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Water pump woes



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 21st 05, 01:13 AM
egalas
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Default Water pump woes

My 1989 GXL engine, replaced with factory rebuild at 108,000 went belly
up(june 20, 2005) on the freeway due to water pump failure ansubsequent
overheat before I could safely stop.
The garage elected to retain the original WP at the time of the swap (Feb
2002), which I agrred to with reluctance at thae time.

Do I have any recourse to get the engine replaced or repaired for free?
The WP was ok at that time, but other mechanics say the Wp should ALWAYS
be replaced at swap time.

Now, at age 73, retired on Social Security, I have no car, and after
spending over $9,000 with that garage since 2002 to keep it in good shape,
I'm feeling really cheated.

Waht do you think? Wouldl a small claims judge think I have a case?

Thanks in advance for your help.

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  #2  
Old July 21st 05, 01:30 AM
XS11E
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Default

"egalas" > wrote in:

> My 1989 GXL engine, replaced with factory rebuild at 108,000 went belly
> up(june 20, 2005) on the freeway due to water pump failure ansubsequent
> overheat before I could safely stop.
> The garage elected to retain the original WP at the time of the swap (Feb
> 2002), which I agrred to with reluctance at the time.
>
> Do I have any recourse to get the engine replaced or repaired for free?


First, go to the shop that did the rebuild and discuss it with them, you want
to talk to whoever is in charge and can make decisions. If you are turned
down, notify the Better Business Bureau.

> The WP was ok at that time, but other mechanics say the Wp should ALWAYS
> be replaced at swap time.


I agree. Water pumps aren't that expensive and can fail much sooner than
108,000 miles, it probably could have been replaced w/o any additional labor.

> Now, at age 73, retired on Social Security, I have no car, and after
> spending over $9,000 with that garage since 2002 to keep it in good shape,
> I'm feeling really cheated.


I don't blame you!

> What do you think? Wouldl a small claims judge think I have a case?


Maybe. The judge probably knows absolutely NOTHING about water pumps, 1989
GXLs, Mazdas OR automobiles. You'll have to bring sufficient evidence to
convince him the pump should have been replaced. Can you bring enough
witnesses (automotive experts) and evidence to prove it to him?


  #3  
Old July 21st 05, 11:18 PM
Frank Berger
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Default


"XS11E" > wrote in message
...
> "egalas" > wrote in:
>
>> My 1989 GXL engine, replaced with factory rebuild at 108,000 went belly
>> up(june 20, 2005) on the freeway due to water pump failure ansubsequent
>> overheat before I could safely stop.
>> The garage elected to retain the original WP at the time of the swap (Feb
>> 2002), which I agrred to with reluctance at the time.
>>
>> Do I have any recourse to get the engine replaced or repaired for free?

>
> First, go to the shop that did the rebuild and discuss it with them, you
> want
> to talk to whoever is in charge and can make decisions. If you are turned
> down, notify the Better Business Bureau.
>
>> The WP was ok at that time, but other mechanics say the Wp should ALWAYS
>> be replaced at swap time.

>
> I agree. Water pumps aren't that expensive and can fail much sooner than
> 108,000 miles, it probably could have been replaced w/o any additional
> labor.
>
>> Now, at age 73, retired on Social Security, I have no car, and after
>> spending over $9,000 with that garage since 2002 to keep it in good
>> shape,
>> I'm feeling really cheated.

>
> I don't blame you!
>
>> What do you think? Wouldl a small claims judge think I have a case?

>
> Maybe. The judge probably knows absolutely NOTHING about water pumps,
> 1989
> GXLs, Mazdas OR automobiles. You'll have to bring sufficient evidence to
> convince him the pump should have been replaced. Can you bring enough
> witnesses (automotive experts) and evidence to prove it to him?
>
>


My own local Mazda dealer does not recommend automatically replacing the
water pump when the timing belt is replaced. It's easy to say with
hindsight in a particular case that it should have been done, but that
doesn't mean it's really a good idea. Do we think my Mazda dealer is trying
to suck more money out of me by giving me bad advice on purpose?


  #4  
Old July 22nd 05, 01:13 AM
XS11E
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Default

"Frank Berger" > wrote in:

> My own local Mazda dealer does not recommend automatically replacing the
> water pump when the timing belt is replaced.


You've not been following the thread, have you? ;-)

> Do we think my Mazda dealer is trying to suck more money out of me by
> giving me bad advice on purpose?


No, but I think he's wrong.

  #5  
Old July 22nd 05, 04:41 PM
Frank Berger
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Posts: n/a
Default


"XS11E" > wrote in message
...
> "Frank Berger" > wrote in:
>
>> My own local Mazda dealer does not recommend automatically replacing the
>> water pump when the timing belt is replaced.

>
> You've not been following the thread, have you? ;-)


I thought there was an analogy between whether to replace the water pump
when replacing the engine and when replacing the timing belt. I guess you
don't think so.



  #6  
Old July 22nd 05, 08:57 PM
XS11E
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Frank Berger" > wrote in:

>
> "XS11E" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Frank Berger" > wrote in:
>>
>>> My own local Mazda dealer does not recommend automatically replacing the
>>> water pump when the timing belt is replaced.

>>
>> You've not been following the thread, have you? ;-)

>
> I thought there was an analogy between whether to replace the water pump
> when replacing the engine and when replacing the timing belt. I guess you
> don't think so.


No, I sure don't. First, replacing the timing belt w/o replacing the water
pump is false economy just like not replacing the valve cover gasket, cam
seals and crank seal. The additional cost is very small compared to what it
will cost if any of these parts fail later, don't ask me how I know that....

Second, the OP said his engine was replaced at 108,000 miles, that's a lot
more miles than the scheduled timing belt replacement and as proven by the
OP, not replacing the water pump at that time was a mistake.

  #7  
Old July 22nd 05, 09:25 PM
pws
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Default

XS11E wrote:

> No, I sure don't. First, replacing the timing belt w/o replacing the water
> pump is false economy just like not replacing the valve cover gasket, cam
> seals and crank seal. The additional cost is very small compared to what it
> will cost if any of these parts fail later, don't ask me how I know that....
>
> Second, the OP said his engine was replaced at 108,000 miles, that's a lot
> more miles than the scheduled timing belt replacement and as proven by the
> OP, not replacing the water pump at that time was a mistake.
>


I agree. FWIW, which isn't much, I am now dealing with a broken 1991
miata with over 120K miles. It never had the timing belt or the water
pump replaced. The water pump is now spewing coolant like a geyser, but
the belt never did have a problem.
I guess I could replace the water pump and re-use the timing belt, after
all, it is only 15 years old. ;-)

I still haven't seen a timing belt break before 100K on a miata. For
peace of mind, I consider 80K a good time to change the belt. At that
point, I wouldn't even consider putting a water pump with 80K miles back
on when they are so relatively inexpensive.

Pat

  #8  
Old July 22nd 05, 10:49 PM
XS11E
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Posts: n/a
Default

pws > wrote in:

> XS11E wrote:


> I still haven't seen a timing belt break before 100K on a miata. For
> peace of mind, I consider 80K a good time to change the belt. At that
> point, I wouldn't even consider putting a water pump with 80K miles back
> on when they are so relatively inexpensive.


Yup. Here's the cost breakdown... the shop I frequent charges about $265
labor for a timing belt job.

http://www.mikes-place.biz/

Sooooo...... that means that if you don't replace the water pump you'll pay
about $365 for a new one instead of $100 if it was done during the belt
replacement.

The same thing applies if the person who owned the car before you didn't
replace the crank seal when the timing belt was replaced. Trust me, I know
this for a fact and so does my bank account!

 




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