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1989 ford f-150 start troubles



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 8th 05, 04:41 AM
Swabbie
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Posts: n/a
Default 1989 ford f-150 start troubles

this is a problem that has plagued this truck for about 2 years now. I have
posted this problem on about every ford tech site on the net. Still no go.
heres the situation,
the truck will crank right up, and drive perfectly to wherever I am going. I
then turn it off.
If it has been about 30 miles or so, it will NOT restart until it has sat
for about 15 minutes(as if it needs to cool down).
it tries to turn over, but will crank like a low battery. Jumping it does
nothing. It has to sit for about 15 minutes minimum, Then it will crank
right up like nothing was wrong.
Of course this doesn't happen if its a short trip. Only if the truck has
been driven 30 miles or so.

now heres what I have done/changed:
the obvious guess would be the starter, perhaps bushings heating up..but,
I've been through 2 of them..NO DIFFERENCE! one remanufactured, the other a
new motorcraft.

next, is the battery..brand new, new cables and leads. ground is good and
tight to motor.
I even ran a bigger gauge lead to the starter, no difference.
I've changed plugs, wires, solenoid under hood, and still NO GO.
Someone suggested that it had jumped time...checked it with light and its
perfect.
distributor you say? NOPE..new one too.

any ideas? it sucks to HAVE to stay somewhere for at least 20 minutes.








--
d

Ads
  #2  
Old March 8th 05, 05:03 AM
Lawrence Glickman
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 03:41:02 GMT, "Swabbie" > wrote:

>this is a problem that has plagued this truck for about 2 years now. I have
>posted this problem on about every ford tech site on the net. Still no go.
>heres the situation,
>the truck will crank right up, and drive perfectly to wherever I am going. I
>then turn it off.
>If it has been about 30 miles or so, it will NOT restart until it has sat
>for about 15 minutes(as if it needs to cool down).
>it tries to turn over, but will crank like a low battery. Jumping it does
>nothing. It has to sit for about 15 minutes minimum, Then it will crank
>right up like nothing was wrong.
>Of course this doesn't happen if its a short trip. Only if the truck has
>been driven 30 miles or so.


WHAT is your battery voltage immediately after you turn OFF the engine
after your 30 mile drive?

WHAT is your battery voltage when you successfully restart it after it
has "cooled off" ??????????????

Enquiring minds want to know.

Lg


>
>now heres what I have done/changed:
>the obvious guess would be the starter, perhaps bushings heating up..but,
>I've been through 2 of them..NO DIFFERENCE! one remanufactured, the other a
>new motorcraft.
>
>next, is the battery..brand new, new cables and leads. ground is good and
>tight to motor.
>I even ran a bigger gauge lead to the starter, no difference.
>I've changed plugs, wires, solenoid under hood, and still NO GO.
>Someone suggested that it had jumped time...checked it with light and its
>perfect.
>distributor you say? NOPE..new one too.
>
>any ideas? it sucks to HAVE to stay somewhere for at least 20 minutes.


  #3  
Old March 8th 05, 05:46 AM
Winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Swabbie wrote:
> this is a problem that has plagued this truck for about 2 years now. I
> have posted this problem on about every ford tech site on the net. Still
> no go.
> heres the situation,
> the truck will crank right up, and drive perfectly to wherever I am
> going. I then turn it off.
> If it has been about 30 miles or so, it will NOT restart until it has
> sat for about 15 minutes(as if it needs to cool down).


Stick? Automatic?

How much current goes to the starter under each condition?
About the same or much more or less under the fault condition?

Can you reproduce the problem with an unpressurized cooling system?
(Loosen the radiator cap before starting?)

If you remove the sparkplugs after the failure, does the engine spin
up at about the right RPM or is it still bogged down, indicating
perhaps a main bearing problem?

Oil look ok? Not 'creamy' as if water has gotten in?

Blue Sky Department:
Sick F.I. computer injecting liquid gas into a couple cylinders?
Sick injector(s) sticking open when heated?
Head gasket leak putting incompressable water in a couple cylinders?

--Winston

  #4  
Old March 8th 05, 06:51 PM
Swabbie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Winston" > wrote in message
...
> Swabbie wrote:
>> this is a problem that has plagued this truck for about 2 years now. I
>> have posted this problem on about every ford tech site on the net. Still
>> no go.
>> heres the situation,
>> the truck will crank right up, and drive perfectly to wherever I am
>> going. I then turn it off.
>> If it has been about 30 miles or so, it will NOT restart until it has sat
>> for about 15 minutes(as if it needs to cool down).

>
> Stick? Automatic? auto
>
> How much current goes to the starter under each condition?
> About the same or much more or less under the fault condition?checked it
> today, its the same
>
> Can you reproduce the problem with an unpressurized cooling system?
> (Loosen the radiator cap before starting?)NO
>
> If you remove the sparkplugs after the failure, does the engine spin
> up at about the right RPM or is it still bogged down, indicating
> perhaps a main bearing problem?

more detail on this one please, I guess I don't get what you mean
>
> Oil look ok? Not 'creamy' as if water has gotten in?
> looks fine to me


> Blue Sky Department:
> Sick F.I. computer injecting liquid gas into a couple cylinders?
> Sick injector(s) sticking open when heated?
> Head gasket leak putting incompressable water in a couple cylinders?
>
> --Winston
>


  #5  
Old March 8th 05, 08:19 PM
zzzzz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I had a 454 like that...it ran too hot .. anything past 185 it took 20
minutes to restart...
I took the thermostat out and greatly decreased the problem..


"Swabbie" > wrote in message
news:i99Xd.81678$wc.53110@trnddc07...
> this is a problem that has plagued this truck for about 2 years now. I

have
> posted this problem on about every ford tech site on the net. Still no go.
> heres the situation,
> the truck will crank right up, and drive perfectly to wherever I am going.

I
> then turn it off.
> If it has been about 30 miles or so, it will NOT restart until it has sat
> for about 15 minutes(as if it needs to cool down).
> it tries to turn over, but will crank like a low battery. Jumping it does
> nothing. It has to sit for about 15 minutes minimum, Then it will crank
> right up like nothing was wrong.
> Of course this doesn't happen if its a short trip. Only if the truck has
> been driven 30 miles or so.
>
> now heres what I have done/changed:
> the obvious guess would be the starter, perhaps bushings heating up..but,
> I've been through 2 of them..NO DIFFERENCE! one remanufactured, the other

a
> new motorcraft.
>
> next, is the battery..brand new, new cables and leads. ground is good and
> tight to motor.
> I even ran a bigger gauge lead to the starter, no difference.
> I've changed plugs, wires, solenoid under hood, and still NO GO.
> Someone suggested that it had jumped time...checked it with light and its
> perfect.
> distributor you say? NOPE..new one too.
>
> any ideas? it sucks to HAVE to stay somewhere for at least 20 minutes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> d
>



  #6  
Old March 8th 05, 08:51 PM
rich
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

many V8 engines, especially Chevys, are plagued by "heat soak". Because
the starter is so close to the exhaust, it heats up and usually takes
about 20 min. to cool down.
Ford did a wise thing when they remotely located the solenoid for the
starter. Too bad GM didnt take notes on this one. There are aftermarket
heat shields to help with this problem. That is of course, if your
starter is the culprit.


You may also want to check your timing. If it's advanced too far, it
can be a bear to start when hot.

  #7  
Old March 8th 05, 09:10 PM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Does it have a header? How about an exhaust leak at the manifold
collector?

Sometimes those can heat up starters enough you have to let them cool
off or they drag.

Could your timing advance plate be sticking from lack of oil? Some have
a sponge under the rotor that needs an oil soak. Maybe grab the rotor
and see if it rotates free and spring loaded.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Swabbie wrote:
>
> this is a problem that has plagued this truck for about 2 years now. I have
> posted this problem on about every ford tech site on the net. Still no go.
> heres the situation,
> the truck will crank right up, and drive perfectly to wherever I am going. I
> then turn it off.
> If it has been about 30 miles or so, it will NOT restart until it has sat
> for about 15 minutes(as if it needs to cool down).
> it tries to turn over, but will crank like a low battery. Jumping it does
> nothing. It has to sit for about 15 minutes minimum, Then it will crank
> right up like nothing was wrong.
> Of course this doesn't happen if its a short trip. Only if the truck has
> been driven 30 miles or so.
>
> now heres what I have done/changed:
> the obvious guess would be the starter, perhaps bushings heating up..but,
> I've been through 2 of them..NO DIFFERENCE! one remanufactured, the other a
> new motorcraft.
>
> next, is the battery..brand new, new cables and leads. ground is good and
> tight to motor.
> I even ran a bigger gauge lead to the starter, no difference.
> I've changed plugs, wires, solenoid under hood, and still NO GO.
> Someone suggested that it had jumped time...checked it with light and its
> perfect.
> distributor you say? NOPE..new one too.
>
> any ideas? it sucks to HAVE to stay somewhere for at least 20 minutes.
>
> --
> d

  #8  
Old March 8th 05, 10:29 PM
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

zzzzz wrote:

> I had a 454 like that...it ran too hot .. anything past 185 it took 20
> minutes to restart...
> I took the thermostat out and greatly decreased the problem..
>


Did removing the thermostat make it quit being a 454? :-p

  #9  
Old March 8th 05, 11:18 PM
Winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Swabbie wrote:
> "Winston" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Swabbie wrote:
>>
>>> this is a problem that has plagued this truck for about 2 years now.
>>> I have posted this problem on about every ford tech site on the net.
>>> Still no go.
>>> heres the situation,
>>> the truck will crank right up, and drive perfectly to wherever I am
>>> going. I then turn it off.
>>> If it has been about 30 miles or so, it will NOT restart until it has
>>> sat for about 15 minutes(as if it needs to cool down).


Other posters have indicated a chronic heat problem in the starter motor
and suggest a heat shield. This seems most likely.

>>
>> Stick? Automatic? auto
>>
>> How much current goes to the starter under each condition?
>> About the same or much more or less under the fault condition?checked
>> it today, its the same
>>
>> Can you reproduce the problem with an unpressurized cooling system?
>> (Loosen the radiator cap before starting?)NO


This means that the truck always starts at any temperature as long as
the cooling system is unpressurized. That's what you meant to say,
yes? The problem cannot be reproduced with an unpressurized cooling
system.

Cool! I wonder if this means that coolant is leaking into the cylinders
and bogging down the starter. How is your coolant level? Do you
have to keep topping it up?

>> If you remove the sparkplugs after the failure, does the engine spin
>> up at about the right RPM or is it still bogged down, indicating
>> perhaps a main bearing problem?

>
> more detail on this one please, I guess I don't get what you mean


Earlier, you mentioned that the truck always starts at any temperature
as long as the cooling system is unpressurized, right?

Forget my mention of a main bearing problem. It is looking more as if
coolant is getting into one or more cylinders.

You also state that the starter motor draws no more current when the
problem appears.
This is a puzzlement, because one would expect a 'hydraulically siezed'
engine to draw much more current through the series - wound starter.
Removing the plugs and cranking the engine would blow out any water
collected in the cylinders.

>> Oil look ok? Not 'creamy' as if water has gotten in?
>> looks fine to me


Good. That means water isn't getting past the rings or valve stem seals.

>> Blue Sky Department:
>> Sick F.I. computer injecting liquid gas into a couple cylinders?
>> Sick injector(s) sticking open when heated?
>> Head gasket leak putting incompressable water in a couple cylinders?
>>
>> --Winston


But these wildass guesses are probably wrong and you just need to put a
heat shield on your starter.

--Winston

  #10  
Old March 8th 05, 11:24 PM
Swabbie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ive thought of that before..I think I may try the heat shield before the
rest...great ideas guys...

--

"Winston" > wrote in message
...
> Swabbie wrote:
>> "Winston" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Swabbie wrote:
>>>
>>>> this is a problem that has plagued this truck for about 2 years now. I
>>>> have posted this problem on about every ford tech site on the net.
>>>> Still no go.
>>>> heres the situation,
>>>> the truck will crank right up, and drive perfectly to wherever I am
>>>> going. I then turn it off.
>>>> If it has been about 30 miles or so, it will NOT restart until it has
>>>> sat for about 15 minutes(as if it needs to cool down).

>
> Other posters have indicated a chronic heat problem in the starter motor
> and suggest a heat shield. This seems most likely.
>
>>>
>>> Stick? Automatic? auto
>>>
>>> How much current goes to the starter under each condition?
>>> About the same or much more or less under the fault condition?checked it
>>> today, its the same
>>>
>>> Can you reproduce the problem with an unpressurized cooling system?
>>> (Loosen the radiator cap before starting?)NO

>
> This means that the truck always starts at any temperature as long as
> the cooling system is unpressurized. That's what you meant to say,
> yes? The problem cannot be reproduced with an unpressurized cooling
> system.
>
> Cool! I wonder if this means that coolant is leaking into the cylinders
> and bogging down the starter. How is your coolant level? Do you
> have to keep topping it up?
>
>>> If you remove the sparkplugs after the failure, does the engine spin
>>> up at about the right RPM or is it still bogged down, indicating
>>> perhaps a main bearing problem?

>>
>> more detail on this one please, I guess I don't get what you mean

>
> Earlier, you mentioned that the truck always starts at any temperature
> as long as the cooling system is unpressurized, right?
>
> Forget my mention of a main bearing problem. It is looking more as if
> coolant is getting into one or more cylinders.
>
> You also state that the starter motor draws no more current when the
> problem appears.
> This is a puzzlement, because one would expect a 'hydraulically siezed'
> engine to draw much more current through the series - wound starter.
> Removing the plugs and cranking the engine would blow out any water
> collected in the cylinders.
>
>>> Oil look ok? Not 'creamy' as if water has gotten in?
>>> looks fine to me

>
> Good. That means water isn't getting past the rings or valve stem seals.
>
>>> Blue Sky Department:
>>> Sick F.I. computer injecting liquid gas into a couple cylinders?
>>> Sick injector(s) sticking open when heated?
>>> Head gasket leak putting incompressable water in a couple cylinders?
>>>
>>> --Winston

>
> But these wildass guesses are probably wrong and you just need to put a
> heat shield on your starter.
>
> --Winston
>


 




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