Stalls after fixed time - second go 'round

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>Sounds like something in the ignition circuit is getting hot and
>>creating an open circuit.
>>Possibly the coil.
>
>
> Maybe that would create the same behavior, but I thought it "feels" more
> like a fuel problem because it sputters with gradually increasing severity
> for almost a minute before it stalls completely.
>
>

A coil breaking down when hot can exhibit the same symptoms, but in my
experience (with much older cars) it usually is fuel; either the fuel
pump or rust flakes in the gas tank (and you shouldn't have either)

actually pretty much ANY electronic component could cause this, but I'd
suspect the analog ones (i.e. coil) first.

nate

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Tom Del Rosso wrote:

> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>Sounds like something in the ignition circuit is getting hot and
>>creating an open circuit.
>>Possibly the coil.
>
>
> Maybe that would create the same behavior, but I thought it "feels" more
> like a fuel problem because it sputters with gradually increasing severity
> for almost a minute before it stalls completely.

That could just as easily be the ignition getting weaker and weaker and
more intermittent.

Is there any spark at the coil or plugs when you test it immediately
after one of these stalling incidents?

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
>
> That could just as easily be the ignition getting weaker and weaker and
> more intermittent.
>
> Is there any spark at the coil or plugs when you test it immediately
> after one of these stalling incidents?

I was ill-equipped to do much testing at those times. I'll try to obtain a
timing light. Is there anything else I can try when nobody else is around?


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"Tom Del Rosso" > wrote in message
news
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> That could just as easily be the ignition getting weaker and weaker and
>> more intermittent.
>>
>> Is there any spark at the coil or plugs when you test it immediately
>> after one of these stalling incidents?
>
> I was ill-equipped to do much testing at those times. I'll try to obtain
> a
> timing light. Is there anything else I can try when nobody else is
> around?
>
>

I've had good results with just pulling the spark plug boot, taking a
screwdriver and inserting it in the boot and then placing it (the metal
shaft of the screwdriver) close to something that is grounded. If a spark
jumps, you'll know that the ignition system is working. Then you need to
determine if the spark is good or not. You won't have to buy a timing
light.

-Bruce

Bruce Chang wrote:
> "Tom Del Rosso" > wrote in message
> news
> > "Steve" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> That could just as easily be the ignition getting weaker and weaker and
> >> more intermittent.
> >>
> >> Is there any spark at the coil or plugs when you test it immediately
> >> after one of these stalling incidents?
> >
> > I was ill-equipped to do much testing at those times. I'll try to obtain
> > a
> > timing light. Is there anything else I can try when nobody else is
> > around?
> >
> >
>
> I've had good results with just pulling the spark plug boot, taking a
> screwdriver and inserting it in the boot and then placing it (the metal
> shaft of the screwdriver) close to something that is grounded. If a spark
> jumps, you'll know that the ignition system is working. Then you need to
> determine if the spark is good or not. You won't have to buy a timing
> light.
>
> -Bruce

just push the boot back and hold the wire so the exposed terminal is
near something grounded. WARNING: if you do this with a spark plug
wire that's 30 years old you might get a little jolt up your arm. Or
so I've heard.

nate

> I've had good results with just pulling the spark plug boot, taking a
> screwdriver and inserting it in the boot and then placing it (the metal
> shaft of the screwdriver) close to something that is grounded. If a spark
> jumps, you'll know that the ignition system is working. Then you need to
> determine if the spark is good or not. You won't have to buy a timing
> light.

The wire from the top of the coil can be tied of or held about 1/4" from a
ground on the body as the starter is turned over. There should be a blue
spark. A yellow spark is weak but my car runs okay with a yellow spark. No
spark is not good. The engine will not work without a spark. You can also
buy a small gizmo which attached to the end of an ignition wire and will
show the spark if there is sufficient current in the wire.

It's possible the transistorized points in the distributor are overheating
and quitting. The components might be getting weak. If it's not working
there will be no current to the plugs and hence no spark to fire the
cylinders.

Otherwise I think the engine should fire if it's getting fuel.
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Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>That could just as easily be the ignition getting weaker and weaker and
>>more intermittent.
>>
>>Is there any spark at the coil or plugs when you test it immediately
>>after one of these stalling incidents?
>
>
> I was ill-equipped to do much testing at those times. I'll try to obtain a
> timing light. Is there anything else I can try when nobody else is around?

Fuel pressure gauge and a can of starter fluid. Beware! A poorly fitted
fuel pressure gauge can cause your present car problem to be a non - issue.
Be Careful With Gasoline!

Car konks but has spark. Fuel pressure gauge reads good but car starts
using starting fluid. Ah HAH! Maybe a blockage at Mr. Carburator or
Mr. Throttle Body.

Car konks but has spark. Fuel pressure is non-existant. Ah HAH!
Suspect fuel pump or blockage at filter or in line.

Car konks, no spark but fuel pressure is within manufacturer's spec.
Ah HAH! Ignition problem as pondered before.

Ideally, you could have the car completely instrumented.

By the way, when you tested the On Board Diagnostics, what codes were
revealed?

--Winston

"Winston" > wrote in message
...
>
> Fuel pressure gauge and a can of starter fluid. Beware! A poorly fitted
> fuel pressure gauge can cause your present car problem to be a non -
issue.
> Be Careful With Gasoline!

Thanks but that's too incautious for me.


> By the way, when you tested the On Board Diagnostics, what codes were
> revealed?

From the first time it happened the code was 55, which is no codes. After
the hall effect sensor was replaced I got 12 55 for a few days (battery
recently disconnected), then just 55 a few days later.


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Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> "Winston" > wrote in message
(...)
>>By the way, when you tested the On Board Diagnostics, what codes were
>>revealed?
>
>
> From the first time it happened the code was 55, which is no codes. After
> the hall effect sensor was replaced I got 12 55 for a few days (battery
> recently disconnected), then just 55 a few days later.

No joy there, then.

This sounds like an ignitor bug, but we need more info.
Looking forward to the results of your 'timing light' test, Tom.

--Winston

"Winston" > wrote in message
...
> Tom Del Rosso wrote:
> > "Winston" > wrote in message
> (...)
> >>By the way, when you tested the On Board Diagnostics, what codes were
> >>revealed?
> >
> >
> > From the first time it happened the code was 55, which is no codes.
After
> > the hall effect sensor was replaced I got 12 55 for a few days (battery
> > recently disconnected), then just 55 a few days later.
>
> No joy there, then.
>
> This sounds like an ignitor bug, but we need more info.
> Looking forward to the results of your 'timing light' test, Tom.
>
> --Winston

The very next day, before I could get a timing light, it wouldn't start at
all. Not the usual stall after 20 minutes on the highway.

It was reluctant to start one day last week -- also a hot day -- but I got
it started. Apparently the problem takes time on cool days, but on hot days
it never wants to start.

It would turn over for a second, then stall. Same on the second attempt.
Then on the third attempt, nothing. Clearly this looked like fuel and not
ignition. Starter fluid let it run for a few good seconds, with another 5
seconds of sputtering (during which it was really quite valiant in its
effort to keep going). Obviously it had a good spark.

Tuesday night I had it towed back to the shop that replaced the fuel pump
just days before this problem started. I don't think they got to it
Wednesday, but I know they did yesterday and I expect to get a verdict this
morning.

Much thanks. I'll post later when I learn more.


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