undeserved running red light ticket. Need advice

"Brent P" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, jaybird wrote:
>
>>> Kinda like the guys who pretend not to understand and give obtuse
>>> answers just for the hell of it.
>>
>> I'm just shocked and awed by the lack of common sense and legal knowledge
>> sometimes.
>
> Someone steals a car and accidently clips a cop trying to get away is a
> much different charge than that same person clipping a civilian in the
> same get away. Don't pretend it isn't. If you were at least consistant
> with your traffic violation arguement you'd admit it because 'cops are
> special'.

I'll answer this with consistency too, with no pretending. We'll go with
just the information that you've provided and work from there. Now this
could be filed under Assault (PC 22.01) if the person intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly caused bodily injury to a person. If the injured
is a public servant discharging an official duty then the offense is
enhanced from a Class A Misdemeanor to a 3rd degree felony. If the person
caused serious bodily injury, or used the vehicle as a deadly weapon then
you could file Aggravated Assault (PC 22.02) which would be a 2nd degree
felony unless it was against a public servant discharging an official duty
in which case it would be enhanced to a 1st degree felony..... no
pretending.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

Scott en Aztl=E1n wrote:
> On 28 Feb 2005 22:09:49 -0800, "RobW" > wrote:
>
> >So how'd that plea work out for him, Scott? Did he get
> >off? i'd be surprised.
>
> The mother****er got a reduction in his fine. That REALLY ****ed me
> off, because, thanks to his negligence, a car I had owned for less
> than one week was completely totalled. He deserved the full fine. If
> I'd have known that asshole prosecutor was going to agree to a
> reduction in the punishment, I wouldn't have wasted my time coming to
> court (and no, I was not subpoenaed, I was there voluntarily).

Umm, Scott, has it occurred to you that *it doesn't really matter* what
the traffic fine/forfeiture turns out to be because your claim is a
*civil* one? In fact, it just frees up that much *more money* for him
to pay for your damages! As much as it might please us to see those
who offend us simply put to death without further ado, what we *really
want* is to get *paid* for our damages, isn't it?
--
Ol' C.R.

"Motorhead Lawyer" > wrote in message
oups.com...

jaybird wrote:
> "Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 25 Feb 2005 11:31:56 -0800, "Don" >
wrote:
> >
> > You should have filed an assault report against the bum, and
insisted
> > that the cop accompany you back to the McDonald's to interview your
> > two eye-witnesses.
>
> Assault would not be the correct offense title since no one was
assaulted.
> Inanimate objects cannot be victims of assault.

>Assault is acting in a manner that causes another fear or apprehension
>for his physical safety.

That's not entirely correct. Assault, as defined by the Texas penal code,
is: intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causing bodily injury,
threatening imminent bodily injury, or causing physical contact that the
other finds offensive or provocative. From what the OP said, there weren't
even any threats made. He said the guy was just yelling.

> This guy was clearly assaulted. His car was
>vandalized. If you don't think you could get a couple of citations out
>of that situation, let me do it to *you* in *your car* sometime. =;^)

Around here you could cite one for running the red light since the guy
wasn't even around anymore when he got to the light, and cite the other for
Criminal Mischief (if the amount of pecuniary loss is less than $50) but
that's about all you're going to get out of that incident. The guy didn't
even notice the milkshake smear until he got home (and assumed it was from
the bum) and all the bum did was stand in front of his car yelling. Nobody
was actually assaulted. You miiiggght be able to stretch an Assault by
Threat charge out of it, but that's not going to hold up because there was
no threat of imminent bodily injury. The bum was yelling and the guy was in
his car.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

In article >, jaybird wrote:
>
> "Brent P" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >, jaybird wrote:
>>
>>>> Kinda like the guys who pretend not to understand and give obtuse
>>>> answers just for the hell of it.
>>>
>>> I'm just shocked and awed by the lack of common sense and legal knowledge
>>> sometimes.
>>
>> Someone steals a car and accidently clips a cop trying to get away is a
>> much different charge than that same person clipping a civilian in the
>> same get away. Don't pretend it isn't. If you were at least consistant
>> with your traffic violation arguement you'd admit it because 'cops are
>> special'.
>
> I'll answer this with consistency too, with no pretending. We'll go with
> just the information that you've provided and work from there. Now this
> could be filed under Assault (PC 22.01) if the person intentionally,
> knowingly, or recklessly caused bodily injury to a person. If the injured
> is a public servant discharging an official duty then the offense is
> enhanced from a Class A Misdemeanor to a 3rd degree felony. If the person
> caused serious bodily injury, or used the vehicle as a deadly weapon then
> you could file Aggravated Assault (PC 22.02) which would be a 2nd degree
> felony unless it was against a public servant discharging an official duty
> in which case it would be enhanced to a 1st degree felony..... no
> pretending.

Thanks for proving me correct jaybird. First you say I'm 'nuts' then you
prove me correct.

"Brent P" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, jaybird wrote:
>>
>> "Brent P" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article >, jaybird wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Kinda like the guys who pretend not to understand and give obtuse
>>>>> answers just for the hell of it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just shocked and awed by the lack of common sense and legal
>>>> knowledge
>>>> sometimes.
>>>
>>> Someone steals a car and accidently clips a cop trying to get away is a
>>> much different charge than that same person clipping a civilian in the
>>> same get away. Don't pretend it isn't. If you were at least consistant
>>> with your traffic violation arguement you'd admit it because 'cops are
>>> special'.
>>
>> I'll answer this with consistency too, with no pretending. We'll go with
>> just the information that you've provided and work from there. Now this
>> could be filed under Assault (PC 22.01) if the person intentionally,
>> knowingly, or recklessly caused bodily injury to a person. If the
>> injured
>> is a public servant discharging an official duty then the offense is
>> enhanced from a Class A Misdemeanor to a 3rd degree felony. If the
>> person
>> caused serious bodily injury, or used the vehicle as a deadly weapon then
>> you could file Aggravated Assault (PC 22.02) which would be a 2nd degree
>> felony unless it was against a public servant discharging an official
>> duty
>> in which case it would be enhanced to a 1st degree felony..... no
>> pretending.
>
> Thanks for proving me correct jaybird. First you say I'm 'nuts' then you
> prove me correct.

....whatever makes you sleep better at night.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

The red light is very close the where the bum was. It was about 50
yards from where I turned out and the bum could have been down there
while I waited at the light.

About 2 years ago I had another incident. Someone threw a brick at my
car as I was driving by.
I drove around the corner, called the police, and had them met me at
the scene. The cop told me that this was fairly common and that the
usual plan was to have a few people hiding out of sight and if I stop
to confront the brick thrower they would steal my car.

We looked for the guy for about 10 minutes and the cop left. I have a
license to carry a gun and had it with me. I got a lecture from the
cop about it and was told if I confronted the thrower I could have been
arrested. I don't now if its true.

The brick did about $900 damage to a car I had bought about a month
early.

So, what do I do in this situation? Do I confront the bum, drive away,
or just sit there while they screw up my car?

In this case I did not know he did anything to my car but I did want ot
get out of there before he did.

"Don" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> The red light is very close the where the bum was. It was about 50
> yards from where I turned out and the bum could have been down there
> while I waited at the light.
>
> About 2 years ago I had another incident. Someone threw a brick at my
> car as I was driving by.
> I drove around the corner, called the police, and had them met me at
> the scene. The cop told me that this was fairly common and that the
> usual plan was to have a few people hiding out of sight and if I stop
> to confront the brick thrower they would steal my car.
>
> We looked for the guy for about 10 minutes and the cop left. I have a
> license to carry a gun and had it with me. I got a lecture from the
> cop about it and was told if I confronted the thrower I could have been
> arrested. I don't now if its true.
>
> The brick did about $900 damage to a car I had bought about a month
> early.
>
> So, what do I do in this situation? Do I confront the bum, drive away,
> or just sit there while they screw up my car?
>
> In this case I did not know he did anything to my car but I did want ot
> get out of there before he did.

Well, there's no doubt that you ran the red light, but just because you got
a ticket doesn't mean that the judge will hammer you for it. I would
explain this whole thing to him and let him decide.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

I have my answer. Excellent advice, all.
Thank you.

Scott en Aztl=E1n wrote:
> >>
> >> The mother****er got a reduction in his fine.

So he didn't get off.

>>> That REALLY ****ed me
> >> off, because, thanks to his negligence, a car I had owned for less
> >> than one week was completely totalled. He deserved the full fine.

The amount of the fine should be based on how long you had the car?

>>> If
> >> I'd have known that asshole prosecutor was going to agree to a
> >> reduction in the punishment, I wouldn't have wasted my time coming
to
> >> court (and no, I was not subpoenaed, I was there voluntarily).

We all applaud your spirit of voluntarism. You're clearly motivated by
self-sacrifice.

> >
> >Umm, Scott, has it occurred to you that *it doesn't really matter*
what
> >the traffic fine/forfeiture turns out to be because your claim is a
> >*civil* one?
>
> It absolutely does matter. His negligence caused me harm, and I was
> robbed of the satisfaction of seeing him punished to the full extent
> of the law.

Where do you get the idea that the law owes you that? The car was
insured, right? The judge gets to decide his punishment, not the
victim. Otherwise all punishments, even of the same crime (or CIVIL
infraction) would vary too widely, as some folks are more vengeful,
some are more forgiving. High anger levels don't yeild justice. What
you want is vengeance. Getting it's your problem, not the judge's.
The law (in theory at least) is about justice. It is not about
vengeance (in theory at least), it works to restrict folks from seeking
vengeance.

This seems fair to me; since it wasn't my car, I'm impartial. And I
haven't heard his side, just yours. I guess the guy could have pled
straight guilty and asked to be given the full fine plus license
revoked, as I'm sure you would have, if you were ever found at fault in
an accident, which of course could NEVER happen to you because you're
the perfect driver. Instead he chose to tell his side of the story and
asked for a reduced fine, as is apparently his right under Texas law.
The judge chose to give it to him.

>
> The asshole did not pay for my damages - Allstate did.

So the crime he perpetrated against you was that you were
inconvenienced for the time it took to get your new car replaced?

>
> This guy is a menace to society.

If you could have proved that, like say he deliberately hit you, or was
drunk, or had a LOT of accidents in a SHORT time, I'd agree, he's a
menace, yank his license. THAT would be a criminal matter. This was
an accident. **** happens. Even the best drivers make mistakes, don't
believe me, watch more racing. Look on the bright side. I'll bet this
guy drives a bit more carefully, now. What about his car, was it
totalled too? Was it replaced by Allstate, too? If he ended up
losing, or paying to repair, his own car, isn't that punishment?

> I would have gladly eaten the
> complete cost of my car in exchange for having his driver's license
> revoked.

Hey, tell it to the folks at DMV. I'd think for the price of a new
car, some of them can be bribed. What kind of car? That way you'll
have your vengeance, the law won't be involved AT ALL, and a DMV clerk
gets a new car...

Hell, for the price of a new motorcycle, I'll go TP his house for ya.

That's what I plan to do. I don't even mind the fine, i'm more
concerned about my insurance going up.

I would like to say I'm guilty, explain my case, and ask for the case
to be dismissed. But it may be better to plead not guilty and then
explain the situation.

The last time I was in traffic court (10+ years ago) the police
officers were not there. If you plead Not Guilty another apperance is
scheduled and the officer will be there. I'm not sure if it still
works this way.