So much for hands-free cellphones

Shawn Hearn > wrote in news:srhi-
:

> In article .com>,
> "Harry K" > wrote:
>
>> AP:
>> Portland: A driver talking on a cell phone lost control of her sport
>> utility vehicle, crashed through a gauard rail...and plunged into the
>> Willametter River on Saturday.
>>
>> Later in the article it states she was using a headset and and the
>> woman told detectives that she was talking on her cell phone. A river
>> diver said that "Once I got there she was very disoriented and didn't
>> quite know what had happened".
>>
>> Probably was still yakking as the car hit the river.
>
> Perhaps you're familiar with the old saying "correlation does not
> necessarily imply causality." The key word there is "necessarily."
> Common sense tells us that the woman's cell phone conversation was
> probably a contributing cause to this accident. Certainly, the accident
> did not "cause" the phone conversation to occur and I doubt a credible
> argument could be made that the driver's wearing shoes contributed to
> the accident.
>

I note there was no mention of any involvement by another vehicle,it was a
single-vehicle "accident".
Whether it was veering and overcorrection,or edging off the road onto the
shoulder(and overcorrection),pothole,debrid avoidance,does not matter;she
did not have control of her vehicle *while she was on the phone*.
Her ATTENTION was on her call,not on her driving(where it was supposed to
be).
Thus the phone WAS the -cause- of the crash.
(no "accident",but negligent driving)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

John S. wrote:
> Since she said she was talking on the phone it is a pretty good guess
> that her full attention was not being given to the fancy driving
> technique needed to cross a bridge.

Oh REALLY??? That's NOT what she said:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in683445.shtml

"There's a metal grate over this bridge. I think it was just a
combination of maybe wind and a lot of water. As soon as I went onto
the metal grate, my car started to slide like it was on ice, and it
started to slide into oncoming traffic, which made me way over-correct,
trying to steer away from the oncoming car. As soon as my car hit the
pavement again, it shot me off like a slingshot. My tires were already
turned. So it just shot me off. It happened so quickly." \

Once again you people with some bug up your butt about cell phones
attribute every little thing, and maybe at times even make **** up in
an attempt to demonize an inanimate object.

> The OP didn't post the whole story. I watched an interview of her on
the
> Today show this morning. Her description of the events indicates
that she
> wasn't paying attention because of the cell phone call.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in683445.shtml

She says nothing of the sort:

Melissa says she was on a bridge that heads downtown and was speaking
to her sister on a cell phone but had her hands-free set on. "Both of
my hands were on the wheel and I was very aware of my surroundings.

"There's a metal grate over this bridge. I think it was just a
combination of maybe wind and a lot of water. As soon as I went onto
the metal grate, my car started to slide like it was on ice, and it
started to slide into oncoming traffic, which made me way over-correct,
trying to steer away from the oncoming car. As soon as my car hit the
pavement again, it shot me off like a slingshot. My tires were already
turned. So it just shot me off. It happened so quickly."

"Larry Bud" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> The OP didn't post the whole story. I watched an interview of her on
> the
>> Today show this morning. Her description of the events indicates
> that she
>> wasn't paying attention because of the cell phone call.
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in683445.shtml
>
> She says nothing of the sort:
>
> Melissa says she was on a bridge that heads downtown and was speaking
> to her sister on a cell phone but had her hands-free set on. "Both of
> my hands were on the wheel and I was very aware of my surroundings.
>
> "There's a metal grate over this bridge. I think it was just a
> combination of maybe wind and a lot of water. As soon as I went onto
> the metal grate, my car started to slide like it was on ice, and it
> started to slide into oncoming traffic, which made me way over-correct,
> trying to steer away from the oncoming car. As soon as my car hit the
> pavement again, it shot me off like a slingshot. My tires were already
> turned. So it just shot me off. It happened so quickly."

In other words, she did everything right for crossing wet bridge grating,
right up to the point she drove her car off the bridge.

What, the railing just up and bit her car without warning?

"Larry Bud" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> John S. wrote:
>> Since she said she was talking on the phone it is a pretty good guess
>> that her full attention was not being given to the fancy driving
>> technique needed to cross a bridge.
>
> Oh REALLY??? That's NOT what she said:
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in683445.shtml
>
> "There's a metal grate over this bridge. I think it was just a
> combination of maybe wind and a lot of water. As soon as I went onto
> the metal grate, my car started to slide like it was on ice, and it
> started to slide into oncoming traffic, which made me way over-correct,
> trying to steer away from the oncoming car. As soon as my car hit the
> pavement again, it shot me off like a slingshot. My tires were already
> turned. So it just shot me off. It happened so quickly." \
>
> Once again you people with some bug up your butt about cell phones
> attribute every little thing, and maybe at times even make **** up in
> an attempt to demonize an inanimate object.
>

Obviously nobody is claiming that the cell phone caused the accident. The
facts in this case strongly indicate that her attention was on the cell
phone conversation rather than on the difficult road conditions. Had there
been no cell phone involved, chance are there would have been no accident.
If she were killed (or killed others), would you be so quick to dismiss her
cell phone conversation as a benign behavior?

> And too bad she didn't kill herself.

Too bad? I'm sure if that was one of your family or friends you would think
different. People make mistakes. She doesn't deserve to die just because she
talks on a cell phone while driving.

"Jim Yanik" .> wrote in message
.. .
> "The Office Jet" > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
>> Do you think she quit talking or carried on the conversation as usual?
>>
>
> I'd like to have a recording of the conversation as she went over!

According to the newspaper article, she was discussing dinner plans with her
sister and screamed into the phone as her car went over. Then the phone
went dead.

"Larry Bud" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> John S. wrote:
>> Since she said she was talking on the phone it is a pretty good guess
>> that her full attention was not being given to the fancy driving
>> technique needed to cross a bridge.
>
> Oh REALLY??? That's NOT what she said:
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in683445.shtml
>
> "There's a metal grate over this bridge. I think it was just a
> combination of maybe wind and a lot of water. As soon as I went onto
> the metal grate, my car started to slide like it was on ice, and it
> started to slide into oncoming traffic, which made me way over-correct,
> trying to steer away from the oncoming car. As soon as my car hit the
> pavement again, it shot me off like a slingshot. My tires were already
> turned. So it just shot me off. It happened so quickly."
>
> Once again you people with some bug up your butt about cell phones
> attribute every little thing, and maybe at times even make **** up in
> an attempt to demonize an inanimate object.

Larry, I've driven over that bridge thousands of times, in everything from
shoe leather to bicycle to motorcycle (after midnight, in a rainstorm with a
strong crosswind) to
jellybean car to my SUV. Never had any trouble.

Thousands of people cross the bridge every day without crashing. She swears
she was paying attention but she lost control anyway. Almost the only way
you can skid on that grating is if you try to change lanes while going too
fast.

Harry K wrote:
> AP:
> Portland: A driver talking on a cell phone lost control of her sport
> utility vehicle, crashed through a gauard rail...and plunged into the
> Willametter River on Saturday.

I see a lot of people quick to focus on the cell phone and SUV aspects, but
what about the true cause of the accident?

Metal on the bridge?

I see the state has "fixed" it by posting a warning sign. I have to laugh
whenever I see the idiocy of something like this. Often I see a bump in the
road and the state puts a BUMP sign in front of it. I just picture the
proud roadworkers walking away after pounding the sign in congratulating
themselves on a job well done.

If I were the lady, I'd be going after the state.

> > "There's a metal grate over this bridge. I think it was just a
> > combination of maybe wind and a lot of water. As soon as I went
onto
> > the metal grate, my car started to slide like it was on ice, and it
> > started to slide into oncoming traffic, which made me way
over-correct,
> > trying to steer away from the oncoming car. As soon as my car hit
the
> > pavement again, it shot me off like a slingshot. My tires were
already
> > turned. So it just shot me off. It happened so quickly."
> >
> > Once again you people with some bug up your butt about cell phones
> > attribute every little thing, and maybe at times even make **** up
in
> > an attempt to demonize an inanimate object.
>
> Larry, I've driven over that bridge thousands of times, in everything
from
> shoe leather to bicycle to motorcycle (after midnight, in a rainstorm
with a
> strong crosswind) to
> jellybean car to my SUV. Never had any trouble.
>
> Thousands of people cross the bridge every day without crashing. She
swears
> she was paying attention but she lost control anyway. Almost the
only way
> you can skid on that grating is if you try to change lanes while
going too
> fast.

Thousands of people talk on their cell phone without crashing too.
What's your point? How do you know her cell phone attributed to the
accident any more than her possibly trying to change lanes on the
grating?