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Haynes manual instructions



 
 
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  #51  
Old November 13th 04, 05:00 AM
Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
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"ray" > wrote in message
...
> Geoff Miller wrote:
> > E.R. > writes:
> >
> >
> >>I was actually dumb enough to buy a Haynes manual once, [...]

> >
> >
> >
> > I've been buying Haynes manuals for twenty years, and have had
> > them for Toyotas (pickup, Supra), a Honda Accord, and a Mercedes.
> > I can't recall every having a significant complaint about any of
> > them. Maybe they've gone downhill in recent years.
> >
> > Geoff
> >

>
> I think it's just some manuals cover too much. The Full Size GM one I
> had covered Buick, Pontiac, Olds from 1970-1990. Sure, the basic
> suspension design didn't change a lot in 20 years, but the fuel system
> sure did. (manual choke -> fuel injection.) You just can't cover both
> Chevy V8's (small and big block), the Pontiac V8 and an Olds V8 in any
> detail in 50 pages.
>

The main problem I've found with the Haynes books is that they often show
detailed close-up photos of a certain part, but don't show enough of the
surrounding portion of the engine, brakes, etc. to actually locate that
part!

(One such example, a very close photo of the PCV valve, but the photo
doesn't show enough of the surrounding part of the engine to actually show
*where* that PCV valve is actually located.)

--
Signed,
Daniel W. Rouse Jr.


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  #52  
Old November 14th 04, 06:15 AM
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I have to agree. Haynes and Chilton are not detailed enough. Usually
the section I need doesn't go into detail enough. Nothing replaces the
factory service manuals. Whether it is GM, Chrysler, and Honda etc. If
I own the vehicle I buy the manual. The last one I bought for my
Cherokee Sport came from www.tenaflyjeepmoparparts.com it cost about
$100.00. Dwane Glenn the parts manager gives you 30% off list on all
parts. I say you will never be sorry from buying quality, buy it right
the first time and never buy it again. Dave On Fri, 12 Nov 2004
23:27:19 GMT, Barry S. > wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:21:35 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Barry S. wrote:
>>
>>> >> Unless you can find that factory service manual on eBay, it will cost quite
>>> >> a bit more than a "couple of bucks".

>>
>>> >Only if you're stupid enough to think Ebay is the only place to find used
>>> >manuals.

>>
>>> Any places should know about?

>>
>>Hemmings Motor News is cram packed with auto service literature vendors.

>
>I'll have to grab a copy..
>
>I will take a Haynes manual over Chrysler's DEALER Tech Connect.. For
>some reason, the full factory manuals and PDF versions on CD-ROM
>aren't available online.. So the manual may give you a picture and say
>remove the 5 screws in the diagram. The online service will give you
>one line of text.. "Remove the 5 screws from the panel" And no
>picture.. Sometimes there is a picture buried in one of the other
>parts sections, but its sometimes not hyperlinked.
>
>__________________
>Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.
>N37.3 W122.0


  #53  
Old November 14th 04, 06:15 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have to agree. Haynes and Chilton are not detailed enough. Usually
the section I need doesn't go into detail enough. Nothing replaces the
factory service manuals. Whether it is GM, Chrysler, and Honda etc. If
I own the vehicle I buy the manual. The last one I bought for my
Cherokee Sport came from www.tenaflyjeepmoparparts.com it cost about
$100.00. Dwane Glenn the parts manager gives you 30% off list on all
parts. I say you will never be sorry from buying quality, buy it right
the first time and never buy it again. Dave On Fri, 12 Nov 2004
23:27:19 GMT, Barry S. > wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:21:35 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Barry S. wrote:
>>
>>> >> Unless you can find that factory service manual on eBay, it will cost quite
>>> >> a bit more than a "couple of bucks".

>>
>>> >Only if you're stupid enough to think Ebay is the only place to find used
>>> >manuals.

>>
>>> Any places should know about?

>>
>>Hemmings Motor News is cram packed with auto service literature vendors.

>
>I'll have to grab a copy..
>
>I will take a Haynes manual over Chrysler's DEALER Tech Connect.. For
>some reason, the full factory manuals and PDF versions on CD-ROM
>aren't available online.. So the manual may give you a picture and say
>remove the 5 screws in the diagram. The online service will give you
>one line of text.. "Remove the 5 screws from the panel" And no
>picture.. Sometimes there is a picture buried in one of the other
>parts sections, but its sometimes not hyperlinked.
>
>__________________
>Note: To reply, replace the word 'spam' embedded in return address with 'mail'.
>N37.3 W122.0


  #54  
Old November 16th 04, 05:39 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:22:04 -0500, Bill Putney > wrote:

||
||Except, after I had learned my lesson years earlier on aftermarket
||manuals, a few months after I bought my daughter a used car, the very
||first opportunity that came up for diagnosis and repair of an electrical
||problem, in a weak moment, I went down the street and sprung for a whole
||$13 for a Haynes manual. Due to a visibly hidden fuse that was not
||shown in the "TYPICAL" schematics of the Haynes, I ended up replacing a
||perfectly good factory alternator when all that was wrong was that the
||in-line fuse that the manual did not show had mechanically fractured.

With all due respect, that's just not good basic diagnostics. Every parts store
worth giving your business to has an alternator tester. A quick check would have
told you the problem was elsewhere. That's not excusing the omission, but there
is some shared responsibility here.
Haynes is advertised as a "Tuneup and repair *guide*". They do not pretend
to be a substitute for the FSM, but for the money they are a good alternative,
and the only company currently providing one. And yes, some Haynes books are
better than others.
Texas Parts Guy
  #55  
Old November 16th 04, 05:39 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:22:04 -0500, Bill Putney > wrote:

||
||Except, after I had learned my lesson years earlier on aftermarket
||manuals, a few months after I bought my daughter a used car, the very
||first opportunity that came up for diagnosis and repair of an electrical
||problem, in a weak moment, I went down the street and sprung for a whole
||$13 for a Haynes manual. Due to a visibly hidden fuse that was not
||shown in the "TYPICAL" schematics of the Haynes, I ended up replacing a
||perfectly good factory alternator when all that was wrong was that the
||in-line fuse that the manual did not show had mechanically fractured.

With all due respect, that's just not good basic diagnostics. Every parts store
worth giving your business to has an alternator tester. A quick check would have
told you the problem was elsewhere. That's not excusing the omission, but there
is some shared responsibility here.
Haynes is advertised as a "Tuneup and repair *guide*". They do not pretend
to be a substitute for the FSM, but for the money they are a good alternative,
and the only company currently providing one. And yes, some Haynes books are
better than others.
Texas Parts Guy
  #56  
Old November 17th 04, 02:00 AM
Bill Putney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:22:04 -0500, Bill Putney > wrote:
>
> ||
> ||Except, after I had learned my lesson years earlier on aftermarket
> ||manuals, a few months after I bought my daughter a used car, the very
> ||first opportunity that came up for diagnosis and repair of an electrical
> ||problem, in a weak moment, I went down the street and sprung for a whole
> ||$13 for a Haynes manual. Due to a visibly hidden fuse that was not
> ||shown in the "TYPICAL" schematics of the Haynes, I ended up replacing a
> ||perfectly good factory alternator when all that was wrong was that the
> ||in-line fuse that the manual did not show had mechanically fractured.
>
> With all due respect, that's just not good basic diagnostics. Every parts store
> worth giving your business to has an alternator tester...


see below

> ...A quick check would have
> told you the problem was elsewhere. That's not excusing the omission, but there
> is some shared responsibility here...


see below

> ...Haynes is advertised as a "Tuneup and repair *guide*".


My primary bone of contention is that "typical" schematics are used. I
make the analogy to using a map that shows hiways between New York and
Philadelphia to drive from Denver to LA. To sell someone such a map for
that purpose is fraudulent. There's no such thing as a schematic to be
used as a "guide". It either represents the circuits of interest and is
a useful troubleshooting too, or it is as worthless as that map. If
it's only a guide, then leave the schematics out, because putting them
in at all implies something that isn't delivered.

They do not pretend
> to be a substitute for the FSM, but for the money they are a good alternative,
> and the only company currently providing one. And yes, some Haynes books are
> better than others.
> Texas Parts Guy


You are correct about having it tested - in the attempt to keep my posts
short (which is a problem for me anyway), I just failed to mention that
- the fact is that I took it to two stores, and the standard adapters
they had with their alterantor test setups would not adapt to the
particular alternator (for the record it was on a '96 Mercury Mystique -
for some reason, the connectors are not typical of other Ford
alternators). The one store was honest about it - did their best to use
alligator clips to hook it up the best they knew how - they didn't seem
very confident in how to hook it up, and it failed the test - I took
that with a grain of salt. Went to a competitor who had the exact same
generic tester setup with the same standard adapters (that didn't fit
the alternator) - their guy faked it and simply told me it failed the
test. The problem turned out to be a mechanically fractured (not
thermally/electircally blown) MegaFuse™. An alternator is not going to
blow the same time a fuse happens to mechanically fracture.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')


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  #57  
Old November 17th 04, 02:00 AM
Bill Putney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:22:04 -0500, Bill Putney > wrote:
>
> ||
> ||Except, after I had learned my lesson years earlier on aftermarket
> ||manuals, a few months after I bought my daughter a used car, the very
> ||first opportunity that came up for diagnosis and repair of an electrical
> ||problem, in a weak moment, I went down the street and sprung for a whole
> ||$13 for a Haynes manual. Due to a visibly hidden fuse that was not
> ||shown in the "TYPICAL" schematics of the Haynes, I ended up replacing a
> ||perfectly good factory alternator when all that was wrong was that the
> ||in-line fuse that the manual did not show had mechanically fractured.
>
> With all due respect, that's just not good basic diagnostics. Every parts store
> worth giving your business to has an alternator tester...


see below

> ...A quick check would have
> told you the problem was elsewhere. That's not excusing the omission, but there
> is some shared responsibility here...


see below

> ...Haynes is advertised as a "Tuneup and repair *guide*".


My primary bone of contention is that "typical" schematics are used. I
make the analogy to using a map that shows hiways between New York and
Philadelphia to drive from Denver to LA. To sell someone such a map for
that purpose is fraudulent. There's no such thing as a schematic to be
used as a "guide". It either represents the circuits of interest and is
a useful troubleshooting too, or it is as worthless as that map. If
it's only a guide, then leave the schematics out, because putting them
in at all implies something that isn't delivered.

They do not pretend
> to be a substitute for the FSM, but for the money they are a good alternative,
> and the only company currently providing one. And yes, some Haynes books are
> better than others.
> Texas Parts Guy


You are correct about having it tested - in the attempt to keep my posts
short (which is a problem for me anyway), I just failed to mention that
- the fact is that I took it to two stores, and the standard adapters
they had with their alterantor test setups would not adapt to the
particular alternator (for the record it was on a '96 Mercury Mystique -
for some reason, the connectors are not typical of other Ford
alternators). The one store was honest about it - did their best to use
alligator clips to hook it up the best they knew how - they didn't seem
very confident in how to hook it up, and it failed the test - I took
that with a grain of salt. Went to a competitor who had the exact same
generic tester setup with the same standard adapters (that didn't fit
the alternator) - their guy faked it and simply told me it failed the
test. The problem turned out to be a mechanically fractured (not
thermally/electircally blown) MegaFuse™. An alternator is not going to
blow the same time a fuse happens to mechanically fracture.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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  #58  
Old November 17th 04, 02:57 AM
Bill Putney
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Default

Bill Putney wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:22:04 -0500, Bill Putney > wrote:
>>
>> ||
>> ||Except, after I had learned my lesson years earlier on aftermarket
>> ||manuals, a few months after I bought my daughter a used car, the
>> very ||first opportunity that came up for diagnosis and repair of an
>> electrical ||problem, in a weak moment, I went down the street and
>> sprung for a whole ||$13 for a Haynes manual. Due to a visibly hidden
>> fuse that was not ||shown in the "TYPICAL" schematics of the Haynes, I
>> ended up replacing a ||perfectly good factory alternator when all that
>> was wrong was that the ||in-line fuse that the manual did not show had
>> mechanically fractured.
>> With all due respect, that's just not good basic diagnostics. Every
>> parts store
>> worth giving your business to has an alternator tester...

>
>
> see below
>
>> ...A quick check would have
>> told you the problem was elsewhere. That's not excusing the omission,
>> but there
>> is some shared responsibility here...

>
>
> see below
>
>> ...Haynes is advertised as a "Tuneup and repair *guide*".

>
>
> My primary bone of contention is that "typical" schematics are used. I
> make the analogy to using a map that shows hiways between New York and
> Philadelphia to drive from Denver to LA. To sell someone such a map for
> that purpose is fraudulent. There's no such thing as a schematic to be
> used as a "guide". It either represents the circuits of interest and is
> a useful troubleshooting too, or it is as worthless as that map. If
> it's only a guide, then leave the schematics out, because putting them
> in at all implies something that isn't delivered.
>
> They do not pretend
>
>> to be a substitute for the FSM, but for the money they are a good
>> alternative,
>> and the only company currently providing one. And yes, some Haynes
>> books are
>> better than others.
>> Texas Parts Guy

>
>
> You are correct about having it tested - in the attempt to keep my posts
> short (which is a problem for me anyway), I just failed to mention that
> - the fact is that I took it to two stores, and the standard adapters
> they had with their alterantor test setups would not adapt to the
> particular alternator (for the record it was on a '96 Mercury Mystique -
> for some reason, the connectors are not typical of other Ford
> alternators). The one store was honest about it - did their best to use
> alligator clips to hook it up the best they knew how - they didn't seem
> very confident in how to hook it up, and it failed the test - I took
> that with a grain of salt. Went to a competitor who had the exact same
> generic tester setup with the same standard adapters (that didn't fit
> the alternator) - their guy faked it and simply told me it failed the
> test. The problem turned out to be a mechanically fractured (not
> thermally/electircally blown) MegaFuse™. An alternator is not going to
> blow the same time a fuse happens to mechanically fracture.


If I wasn't clear - that fuse was not part of or built into the
alternator - it was in the hot wire going from the battery tot he
alternator, and was hidden underneath the intake plenum.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
  #59  
Old November 17th 04, 02:57 AM
Bill Putney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bill Putney wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:22:04 -0500, Bill Putney > wrote:
>>
>> ||
>> ||Except, after I had learned my lesson years earlier on aftermarket
>> ||manuals, a few months after I bought my daughter a used car, the
>> very ||first opportunity that came up for diagnosis and repair of an
>> electrical ||problem, in a weak moment, I went down the street and
>> sprung for a whole ||$13 for a Haynes manual. Due to a visibly hidden
>> fuse that was not ||shown in the "TYPICAL" schematics of the Haynes, I
>> ended up replacing a ||perfectly good factory alternator when all that
>> was wrong was that the ||in-line fuse that the manual did not show had
>> mechanically fractured.
>> With all due respect, that's just not good basic diagnostics. Every
>> parts store
>> worth giving your business to has an alternator tester...

>
>
> see below
>
>> ...A quick check would have
>> told you the problem was elsewhere. That's not excusing the omission,
>> but there
>> is some shared responsibility here...

>
>
> see below
>
>> ...Haynes is advertised as a "Tuneup and repair *guide*".

>
>
> My primary bone of contention is that "typical" schematics are used. I
> make the analogy to using a map that shows hiways between New York and
> Philadelphia to drive from Denver to LA. To sell someone such a map for
> that purpose is fraudulent. There's no such thing as a schematic to be
> used as a "guide". It either represents the circuits of interest and is
> a useful troubleshooting too, or it is as worthless as that map. If
> it's only a guide, then leave the schematics out, because putting them
> in at all implies something that isn't delivered.
>
> They do not pretend
>
>> to be a substitute for the FSM, but for the money they are a good
>> alternative,
>> and the only company currently providing one. And yes, some Haynes
>> books are
>> better than others.
>> Texas Parts Guy

>
>
> You are correct about having it tested - in the attempt to keep my posts
> short (which is a problem for me anyway), I just failed to mention that
> - the fact is that I took it to two stores, and the standard adapters
> they had with their alterantor test setups would not adapt to the
> particular alternator (for the record it was on a '96 Mercury Mystique -
> for some reason, the connectors are not typical of other Ford
> alternators). The one store was honest about it - did their best to use
> alligator clips to hook it up the best they knew how - they didn't seem
> very confident in how to hook it up, and it failed the test - I took
> that with a grain of salt. Went to a competitor who had the exact same
> generic tester setup with the same standard adapters (that didn't fit
> the alternator) - their guy faked it and simply told me it failed the
> test. The problem turned out to be a mechanically fractured (not
> thermally/electircally blown) MegaFuse™. An alternator is not going to
> blow the same time a fuse happens to mechanically fracture.


If I wasn't clear - that fuse was not part of or built into the
alternator - it was in the hot wire going from the battery tot he
alternator, and was hidden underneath the intake plenum.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
  #60  
Old November 17th 04, 04:45 AM
sams
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Posts: n/a
Default

I agree 100% with Texas Parts Guy. Last year I did a Timingbelt,
Waterpump, AFT replacement project around this time using Haynes. I
also had a Chiltons. I found the illustrations are more clear in
Haynes. Chiltons has more descriptions. Also I was posting and getting
help from this news group. I will be buying a Hayens if I change my
car. It may not be the most detailed manual like the Shop Manuals, but
it helped me to save over $600 for a small investment of $12
(including shipping in eBay).

> ||I'd rather not have a manual than a haynes or a chiltons...
>
> You may get your wish. Many of the manufacturers no longer offer a manual to the
> owner. If they do, it may be a CD for $100 or more
>
> Haynes fills a need for reasonably-priced repair information specific to your
> car. It is correct far more than it is wrong. I have a number of Haynes
> manuals and have yet to find a procedure incorrectly documented. It is true
> that sometimes there is not enough info to answer the questions that come up,
> but for the money I'll accept that.
>
> I obtain a Haynes manual for every vehicle I acquire. If I can also get a FSM, I
> will, but that's a backup. The Haynes gets the grease smudges.
> Texas Parts Guy

 




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