wrote:

> > Very strong on Ford, very strong on GM, as strong as I've seen on
> > Toyota, a little weak on Chrysler but they (Jay) say it's in the
> > works.
>
> So, did you throw off the "golden handcuffs" of the Snap On VCI yet?
> (""=your words)

heh-heh-heh... In the span of a week and a half, that's two
people who've brought that up. The other was John Thornton.

> I'm debating on a trade in Solus deal, but not until they impliment
> better Toyota functionality.

Another shop owner in town here had a Solus for a loaner for 3
months while his Modis was in for repair. He hated that thing so
bad I loaned him my other brick to use.

> I mean like having sensor data for a
> certain year range but not having it for the same powertrain system in
> a different year range;

Yup.

> lacking simple data,

Been there.

> not being able to
> customize a data list during active testing, etc.

Done that.

> My MTG2500 graphing
> doesn't even work on the manufacturer side,

Just like how my Scan Grafix doesn't always work on some OBD2
stuff.

> and the Generic OBD
> graphing resolution doesn't impress in the least.

May have more to do with generic data rates than it does the tool.

> I wonder how much
> has to do with the limited storage capacity of the VCI verses the CF
> card + onboard storage of the Solus?

And when the Solus is maxed out in a couple of years, then what?

> Sometimes I think a Genisys would
> be better, but then I slap myself.

I was close to buying a Genisys a couple of years ago, then I
started reading all the horror stories and rethought that idea.

> Have you used the Mastertech for Toyota as a comparison to AE?

Haven't touched a Mastertech in ten years, we had one in the Wis.
IM-240 program for diagnosing ping-pong cars, that and a CAS
SuperGuide <spit>. The Mastertech was great, the SuperGuide was
so bad, I brought my Counsellor 2 in from home.

If you wind up getting the AE, I'd be interested in hearing how
it compares to the Mastertech w/Toyota software.

aarcuda69062 > wrote in news:nonelson-
:


>
> Haven't touched a Mastertech in ten years, we had one in the Wis.
> IM-240 program for diagnosing ping-pong cars,



"Ping-pong cars"?


--
TeGGeR

Thanks Lawrence, I have tried two scanners.

On Nov 20, 9:59 pm, aarcuda69062 > wrote:
> In article >,
> Lawrence Glickman > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 20 Nov 2006 17:00:42 -0800, wrote:
>
> > >Hello Everyone,
>
> > > First, thank you for trying to help me. I have a 1997
> > >Buick Riviera with a GM 3800 II supercharged engine. Two dealers and my
> > >local mechanic can not figure out what the problem is. The problem is
> > >as follows:
>
> > >1. The car will attempt to stall out (and sometimes does) at red
> > >lights. Sometimes it will restart, others it will just crank. If I let
> > >the car sit there it will eventually start.
>
> > >2. If I drive the car to operating temperature and then allow the car
> > >to sit there until the temp is around 160 the car will not restart, it
> > >will only crank. I do hear the fuel pump prime. If I let it cool down
> > >to under 160 it starts. Recently the car has not restarted at 200
> > >degrees.
>
> > >3. If I am driving, the car will just turn off. Sometimes it will
> > >restart on its own. Sometimes I have to pull over, wait a few seconds
> > >and then it will start. Sometimes when I pull over, the RPM gauge is at
> > >0 and the engine is very faintly firing.
>
> > >I have replaced the ignition module and the coil packs. I have replaced
> > >the plugs and plug wires. The car throws a Crankshaft Position Sensor
> > >but the dealers and mechanic checked the crank shaft position sensor
> > >and say it is OK.
>
> > >I purchased OBD II software and recorded a few pages. If you could take
> > >a look at it I would appreciate it.
>
> > >The first was sitting at idle at operating temp. The second is at 2500
> > >RPM. The last shot was the code that was thrown at a stall and the
> > >freeze frame.
>
> > >http://www.wildlifereserve.org/riviera_112006.doc
>
> > >OR
>
> > >http://www.wildlifereserve.org/riviera_112006.pdf
>
> > >The doc is 700K the PDF is 1MB. Sorry they are so big. Thanks for
> > >checking it out.
>
> > >Any questions, or ideas please post.
>
> > >Thanks,
>
> > >Sam
>
> > B1S2 fuel trim reads 99%
>
> > that is way out of bounds for a normal engine.In 1997, GM didn't use the post cat oxygen sensor to calculate
> fuel trim. IOWs, it's a bogus reading.
>
> The OP may want to purchase the enhanced software from Auto
> Enginuity and use it to graph the two crankshaft position sensor
> signals at the time of stall. (if the enhanced does in fact
> report the two crank position sensors as a PID)
> The OP may also want to verify the P0336 trouble code with a
> different scan tool/code reader because there have been instances
> of AE reporting trouble codes incorrectly.
> The OP should verify that there is no coolant leaking from the
> water pump onto the crankshaft position sensor(s).- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

When I hit the gas the values change. Not much but they change. I'll
take your word for it though.

On Nov 20, 10:06 pm, Don > wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:40:07 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On 20 Nov 2006 17:00:42 -0800, wrote:
>
> >>Hello Everyone,
>
> >> First, thank you for trying to help me. I have a 1997
> >>Buick Riviera with a GM 3800 II supercharged engine. Two dealers and my
> >>local mechanic can not figure out what the problem is. The problem is
> >>as follows:
>
> >>1. The car will attempt to stall out (and sometimes does) at red
> >>lights. Sometimes it will restart, others it will just crank. If I let
> >>the car sit there it will eventually start.
>
> >>2. If I drive the car to operating temperature and then allow the car
> >>to sit there until the temp is around 160 the car will not restart, it
> >>will only crank. I do hear the fuel pump prime. If I let it cool down
> >>to under 160 it starts. Recently the car has not restarted at 200
> >>degrees.
>
> >>3. If I am driving, the car will just turn off. Sometimes it will
> >>restart on its own. Sometimes I have to pull over, wait a few seconds
> >>and then it will start. Sometimes when I pull over, the RPM gauge is at
> >>0 and the engine is very faintly firing.
>
> >>I have replaced the ignition module and the coil packs. I have replaced
> >>the plugs and plug wires. The car throws a Crankshaft Position Sensor
> >>but the dealers and mechanic checked the crank shaft position sensor
> >>and say it is OK.
>
> >>I purchased OBD II software and recorded a few pages. If you could take
> >>a look at it I would appreciate it.
>
> >>The first was sitting at idle at operating temp. The second is at 2500
> >>RPM. The last shot was the code that was thrown at a stall and the
> >>freeze frame.
>
> >>http://www.wildlifereserve.org/riviera_112006.doc
>
> >>OR
>
> >>http://www.wildlifereserve.org/riviera_112006.pdf
>
> >>The doc is 700K the PDF is 1MB. Sorry they are so big. Thanks for
> >>checking it out.
>
> >>Any questions, or ideas please post.
>
> >>Thanks,
>
> >>Sam
>
> >B1S2 fuel trim reads 99%Whenever you see that the data is not valid due to scan tool function
> or other cause.
>
> Donwww.donsautomotive.com
>
>
>
>
>
> >that is way out of bounds for a normal engine.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

In article >,
"TeGGeR®" > wrote:

> aarcuda69062 > wrote in news:nonelson-
> :
>
>
> >
> > Haven't touched a Mastertech in ten years, we had one in the Wis.
> > IM-240 program for diagnosing ping-pong cars,
>
>
>
> "Ping-pong cars"?

Cars that were being ping-ponged back and forth between the
repair shop and the test station.

After the second failure, the customer could bring the car into
one of two diagnostic facilities in Milwaukee and have free
diagnostics performed to assist in getting the car to pass.

We also did technician outreach, answered a diagnostic hotline
and did damage investigations.

Pulling rabbits out of a hat 80 hours a week... ;-)

Whats odd is that when the car doesnt start when it's cold down a bit
it consistantly does it at 170 degrees.


wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> First, thank you for trying to help me. I have a 1997
> Buick Riviera with a GM 3800 II supercharged engine. Two dealers and my
> local mechanic can not figure out what the problem is. The problem is
> as follows:
>
> 1. The car will attempt to stall out (and sometimes does) at red
> lights. Sometimes it will restart, others it will just crank. If I let
> the car sit there it will eventually start.
>
> 2. If I drive the car to operating temperature and then allow the car
> to sit there until the temp is around 160 the car will not restart, it
> will only crank. I do hear the fuel pump prime. If I let it cool down
> to under 160 it starts. Recently the car has not restarted at 200
> degrees.
>
> 3. If I am driving, the car will just turn off. Sometimes it will
> restart on its own. Sometimes I have to pull over, wait a few seconds
> and then it will start. Sometimes when I pull over, the RPM gauge is at
> 0 and the engine is very faintly firing.
>
> I have replaced the ignition module and the coil packs. I have replaced
> the plugs and plug wires. The car throws a Crankshaft Position Sensor
> but the dealers and mechanic checked the crank shaft position sensor
> and say it is OK.
>
> I purchased OBD II software and recorded a few pages. If you could take
> a look at it I would appreciate it.
>
> The first was sitting at idle at operating temp. The second is at 2500
> RPM. The last shot was the code that was thrown at a stall and the
> freeze frame.
>
> http://www.wildlifereserve.org/riviera_112006.doc
>
> OR
>
> http://www.wildlifereserve.org/riviera_112006.pdf
>
> The doc is 700K the PDF is 1MB. Sorry they are so big. Thanks for
> checking it out.
>
> Any questions, or ideas please post.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sam

> wrote:
>The job is about $380. The part is cheap but the labor is crazy. That's
>a little too much to swap without knowing for sure. =(

I don't know where it is on that car, so I can't say if you should try it
yourself or not.

But, I'd still check the fuel pressure.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 21 Nov 2006 04:20:19 -0800, wrote:

>Thanks Lawrence, I have tried two scanners.
>
>On Nov 20, 9:59 pm, aarcuda69062 > wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Lawrence Glickman > wrote:

Sokay.
aarcuda is the boss. He has the knowledge and experience...period.
End of story. Anyone who challenges one of his diagnoses is an ass.

That said, I went out just because of _your_ problem, and checked my
own sensors. They look fine afaik. 2 different scanners also. Davis
Drive Right and Actron 9145 each read
B1S1
B1S2
B2S1
B2S2

Then I compared them over a number of trips, and all looks OK to me.
The point is, I would rather have a computer tell me what is wrong,
than fudge around with a hand held voltmeter under the hood with the
engine running...trying to backprobe these things, especially
considering where they are located is hot Hot HOT.

I also monitor my STFT's and LTFT's, and see nothing out of the
ordinary on my -own- vehicle. Well, it runs fine but I only have a
little over 25,000 miles on it, so this is what one would expect.

Fortunately? my engine has been around so long, in the chassis of most
Tauri (plural of Taurus?) that it is pretty well known where its
strength and weaknesses are. It's pretty well documented on the web.

It is my first and only computer-controlled vehicle, so I have no
reference points for anything else, except carbureted junkers that
never cost me more than $200 cash up front ( repairing them cost more
).

Those *beaters* as I call them lasted me many years, but they nickled
and dimed me to death in parts and time to repair. Living without a
car here is out of the question. It is a necessity...not a
convenience. Thusly my newfound interest in the Topic, and my
presence on the n/g, sucking up information.

Because I have scanners, I can theoretically save myself grief. The
idea is to Pass Inspection. If I don't, I can't re-register my car
until I can. I'm given X number of days to repair, and return for
reinspection. If I am going to drive on invalid plates, I'm asking
for jail and a stiff fine.

Lg

If you have no spark, or injector pulse/rpm readings on the scanner when
this occurs, as all have mentioned this very likely a cps, the time and cost
of the equipment to defintively track this down for most, is prohibitive.
> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Whats odd is that when the car doesnt start when it's cold down a bit
> it consistantly does it at 170 degrees.
>
>
> wrote:
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> First, thank you for trying to help me. I have a 1997
>> Buick Riviera with a GM 3800 II supercharged engine. Two dealers and my
>> local mechanic can not figure out what the problem is. The problem is
>> as follows:
>>
>> 1. The car will attempt to stall out (and sometimes does) at red
>> lights. Sometimes it will restart, others it will just crank. If I let
>> the car sit there it will eventually start.
>>
>> 2. If I drive the car to operating temperature and then allow the car
>> to sit there until the temp is around 160 the car will not restart, it
>> will only crank. I do hear the fuel pump prime. If I let it cool down
>> to under 160 it starts. Recently the car has not restarted at 200
>> degrees.
>>
>> 3. If I am driving, the car will just turn off. Sometimes it will
>> restart on its own. Sometimes I have to pull over, wait a few seconds
>> and then it will start. Sometimes when I pull over, the RPM gauge is at
>> 0 and the engine is very faintly firing.
>>
>> I have replaced the ignition module and the coil packs. I have replaced
>> the plugs and plug wires. The car throws a Crankshaft Position Sensor
>> but the dealers and mechanic checked the crank shaft position sensor
>> and say it is OK.
>>
>> I purchased OBD II software and recorded a few pages. If you could take
>> a look at it I would appreciate it.
>>
>> The first was sitting at idle at operating temp. The second is at 2500
>> RPM. The last shot was the code that was thrown at a stall and the
>> freeze frame.
>>
>> http://www.wildlifereserve.org/riviera_112006.doc
>>
>> OR
>>
>> http://www.wildlifereserve.org/riviera_112006.pdf
>>
>> The doc is 700K the PDF is 1MB. Sorry they are so big. Thanks for
>> checking it out.
>>
>> Any questions, or ideas please post.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Sam
>



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